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Let down by their countrymen: how our Forces often feel unappreciated

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    (Original post by Drewski)
    The Government does not run for you. It should run for the people. And should make decisions it decides are in the best interest of the most people for the longest time.
    That's better.

    (Original post by Drewski)
    It is not immune to being wrong. No human is. Can you honestly say you've never made a mistake ever?
    It's also not immune to lying and deceiving.

    (Original post by Drewski)
    I'm fairly confident that, one or two decisions/idiots aside, that if the Government had had a crystal ball in 2001, prior to Afghanistan and in 2003, prior to Iraq, that we wouldn't have been involved in either. I cannot say for sure - and neither can you.
    No... pretty much every government official, in particular Tony Blair, has said they have no regrets with how either war turned out, and would definitely do it again. And I'm sure they wouldn't mind another one. Iran or Syria maybe?

    (Original post by Drewski)
    Anyway, I'm done. You and I will never agree and will simply go round and round in circles. I'm happy with the path I took. And no amount of people like you will ever change that.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Yeah that was a scummy thing for those Celtic fans to do.
    I think it was inappropriate to demand Celtic FC wear a poppy on their shirts. The British Army and Ireland have a difficult relationship - particularly regards things like the Bloody Sunday murders (where still nobody has been properly prosecuted for gunning down a peaceful protest). When British troops are being hailed as unconditional heroes at the poppy time of year it offends the families of those innocent people murdered by British Paratroopers in Derry for example. It's a delicate issue but the long and the short of it is that wearing the poppy should be a personal choice and shouldn't be forced on a club like Celtic.

    At the end of the day - the sooner the british govt stop sending it's employees to get killed in foreign countries the sooner we can stop having this boring ****ing argument!
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    (Original post by Shabalala)
    These are the sort of immagrints I don't want in this country who do they think they are if they hate Britain and it's culture some much why ****ing live here piss off back home and support your "mulim brothers". Even if they don't agree with wars in Afghanistan and the like don't dare be so ****ing disrespectful to the people who are being killed in them or who have seen friends killed keep it to your bloody self or get out of the country.
    FFS concentrate less on the swearing and more on the spelling you illiterate ****
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    (Original post by HARRY PUTAH)
    Stop beating about the bush.

    They're muslims and asian ****hole areas that do this.
    Wonder why? Could it be the fact that Britain has attacked three muslim majority nations in the last decade? Hmm, I think it could be!

    It isn't exclusively either, as has been mentioned, similar sentiments have been uttered in British cities with large "Irish" populations..such as Glasgow. Not that I agree with the means of protest at all...
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    (Original post by HARRY PUTAH)
    Stop beating about the bush.

    They're muslims and asian ****hole areas that do this.
    If you want us to love your stupid army then stop invading foreign countries like Iraq.

    Until then the "brave" British army can go and **** itself..

    here are our heroes beating up some Iraqi kids..

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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Democracy, you are free to vote once we kill you.
    Seriously this glorification of the military as some sort of "heroic service" needs to stop, this isn't 1942 and the world war(the last actual threat to Britain) finished ~70 years ago.
    Absolutely correct..however the it is in the gov. interest to perpetuate this sense of unquestioning for the British military as it perpetuates support for their adventurism..

    (Original post by Drewski)
    Handily ignoring, that is, that the grandson of the Head of State has served in the war and very publicly expressed his desire to return...
    Yes..I am sure Harry was in loads of danger and it wasn't all a massive cynical PR campaign.

    I don't really see why you expect anything but "disrespect" to be honest for partaking in the likes of Iraq? The Germans of 1945 were "just following orders" after all..
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    (Original post by Medstudentlondon.)
    If you want us to love your stupid army then stop invading foreign countries like Iraq.

    Until then the "brave" British army can go and **** itself..

    here are our heroes beating up some Iraqi kids..

    1) The British army doesn't just up and go invade a country where and when it pleases, it's ordered to by the government.
    2) The actions in that video portray a minority of the British forces. Don't post that as part of an argument against the British forces because it looks daft.

    Now go away and come back when you actually have a credible argument.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    1) The British army doesn't just up and go invade a country where and when it pleases, it's ordered to by the government.
    2) The actions in that video portray a minority of the British forces. Don't post that as part of an argument against the British forces because it looks daft.

    Now go away and come back when you actually have a credible argument.
    The British military are overglorified killers who do the government's dirty job whether we like it or not.
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    (Original post by Organ)
    The British military are overglorified killers who do the government's dirty job whether we like it or not.
    :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

    I'm sorry were you saying something?
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    (Original post by Dubliner)
    I think it was inappropriate to demand Celtic FC wear a poppy on their shirts. The British Army and Ireland have a difficult relationship - particularly regards things like the Bloody Sunday murders (where still nobody has been properly prosecuted for gunning down a peaceful protest). When British troops are being hailed as unconditional heroes at the poppy time of year it offends the families of those innocent people murdered by British Paratroopers in Derry for example. It's a delicate issue but the long and the short of it is that wearing the poppy should be a personal choice and shouldn't be forced on a club like Celtic.

    At the end of the day - the sooner the british govt stop sending it's employees to get killed in foreign countries the sooner we can stop having this boring ****ing argument!
    It probably wasn't the wisest of moves but still that reaction from those fans was scummy.
    And frankly that's the whole point of the millitary. Well not to get killed but to do certain things and if it means taking lives then so be it, whether it be peacekeeping or even getting aid to people that need it. It's highly unlikely that all the armed forces will be kept in country and never leave.

    Especially not the more elite regiments who do specific work often precision delicate missions.
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    No one appreciates a bunch of child murders, rapers and torturers. To feel appreciated, you'd think the Brits were mental. Thankfully that is not the case.
    Coming out with all the Islamic crap once again. it is a war civilians will get killed particularly those who support the taliban!
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    1) The British army doesn't just up and go invade a country where and when it pleases, it's ordered to by the government.
    2) The actions in that video portray a minority of the British forces. Don't post that as part of an argument against the British forces because it looks daft.

    Now go away and come back when you actually have a credible argument.
    British troops in Iraq are all scum who are occupying another country, the scum who shoot dead civilians and freedom fighters, who torture people and beat up kids are the icing on the cake. Mass war crimes were commited both in Afganistan and Iraq. Rape, Mass murder, and torture which all were authorized by Bush, Blair and cheney. Liz Cheney herself admits rape was to be used to scare the people. Blackwaters employee said that they would "prostitute young Iraqis girls for a dollar" Bush knew about it so did Eric Prince the owner of the group. Another Blackwaters employee claimed the 4 civilians killed in Faluja were infact killed by blackwaters to mass murder civilians there. Which American army did by killing anyone on side. There are stories after stories for mass murder, rape , and torture.

    How dare you send your army to invade other countries and then expect my support. **** off!
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    (Original post by patrickinator)
    Coming out with all the Islamic crap once again. it is a war civilians will get killed particularly those who support the taliban!
    Get out of Afghanistan then.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)

    They serve the country therefore they serve us by proxy.
    Who says they serve the country? They serve those who control them - those with the money, and power, many of which happen to be British. They have the British flag on their uniforms, giving anyone naive enough to believe it the impression that they fight for our country like they did in WWII. But do they really fight for the interests of the British people at the moment?
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    So I was reading the Telegraph and I stumbled across this article about how Armed service personnel are often disrespected and I personally think that it is a disgrace, these brave men and women are putting their lives on the line for us.

    I have to ask what is why do people disrespect them? I get that some people are anti-war and think that all wars are about oil and that our brave men and women are pawns but that is no reason to be disrespectful to them.

    What are your opinions TSR? :holmes:

    Article Extract:


    Continued here.
    I agree. People don't seem to care about the soldiers who protect us anymore. This doesn't mean I approve of war or think that it is all for the right reasons, but that is no excuse to disregard the sacrifice they make. I think this is just a general reflection of the lack of respect and apathy rampant in todays society.
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    Isn't help for heroes the biggest charity in the UK? I know very few people who don't support soldiers despite many of the same people not supporting the wars they fight in.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    It probably wasn't the wisest of moves but still that reaction from those fans was scummy.
    And frankly that's the whole point of the millitary. Well not to get killed but to do certain things and if it means taking lives then so be it, whether it be peacekeeping or even getting aid to people that need it. It's highly unlikely that all the armed forces will be kept in country and never leave.

    Especially not the more elite regiments who do specific work often precision delicate missions.
    I don't think I'm referring to things like "peacekeeping" and "getting aid" mate..

    and if it means taking lives then so be it
    Wtf? Are you trying to justify all the innocent people killed in things like bloody sunday murders?
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    (Original post by Guitarded)
    Who says they serve the country? They serve those who control them - those with the money, and power, many of which happen to be British. They have the British flag on their uniforms, giving anyone naive enough to believe it the impression that they fight for our country like they did in WWII. But do they really fight for the interests of the British people at the moment?
    They serve the government and the Queen who represents the country, they represent the country when on missions and during campaigns. They do represent the country whether you like it or not. Whether they actually fight for our country is debatable but they fight in the name of our country, representing our countrying.

    Whether they fight for the interests of British people is irrelevant in relation to that, that's a seperate issue.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    They serve the government and the Queen who represents the country, they represent the country when on missions and during campaigns. They do represent the country whether you like it or not. Whether they actually fight for our country is debatable but they fight in the name of our country, representing our countrying.

    Whether they fight for the interests of British people is irrelevant in relation to that, that's a seperate issue.
    It's the issue I was complaining about in the first place. They represent our country, but on the whole they do not fight for it's people, and a huge percentage of the population (including the army) and the media seem to be praising them for putting their lives on the line for us, as if it's in our interests.
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    (Original post by Medstudentlondon.)
    British troops in Iraq are all scum who are occupying another country, the scum who shoot dead civilians and freedom fighters, who torture people and beat up kids are the icing on the cake. Mass war crimes were commited both in Afganistan and Iraq. Rape, Mass murder, and torture which all were authorized by Bush, Blair and cheney. Liz Cheney herself admits rape was to be used to scare the people. Blackwaters employee said that they would "prostitute young Iraqis girls for a dollar" Bush knew about it so did Eric Prince the owner of the group. Another Blackwaters employee claimed the 4 civilians killed in Faluja were infact killed by blackwaters to mass murder civilians there. Which American army did by killing anyone on side. There are stories after stories for mass murder, rape , and torture.
    So why don't you call for Tony Blair, Dubya and teh Cheney's to be tried? They are the ones that instigated all that. And actually those things you mentioned happened on a reasonably small scale. For the most part the British army acted responsibly and professionally, patrolling, using hearts and minds techniques and doing their best to only engage enemy combatents, not to mention doing their best to keep civililian casualties to a minimum.
    For the most part, that is what they have done and still do so the idea that the British army and millitary is some sort of SS/Gestapo is just stupid.

    How dare you send your army to invade other countries and then expect my support. **** off!
    :lol: Ok babycakes, whatever you say *headpat*


    (Original post by Dubliner)
    I don't think I'm referring to things like "peacekeeping" and "getting aid" mate.
    Peacekeeping is part of what they do though, which is why the idea of all troops coming home and staying here is unlikely. Our troops are part of the UN forces that deploy around the world to peacekeep and provide aid.


    Wtf? Are you trying to justify all the innocent people killed in things like bloody sunday murders?
    :rolleyes: No I'm not as it happens. Don't look for things that aren't there. I'm specifically talking about those that are genuine targets.
Updated: May 13, 2012
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