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Doctors on Strike

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  • View Poll Results: Are doctors justified in going for industrial action
    No, not at all
    27
    39.13%
    Yes, but only limited industrial action not affecting emergency work
    28
    40.58%
    Yes, and I would support full strike action
    14
    20.29%
    Meh....
    0
    0%

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    Whenever doctors goes on strike its cost too much to society, lots of problems comes whenever these types of strikes happened in the society.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    One day strikes (regardless of profession) are ineffective and only result in frustrating the general public and placing a massive burden on doctors who choose to work.

    And of course, because the vast majority of the public have no idea what being a doctor is like, all the government needs to do is misrepresent the profession by whipping up a frenzy over how the "majority" of doctors earn six figure salaries (with help from friends at News International of course) and then any sympathy the public had would be turned into misdirected anger.
    one day strikes aren't suposed to to 'effective' as such, they are merely used as a show of strength, flex the muscles if you wish.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    You sound like the perfect example of a clueless member of the general public (see above).

    Your final comment in particular is unbelievably moronic. Have you not visited your local GP's surgery lately and seen all the posters telling patients not to ask for antibiotics? Or couldn't you handle slummin' it with the plebs in the waiting room?
    And you are incredibly condescending in most of your posts. It all evens out.
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    (Original post by Jackso)
    And you are incredibly condescending in most of your posts. It all evens out.
    People who work in medicine like to think of themselves as superior to everybody else, I know. There is no other profession where they are such a bunch of self righteous ****ers.
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    The decision whether to go on strike is one that I think few doctors will take lightly. There is a reason why there hasn't been a strike in such a long time and that is that most doctors take their commitment to their patients seriously (however the media might potray us). I know that personally I am still torn as to whether or not I will strike. I completely support the reasons for striking and a do agree that other methods have been tried and have failed. However I don't really want to strike as it is going to negatively effect patient care and I have always tried my hardest to do my best for my patients. I honestly haven't decided how I am going to vote when the ballot comes through my door and it is something I am going to have to do quite a lot of thinking about before I finally decide.

    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Well, the main reason I objected to the prescription was that in every case it was given after less than 5 minutes of conversation with the patient (these were all the same GP by the way), and in every case made no attempt to address the cause of the problem. The kidney stones in particular was a fun failure to diagnose a relatively common problem, though, to be fair, I think that it was more due to laziness than incompetence.

    Also, despite lacking any medical training, I know that prescribing something with side effects including drowsiness, nausea and diziness to people who have a chronic headache caused by exam stress and back problems caused by working as a nurse is kind of stupid. The good news is that the nurse checked her BNF and refused to take them as it would have endangered her patients.
    It is difficult to say whether the GP in question was prescribing inappropriately having not been a fly on the wall in the consultations as they happened. It would also depend on the wider picture e.g. has that patient seen the doctor before about similar problems. Has anything else been tried.

    While giving amitriptyline for a kidney stone I can't understand (though not being aware of the way in which your friend presented their symptoms it may not always been clear cut). Hovever It is not uncommon to give amitriptyline to people who have both chronic headaches or chronic back pain when other treatments such as non-steroidals, paracetamol and codeine (more with back pain than with headaches) haven't worked. It is a reasonably standard treatment for resistant pain as it works in a slightly different way to the other medications. It is given at a lower dose that than you would give it if you were giving it as an antidepressant. Every medication that you start can have side effects and it is in most cases impossible to predict whether or not someone will get any side effects at all and if they do which ones they will be. Providing that your patient knows any big side effects and knows that they can come back if they have problems with the medication then I don't see why simply the risk of drowsiness as a side effect makes it inappropriate as she may not have experianced it at all.

    As I said above it is difficult to say for sure whether the prescribing was inappropriate and even if it was iI don't see how that correlates that all GPs are just handing out anti-depressants. I can honestly say that most of the GPs that I have come across (as a patient, while working in GP practices and also when accepting referals to the on-call team when in a hospital) are actually pretty good and work hard for their patients and make good calls when presented with a combination of symptoms which do not point to an obvious diagnosis.
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Cut the pay of GPs. I reckon I could be a GP and I have no experience, see

    "Whats wrong with you?"
    "Leg hurts"
    "I'll send you to a leg consultant"

    "Whats wrong with you?"
    "Ingrowing toe nail"
    "Here is a useless cream, this will not deal with the fundamental problem"

    "Whats wrong with you?"
    "Acne"
    "Well I could tell you to sort out your diet, but instead I'll put you on some drugs that once you stop taking them the acne will come back or might not even work at all, enjoy"

    "Whats wrong with you?"
    "Infection"
    "Antibiotics"

    "Whats wong with you?"
    "Im pregnant"
    "I'll send you to a midwife"

    "Whats wrong with you?"
    "Im.."
    "I don't give a ****, here's some antibiotics"
    Oh dear, you don't have a clue do you?

    Your posts gives the impression you think you know what you're on about, but there are just so many problems with what you are saying. I bet you're just here to critisise GPs with no basic understanding of what it is they do in the 10 minutes they are allowed to spend with a patient.

    Examples:

    "Leg hurts"
    If the GPs first reaction was to send everyone with a hurting leg to a consultant, the country would become bankcrupt pretty quickly. They need to work out whether it's something needing specialist "leg doctors" or something they can treat.

    "Infection"
    Not just a case of giving antibiotics...what if it's a viral infection...what you do then? How would you tell if it's a viral infection. How would you tell if it was something that you alone could treat or whether the infection was life threatening and needed hospital admission?

    I'm sure I could go on...

    And like you I don't have any medical training either...but it's common sense that things aren't as simple as you make out...or at least I thought it was common sense.

    As for the subject of this thread and whether doctors should strike, yes, they should strike in some way. Not a total strike, but maybe some sort of rolling strike of withholding certain types of work on different days, perhaps reducing the amount of scheduled, non-emergency work they do or perhaps working only the hours stipulated in their contracts and nothing more (we'd soon see problems if they did any of these things). Another slightly more odd idea I've heard mentioned is that doctors could perhaps 'strike' by refusing to sign cremation certificates. This is actually not part of a doctors contracted job, any they do are up to them and paid separately, but it is also a legal requirement that they are signed by too doctors before someone can be cremated. Stopping doing this would very soon have massive knock-on effects as the bodies pile up. It wouldn't actually affect anyone who is sick or in need of care either, nor would a doctor be withholding any work they are contracted for...but it could have effects on the berieved, so that would have to be weighed up as whether it's OK to do...
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    I have a poster in my room telling me to turn the light off when I leave, does that mean I do it.....
    The fact that it's there should tell you that there's clearly been a problem in the past with previous occupants not turning their lights off. That's hardly the fault of the landlord, is it?

    Similarly, if GP waiting rooms and hospitals have these posters (for the edification of the patients not the staff) that ought to tell you that it is in fact GPs who are frustrated by people who continue to ask for antibiotics when there's no reason to...then get offended when they don't get the prescription they wanted.

    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Well, the main reason I objected to the prescription was that in every case it was given after less than 5 minutes of conversation with the patient (these were all the same GP by the way), and in every case made no attempt to address the cause of the problem. The kidney stones in particular was a fun failure to diagnose a relatively common problem, though, to be fair, I think that it was more due to laziness than incompetence.
    Constraints placed on the doctor-patient relationship and the amount of time doctors spend with patients are rooted in health policy, and are not the fault of any particular medical specialism. Doctors of all different kinds of specialities will tell you that they wish they had more time to see patients, less paperwork to do, less targets to meet and fewer boxes to tick. It isn't just general practioners who feel like they'd want more time with patients.

    (Original post by bestofyou)
    one day strikes aren't suposed to to 'effective' as such, they are merely used as a show of strength, flex the muscles if you wish.
    Very true, but that's not really the point of industrial action...I would have thought that the point would be to actually get something done rather than simply posture...though as people have pointed out, getting doctors (or any group of healthcare professionals - nurses, whatever) to strike en masse for a significant period of time will be difficult due to the harm which will be caused to patients.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    The decision whether to go on strike is one that I think few doctors will take lightly. There is a reason why there hasn't been a strike in such a long time and that is that most doctors take their commitment to their patients seriously (however the media might potray us). I know that personally I am still torn as to whether or not I will strike. I completely support the reasons for striking and a do agree that other methods have been tried and have failed. However I don't really want to strike as it is going to negatively effect patient care and I have always tried my hardest to do my best for my patients. I honestly haven't decided how I am going to vote when the ballot comes through my door and it is something I am going to have to do quite a lot of thinking about before I finally decide.



    It is difficult to say whether the GP in question was prescribing inappropriately having not been a fly on the wall in the consultations as they happened. It would also depend on the wider picture e.g. has that patient seen the doctor before about similar problems. Has anything else been tried.

    While giving amitriptyline for a kidney stone I can't understand (though not being aware of the way in which your friend presented their symptoms it may not always been clear cut). Hovever It is not uncommon to give amitriptyline to people who have both chronic headaches or chronic back pain when other treatments such as non-steroidals, paracetamol and codeine (more with back pain than with headaches) haven't worked. It is a reasonably standard treatment for resistant pain as it works in a slightly different way to the other medications. It is given at a lower dose that than you would give it if you were giving it as an antidepressant. Every medication that you start can have side effects and it is in most cases impossible to predict whether or not someone will get any side effects at all and if they do which ones they will be. Providing that your patient knows any big side effects and knows that they can come back if they have problems with the medication then I don't see why simply the risk of drowsiness as a side effect makes it inappropriate as she may not have experianced it at all.

    As I said above it is difficult to say for sure whether the prescribing was inappropriate and even if it was iI don't see how that correlates that all GPs are just handing out anti-depressants. I can honestly say that most of the GPs that I have come across (as a patient, while working in GP practices and also when accepting referals to the on-call team when in a hospital) are actually pretty good and work hard for their patients and make good calls when presented with a combination of symptoms which do not point to an obvious diagnosis.
    Thanks for the detailed reply, as it happens, only the back pain was a repeat visit (the problem has been ongoing for a good 15 years now). Probably just one dodgy GP though, we recently switched to another practice, who seem to be better. I guess you get cowboys in every profession.
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    So the doctors have voted overwhelmingly in favour of striking.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18254499
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    (Original post by Captain Crash)
    So the doctors have voted overwhelmingly in favour of striking.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18254499
    OVerwhelming majority, pretty expected i think. I agree with Andrew Lansley though, the public will not understand why we are striking, and the media are very quick to spout numbers to turn public opinion against the true meaning of this pension scheme. Shame really, there will be no change to the government's descision unfortunately, and i await the response from the BMA after this.
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    (Original post by Captain Crash)
    So the doctors have voted overwhelmingly in favour of striking.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18254499
    As expected, the media's already misrepresenting it. One day strikes really won't make a difference anyway (not just talking about medicine here), it'll just be seen as a token gesture.
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    (Original post by Carpediemxx)
    OVerwhelming majority, pretty expected i think. I agree with Andrew Lansley though, the public will not understand why we are striking, and the media are very quick to spout numbers to turn public opinion against the true meaning of this pension scheme. Shame really, there will be no change to the government's descision unfortunately, and i await the response from the BMA after this.
    Tbh, what else can we do? Lie down and take what the government imposes on us?
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    (Original post by Captain Crash)
    Tbh, what else can we do? Lie down and take what the government imposes on us?
    My personal opinion is a full strike of all services. The government cannot allow that and should negotiate before the proposed strike day. If they do not then people die, its really that simple. I don't think it would be that difficult to get a media-frenzy aimed at the government's unwillingness to negotiate with the country's most respected service. I'm already astounded by the complete lack of attention this has had in the media- the first strike in 40 years and barely a word? There is a reason why we don't strike, which to me means something really bad has happened to reach this point....yet we hear nothing about it.

    This strike will do nothing, and half hearted attempts to get heard will do nothing. As for public opinion, it shouldnt be cared about as much as people think...the public already know nothing about doctors wages or working standards, or the indeed the job at all, so why would it matter if this was added to that list of misinformation?

    As a final point, i don't even understand why this has even happened....there was only a very recent pension scheme change which provides positive income (2million??)for the government!! Why do we need to be hit again compared to other public sectors? and by such a degree? If the deficit is such a problem, then every public sector pension should be reduced as much as the other, surely a decrease of a couple of % across the nation is better than the screwing us over by over 7%?
    Meh, just seems to me that we just roll over and take what we get, and never do anything about it, and the government are exploiting it again and again.

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