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Let down by their countrymen: how our Forces often feel unappreciated

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    So I was reading the Telegraph and I stumbled across this article about how Armed service personnel are often disrespected and I personally think that it is a disgrace, these brave men and women are putting their lives on the line for us.

    I have to ask what is why do people disrespect them? I get that some people are anti-war and think that all wars are about oil and that our brave men and women are pawns but that is no reason to be disrespectful to them.

    What are your opinions TSR? :holmes:

    Article Extract:
    Members of the Armed Forces are suffering abuse and discrimination on Britain’s streets just for wearing their uniforms in public.

    A survey of more than 9,100 servicemen discloses that almost one in five military personnel has been refused service in pubs, hotels and shops because they were in uniform.

    Six per cent have been attacked in the street, while 21 per cent have reported strangers coming up to them and shouting abuse.

    In one case, a member of the Royal Navy was told by his son’s head teacher to stop wearing his uniform on the school run because it “upset the parents”.
    Continued here.
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    One RAF recruiter, a member of one of the focus groups, said: “Working in Leicester as a recruiter I make a point of walking to and from work in my uniform, and it’s mixed. I have people running up and screaming 'baby killer’ at me. I’ve had people spit at me.

    Well....i mean hardly surprising in Leicester is it? A large portion of their demographic aren't generally the type of people who support our military.

    For the abuse part lets face it, there are communities in the UK that do view our soldiers in an extremely negative light and they aren't afraid of voicing these views because nothing negative will happen to them because of it.
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    These are the sort of immagrints I don't want in this country who do they think they are if they hate Britain and it's culture some much why ****ing live here piss off back home and support your "mulim brothers". Even if they don't agree with wars in Afghanistan and the like don't dare be so ****ing disrespectful to the people who are being killed in them or who have seen friends killed keep it to your bloody self or get out of the country.
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    I see the negative response team has started I suppose you are one of those immagrints who despise British culture or perhaps a left wing self loather
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    I personally think that it is a disgrace, these brave men and women are putting their lives on the line for us.
    Yes, they're putting they're lives on the line, but is it really for us?
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    (Original post by Shabalala)
    These are the sort of immagrints I don't want in this country who do they think they are if they hate Britain and it's culture some much why ****ing live here piss off back home and support your "mulim brothers". Even if they don't agree with wars in Afghanistan and the like don't dare be so ****ing disrespectful to the people who are being killed in them or who have seen friends killed keep it to your bloody self or get out of the country.
    That's a pretty thick post. I suspect the type of people who are opposed to the army are left wingers and educated middle class folks as much as muslims.

    I think service people should be shown respect for putting their lives on the line, but I detest the view that they are seen by default as heroic. Heroism to me is going above and beyond the call of duty. Spitting at them etc is totally unwarranted and of course they ought to be shown respect, but by the same token they should not expect to be immune from public opinion in what is an extremely emotionally and politically charged job. While it is admirable to submit to doing whatever is asked of you, you could also say that is quite a morally questionable thing to do - say if you as a result of orders were to kill a child. In practice they do not seem to be defending the UK so much as attacking other countries and communities. The bravery of the people in signing up is not questioned, but they are fair game for reasoned criticism, especially someone like a recruiter. I can also see why (though I disagrre with) a headteacher would dislike having a person whose job it is to shoot people on school grounds

    It must suck to be the pawn of politicians and of public opinion, but some of the things which happen in the services (from friends' anecdotes, more so the Army) are quite unpleasant. The stat about servicemen getting more respect in America doesn't surprise me at all - they are treated as idols in public opinion, but the US military has a horrible record of consistently breaking its own codes of conduct and of killing (murdering some would say) innocents.
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    I do feel for the soldiers I really do. The thing is, any reports on them these days is always negative and gives off negative stereotypes of them such as soldiers mistreating civilians. It IS disgusting, and the soldiers themselves are appalled at their comrades for doing such things, but the majority should not be tarred with the same brush as a minority. You see soldiers with lost limbs all the time who have given and risked everything to ensure the safety of our country and provide us all with a better future and environment to raise families in. We owe a lot of thanks to the soldiers who have risked it all for us. Even if one person goes up to a soldier and says a simple 'thank you' or raises money for them via 'Help for Heroes' etc then morale would increase dramatically. What about those soldiers who come away mentally harmed? That storyline with Gary Windass in Coronation Street demonstrated that soldiers are willing to do anything to protect us even if it meant harm to themselves. These soldiers are protecting our freedom. The view of British soldiers has never changed; independence, respect and freedom. That is something worth deploying our troops for in my opinion
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    (Original post by BigBadSaint)
    That's a pretty thick post. I suspect the type of people who are opposed to the army are left wingers and educated middle class folks as much as muslims.

    I think service people should be shown respect for putting their lives on the line, but I detest the view that they are seen by default as heroic. Heroism to me is going above and beyond the call of duty. Spitting at them etc is totally unwarranted and of course they ought to be shown respect, but by the same token they should not expect to be immune from public opinion in what is an extremely emotionally and politically charged job. While it is admirable to submit to doing whatever is asked of you, you could also say that is quite a morally questionable thing to do - say if you as a result of orders were to kill a child. In practice they do not seem to be defending the UK so much as attacking other countries and communities. The bravery of the people in signing up is not questioned, but they are fair game for reasoned criticism, especially someone like a recruiter. I can also see why (though I disagrre with) a headteacher would dislike having a person whose job it is to shoot people on school grounds

    It must suck to be the pawn of politicians and of public opinion, but some of the things which happen in the services (from friends' anecdotes, more so the Army) are quite unpleasant. The stat about servicemen getting more respect in America doesn't surprise me at all - they are treated as idols in public opinion, but the US military has a horrible record of consistently breaking its own codes of conduct and of killing (murdering some would say) innocents.
    If you think abusing or questioning random soldiers in the street is acceptable it says allot about you. I can guarentee 99.9% of people who have abused them in the street are Muslim (or supporters of the IRA in Scotland and Northern Ireland) like I said if you don't agree with the British foreign policy then bring it up in a civil way don't abuse someone in the street who does what they are told to by the goverment any attempt to justify it is pathetic. The School teacher can **** right off the parent has the right to wear whatever set of clothing they want if some parents are offended that's their problem. The British army's job is to shoot members of Al Qaeda and the Taliban who support them so they can't attack the the British public and the western world in general. Afghanistan was a place where Al Qaeda had free reign to do what they wanted and plan attacks on us before NATO moved in, The vast majority of civillians killed in Afghanistan are killed by the Taliban and before the Soldiers moved in the system the Taliban enforced was medievil and barbaric anyway women are treated as sub human and basic human rights didn't exist if the Taliban wanted to kill you they did, yes every now and again an innocent person get's killed by the British/US forces but it's war it happens unfortunetley they don't set out to kill children unless the odd mentally ill soldier flips out.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...is-family.html

    are you telling me the group responsible for the type of thing are innocent and that British soldiers are wrong to get rid of them.
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    (Original post by Guitarded)
    Yes, they're putting they're lives on the line, but is it really for us?
    I'd say so, they put their lives on the line for us, democracy and the people that we go in to help.

    Soliders also do a lot of humanitarian work which is from the looks of it never reported, it is just the bad stuff that is reported and that is wrong. If people knew what soldiers did aside from fighting for the civil liberties we take for granted then I think that they would not be disrespectful!!!!

    Maybe I am bias as I have many family members in the military here and in France... :dontknow:
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    I don't know what's going on in Iraq or Afghanistan. I don't know the true origins and allegiance of "Al Qaeda" or "Taliban" or how these terrorist groups just magically sprung out of the earth a couple of decades ago. Nor do I know if our dear governments care about a single life lost, soldier, civilian or otherwise, in these so called wars. But what I do know is that our soldiers are ALWAYS putting their lives at risk and they're doing it for US (although inadvertently helping line the pockets of bureacrats and aristocrats in the US...), they're doing it because they genuinely believe they are fighting for the country. I doubt any of them would willingly kill an Afghanistani/Iraqi civilian. I just don't want to believe that.
    Anyway, our soldiers deserve our respect.
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    No one appreciates a bunch of child murders, rapers and torturers. To feel appreciated, you'd think the Brits were mental. Thankfully that is not the case.
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    (Original post by Shabalala)
    If you think abusing or questioning random soldiers in the street is acceptable it says allot about you. I can guarentee 99.9% of people who have abused them in the street are Muslim (or supporters of the IRA in Scotland and Northern Ireland) like I said if you don't agree with the British foreign policy then bring it up in a civil way don't abuse someone in the street who does what they are told to by the goverment any attempt to justify it is pathetic. The School teacher can **** right off the parent has the right to wear whatever set of clothing they want if some parents are offended that's their problem. The British army's job is to shoot members of Al Qaeda and the Taliban who support them so they can't attack the western world, yes every now and again an innocent person get's killed but it's war it happens unfortunetley they don't set out to kill children unless the odd mentally ill soldier flips out.

    I don't think I said abusing soldiers on the street was acceptable..? No, actually you can't guarantee 99.9 % of he people abusing them on the street are muslim, anti-military sentiment has a long and distinguished history in Britain spread across the entire demographic, rich or poor, catholic or protestant, black or white. You are pretty much suggesting that anyone who dislikes the military or disagrees with its methods or conduct is an enemy (either by association with 'brother muslims' or with 'brother republicans'). This is stupid, and probably ill founded given that it is unlikely many Muslims in the UK empathise more with Iraqis/Afghans than with the UK and most catholic scots have outgrown political identification with the IRA.

    The school head is in my view entirely within their rights to ask service people not to wear uniform on school grounds - it is their school and they should run it as they see fit. Like I said, I don't think that is cool but I can see why they didn't want them.

    Unfortunately it isn't every 'now and again' that an innocent person gets killed - helicopter attacks, mortars, sniping and drone attacks have all seen dead bodies of people who just didn't want to be involved.

    We know that at least 100,000 and more like 150,000 Iraqi innocents have died since 2003, the number by coalition troops is probably a very low percentage but in absolute terms, unacceptable. See this video for an insight into US military operation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6hp8HMstkE.

    If the British Army's job is to keep us safe what on earth have they been doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? But I will take your point about not holding soldiers responsible for foreign policy. However, if it is their job to wage war against the Taliban, then bluntly why are they doing an inadequate job of it? Why are so many innocent civilians (and former allies) being killed by mortar or drone strikes? Why is Al-Quaeda, the threat we were going in to eviscerate, stronger now than before we went in? Why are they shooting Afghans at all given that Al Quaeda got the hell out of Dodge years ago. Why are coalition soldiers (I know not ours) urinating on dead bodies?

    To the point, I think soldiers should be admired for making a brave choice in enlisting, but they shouldn't be automatically venerated and in the same way it is legitimate to respect someone's motives for joining (queen and country etc) I think it is entirely fair to criticize someone who has chosen as a career to shoot someone. In the case of the recruiter it seems fair to also criticize military strategy and operational deficiencies.


    EDIT- The above point about humanitarian work was well made and the same would go IMO for peace-keeping, but that isn't the prime function of the military .
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    So I was reading the Telegraph and I stumbled across this article about how Armed service personnel are often disrespected and I personally think that it is a disgrace, these brave men and women are putting their lives on the line for us.

    I have to ask what is why do people disrespect them? I get that some people are anti-war and think that all wars are about oil and that our brave men and women are pawns but that is no reason to be disrespectful to them.

    What are your opinions TSR? :holmes:

    Article Extract:


    Continued here.
    All the wars today are about oil or tactical position, how was Afghanistan or Iraq a threat to the UK for the UK to have the right to attack them. Even if they had nuclear weapons, they could never get them past the middle east so why should the UK feel threatened, and its not like the UK dooesnt have 200 nukes right now. The UK is much more a threat to them that they will ever be to the UK. About disrespecting Armed services, I agree they shouldnt be disrespected they are forced on to the battlefields and dont get any of the oil revenue.
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    (Original post by Shabalala)
    If you think abusing or questioning random soldiers in the street is acceptable it says allot about you. I can guarentee 99.9% of people who have abused them in the street are Muslim (or supporters of the IRA in Scotland and Northern Ireland) like I said if you don't agree with the British foreign policy then bring it up in a civil way don't abuse someone in the street who does what they are told to by the goverment any attempt to justify it is pathetic. The School teacher can **** right off the parent has the right to wear whatever set of clothing they want if some parents are offended that's their problem. The British army's job is to shoot members of Al Qaeda and the Taliban who support them so they can't attack the the British public and the western world in general. Afghanistan was a place where Al Qaeda had free reign to do what they wanted and plan attacks on us before NATO moved in, The vast majority of civillians killed in Afghanistan are killed by the Taliban and before the Soldiers moved in the system the Taliban enforced was medievil and barbaric anyway women are treated as sub human and basic human rights didn't exist if the Taliban wanted to kill you they did, yes every now and again an innocent person get's killed by the British/US forces but it's war it happens unfortunetley they don't set out to kill children unless the odd mentally ill soldier flips out.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...is-family.html

    are you telling me the group responsible for the type of thing are innocent and that British soldiers are wrong to get rid of them.

    I think the Taliban are abhorrent, but what our soldiers are fighting against isn't really what I'm getting it. If you sign up to kill people if ordered to do so, it is entirely valid to ask them why, and even more so in a context in which the legitimating factor (in defence of the UK) is so seriously in question.

    n.b. I could just stick a link of that soldier who went on a killing spree up, and then you could stick one of 9/11 up but that would be missing the point.
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    No one appreciates a bunch of child murders, rapers and torturers. To feel appreciated, you'd think the Brits were mental. Thankfully that is not the case.
    I think your profile pic says enough about your views.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    I'd say so, they put their lives on the line for us, democracy and the people that we go in to help.

    Soliders also do a lot of humanitarian work which is from the looks of it never reported, it is just the bad stuff that is reported and that is wrong. If people knew what soldiers did aside from fighting for the civil liberties we take for granted then I think that they would not be disrespectful!!!!

    Maybe I am bias as I have many family members in the military here and in France... :dontknow:
    Democracy, you are free to vote once we kill you.
    Seriously this glorification of the military as some sort of "heroic service" needs to stop, this isn't 1942 and the world war(the last actual threat to Britain) finished ~70 years ago.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Democracy, you are free to vote once we kill you.
    Seriously this glorification of the military as some sort of "heroic service" needs to stop, this isn't 1942 and the world war(the last actual threat to Britain) finished ~70 years ago.

    This! 'Help For Heroes'? 'Our Boys'? Get out. Not that I'm against donating money to aid soldiers, and having tabloids praise them probably does help their morale a bit, but I think it's wrong to label every soldier as a 'hero'. I'm sure there are plenty of heroes in the army, and there's no doubt they're putting their lives on the line, but I'm sure there's also quite a handful who go with little more than the desire to "shoot some ragheads".

    And the soldiers do NOT serve US. They are not 'Our Boys' as The Sun likes to call them. They swear their allegiance to the Queen (not that she has much power over them), and serve a bunch of warmongering rich guys in suits, mostly over in the U.S.
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    Why attack soldiers? They only follow instructions, they have to, they cant go against them. Once they've joined the army they're just like a pawn in a game of chess. If anyone, it's the generals/commanders and politicians that deserve this
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    No one appreciates a bunch of child murders, rapers and torturers. To feel appreciated, you'd think the Brits were mental. Thankfully that is not the case.
    No one likes a people who treat their females like property, marrying them off to their cousins at 12 years old, throwing acid in their faces when they resist male advances, even burying little girls alive..because they'd rather have a boy. Then they go and plant car bombs in civilian marketplaces and kill hundreds of people, or fly planes into buildings and kill thousands.

    See...it's easy to stereotype a group of people. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    One RAF recruiter, a member of one of the focus groups, said: “Working in Leicester as a recruiter I make a point of walking to and from work in my uniform, and it’s mixed. I have people running up and screaming 'baby killer’ at me. I’ve had people spit at me.

    Well....i mean hardly surprising in Leicester is it? A large portion of their demographic aren't generally the type of people who support our military.

    For the abuse part lets face it, there are communities in the UK that do view our soldiers in an extremely negative light and they aren't afraid of voicing these views because nothing negative will happen to them because of it.
    Not surprised our troops were abused in Leicester, which is packed with foreigners of muslim demographic. Note 'baby killer'- lmao.

    Abusing a man because of what he is wearing and who he is, yet that is what muslims go on about happening to them all the time.

    This article and story is disgusting and shows the joke the UK has become.
Updated: May 13, 2012
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