[Cyanohydrin]

Pathetic people. I sincerely hope they are decapitated by oars this time.

[wibletg]

What an absolute nutjob.

[Willez]

(Original post by wibletg)
What an absolute nutjob.

They're all nut jobs. It's quite frankly pathetic.

[wibletg]

(Original post by Willez)
They're all nut jobs. It's quite frankly pathetic.

Yeah.

I read his blog and there's a bunch of comments on there that definitely lessened my faith in humanity from idiots with similar viewpoints.

[lopterton]

It certainly takes two sides to have any war, including class war.

It's interesting how quite a few people who oppose the protests have said they would rather have the protestors killed than let them get away with disrupting the rowing.

That's extreme language. Even if it's meant as a joke (and I suspect by some it might not be) it's a pretty damned extreme one. Both sides are using extreme language.

There's another article in the Tab now: "Take your class war home".
Ian Bone's blog is here. Say what you like about him, but he seems to be allowing comments from both sides of this...er...debate?...conflict?. ..difference of opinion?

[Drapetomanic]

(Original post by Chumbaniya)
I agree with everything you say about educational inequality, but the 'animal rights' protest is really quite far-fetched. It's an entirely ordinary case of an aggressive animal disrupting a commonly used public space, and if it didn't have anything to do with the university it wouldn't even be a story. I could probably understand if the swan was killed, but it was simply moved and had its wings clipped. Every day thousands of mice die in traps, thousands of cattle are killed for meat and thousands of ants are squashed underfoot - relocating a swan could only be seen as worrisome to people with deeply warped senses of perspective.

Maybe you're right. On further reading I saw that the swan was targeting larger boats with motors, so it could be putting itself in danger. I guess the wing clipping isn't painful? Although, I would say that the swan is acting naturally in its natural habitat, public space or not.

I'd also just mention that I do object to the unnecessary suffering of animals in the meat and cosmetics injury. However, in this case, it seems like minimal suffering was caused.

[Chumbaniya]

(Original post by lopterton)
Say what you like about him, but he seems to be allowing comments from both sides of this...er...debate?...conflict?. ..difference of opinion?

I think this is what confuses me about the idea of a 'class war' against Cambridge students - there isn't a conflict as far as one 'side' is concerned. If anyone has the idea that Cambridge students sit around talking about how much they hate the lower classes, they're staggeringly ignorant. In fact, in my experience Cambridge students are much more politically aware than the populace in general, and tend to average out noticeably left of centre.

If those involved in the protest had made the effort to actually understand Cambridge University students instead of forming an opinion based on tabloid-driven nonsense and out-of-date stereotypes, they'd find a group of young people with both the will and the knowledge to have an intelligent discourse about financial and educational inequality in Britain.

[lopterton]

(Original post by Chumbaniya)
I think this is what confuses me about the idea of a 'class war' against Cambridge students - there isn't a conflict as far as one 'side' is concerned. If anyone has the idea that Cambridge students sit around talking about how much they hate the lower classes, they're staggeringly ignorant. In fact, in my experience Cambridge students are much more politically aware than the populace in general, and tend to average out noticeably left of centre.

If those involved in the protest had made the effort to actually understand Cambridge University students instead of forming an opinion based on tabloid-driven nonsense and out-of-date stereotypes, they'd find a group of young people with both the will and the knowledge to have an intelligent discourse about financial and educational inequality in Britain.

I hope this isn't directed at me! I agree with you that there isn't a conflict between the lower orders and all Cambridge students. I was just remarking on the fact that here on TSR, in the comments on Ian Bone's blog, on the Cambridge Tab website, and in the bar at my College, some people have said they would rather the protestors are killed than they be successful in disrupting the rowing. I do not think for one moment that that is a typical view among Cambridge students. It certainly is not typical among the Cambridge students I know.

However, it is a view that some people have expressed, and it is extreme, even if it's meant as a 'joke'.

You may accuse Ian Bone of mistakenly generalising about Cambridge students, although I'm not wholly sure that's fair. Perhaps he does on occasions. But you too are mistakenly generalising. I don't think 'intelligent discourse' is sufficient, but would hope you could agree that some Cambridge students do not wish to have an 'intelligent discourse' on the matter of inequality, and think it's OK to say that they hope protestors get killed if they try to disrupt the rowing.

It's interesting that anarchists seem to be teaming up with animal-rights protestors, because the (minority!) attitude I'm talking about is reminiscent of what I've heard some foxhunters say.

[Chumbaniya]

(Original post by lopterton)
I hope this isn't directed at me! I agree with you that there isn't a conflict between the lower orders and all Cambridge students. I was just remarking on the fact that here on TSR, in the comments on Ian Bone's blog, on the Cambridge Tab website, and in the bar at my College, some people have said they would rather the protestors are killed than they be successful in disrupting the rowing. I do not think for one moment that that is a typical view among Cambridge students. It certainly is not typical among the Cambridge students I know.

However, it is a view that some people have expressed, and it is extreme, even if it's meant as a 'joke'.

You may accuse Ian Bone of mistakenly generalising about Cambridge students, although I'm not wholly sure that's fair. Perhaps he does on occasions. But you too are mistakenly generalising. I don't think 'intelligent discourse' is sufficient, but would hope you could agree that some Cambridge students do not wish to have an 'intelligent discourse' on the matter of inequality, and think it's OK to say that they hope protestors get killed if they try to disrupt the rowing.

It's interesting that anarchists seem to be teaming up with animal-rights protestors, because the (minority!) attitude I'm talking about is reminiscent of what I've heard some foxhunters say.

I wasn't directing my accusations of ignorance at you - they're intended to apply to the protestors.

I don't think it's wise to read a lot into comments found online - on the internet you can find people of any group you like wishing death upon people of any other group. And students talking that sort of nonsense in college bars is no more significant than people down the pub wishing death upon bankers, lawyers, or whatever profession is currently unpopular. It isn't a serious aspect of the debate. Unpleasant as it is, this is the sort of background noise to which any issue brought into the public domain in the modern world will take place.

I just find the whole protest so poorly conceived. If people wish to protest inequality, they should do so where inequality exists. The disproportionate number of privately educated students at Cambridge is a function of a two tier system at secondary school level - Cambridge selects the students it feels are the best, and it's unfortunate that private schools educate children far better than the majority of state schools. If state schools started educating children as well as private schools, and made attempts to banish the myths surrounding Cambridge, you'd find that the balance in student numbers would almost instantly leap towards something more reasonable. Certainly there's no evidence I'm aware of that, amongst students with the required grades who actually apply, Cambridge has any preference for privately educated candidates over state educated.

Some Cambridge students have unsavoury views about class, but so does a proportion of society at large. The fact that they happen to be at Cambridge has very little to do with this - blame their upbringing, not the university they happen to attend.

[lopterton]

(Original post by Chumbaniya)
Some Cambridge students have unsavoury views about class, but so does a proportion of society at large. The fact that they happen to be at Cambridge has very little to do with this - blame their upbringing, not the university they happen to attend.

Let's not forget to blame them themselves, as well as whoever has contributed to their upbringing in such a way as to encourage, reinforce, or condone such views.

I've heard two Trinity fellows make disgusting remarks about certain new colleges (describing all students there as "unable to think", apparently deduced simply from the fact that they are there), and know a maths fellow (not sure which college, or even if he's at one) who frequently uses the word "chav". There are others from posh backgrounds who are much more human, taking people as they find them, and being well-meaning towards the world at large.

In recent news, the "Library Whispers" networking site for university students in Cambridge has been taken down, because of bullying and comments such as "Just spat on a working-class person". (That link goes to the Daily Mail article about this.)

Some true class warriors made this video of a "chav hunt":

[TheUnbeliever]

Great. Now demonstrate that you're doing something other than cherry-picking anecdotes which support your cause and you might have an argument. Otherwise, I can say that I have never heard nor myself uttered such nonsense in twelve years of education in a private school or my three years here - but I have had rocks or bottles slung at me on more than one occasion because I was identifiable as a private school pupil - and have it form a rebuttal of equal strength to your posts so far. Are there those who will spout vitriol? Of course there are. If you take any one horizontal slice through society by almost any metric, you'll find horrific things being said about the others, but I'm far from convinced that Cambridge in any way institutionally concentrates such discourse.

[around]

(Original post by lopterton)
I've heard two Trinity fellows make disgusting remarks about certain new colleges (describing all students there as "unable to think", apparently deduced simply from the fact that they are there), and know a maths fellow (not sure which college, or even if he's at one) who frequently uses the word "chav".

i fail to see the outrage