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Has Britain Failed Its working Class?

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    tl;dr version:

    Britain has failed its working class population.

    1. There are so few working class jobs, and the ones that there are pay so poorly that British people cannot support themselves. Instead they have to rely on benefits destroying respect and the system in general.

    2. Immigration and outsourcing are not sustainable long term solution to replacing an indigenous working class population.

    3. The 'body' which makes up the country needs different individuals performing different roles in order to function effectively.

    4. Not everyone has an 'executive personality' and some indivduals are better suited to 'working' as opposed to 'leading'.

    Full version:

    1. There are little to no jobs for working class British people due to the lack of industry and manufacturing etc. As wages for the scarce working class jobs have been lowered (or at best remained static) the cost of living and in particular, housing has risen dramatically. We are now at the point where a working class wage cannot provide the basics for life (housing, food, travel to work/ school etc). Anyone earning below £20k would not be able to provide these for a family. Benefits are not a long term solution to this system as we are now seeing.

    2. The gap left in the market because of the above is now mostly filled with cheap short term labour (immigrants/ agency workers etc). Now this only works on a short cycle (individuals spending 1 to 2 years in a country saving up a little bit of cash and going back to their own country and having a relatively high level of purchasing power with it). Good for businesses (cheap labour) and good for immigrants (work and only temporary poverty which will in the end be rewarded). However in the meantime, millions of indigenous individuals sit around on benefits being told they are lazy and useless and should seek the solutions outlined below.

    3. Constant plans by the government for reducing unemployment are centred on 'finding the next Alan Sugar or Karen Brady', the magical 'entrepreneurial spirit' and working your way up the corporate ladder. The problem here is that an effective economy and company is not a ladder, but more like a human body. Key organs determining what functions when and how, but millions of cells working together to create a harmony and functional system. If everyone became 'chiefs' (brains) as the government supposedly wants us all to become, then we have a lot of planning, talking and debating, but no work being carried out and a general lack of care for doing a job well (when the agenda is always self promotion and manipulation to get onto the next 'step', then why do a job well?). British industry is probably the epitome of the expression 'too many chiefs and not enough Indians'. This can be seen everywhere from the poor quality of our modern buildings to the attitudes of our politicians and executives.

    4. Working class people (eg. artisans) are generally very humble and modest which doesn't fit into the executive personality. Some may say they are intellectually challenged, thick even with a poor attitude. But the reality is that any brain needs teams and systems to carry out their masterplans. In the modern sense, this is China etc doing the manufacturing whilst British people are all supposed to be learning how to become a 'chief' one day. The problem here is that 64 million can't all be chief's. That would be disastrous, not to mention the fact that every individual has different talents - one may be a great leader, another a great artisan or another a great thinker, writer etc. For some strange reason in this country there is just no value for anything else than middle class management. Any reasonable person can recognise the need for different individuals to work together for the common good of the entire body surely?

    So my basic point is that there are potentially millions of British people ready and willing to do jobs that companies hire (short term) workers for or outsource due to cheap labour whilst paying extortionate taxes for people to sit around waiting for change.

    What do you think? Have I got this completely wrong or does anyone else feel the same?
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    Shouldn't you be revising?
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    Yes.

    Although your opinions on immigration are a bit OTT.
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    You forgot to mention the abysmal quality of state secondary schools.
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    (Original post by Freiheit)
    You forgot to mention the abysmal quality of state secondary schools.
    Interesting point.

    With regards to this though, I would suggest that the root of the problem here lies not in the fact that the facilities are abysmal but that the attitude towards state education by society in general is poor. Speaking from a personal perspective, having attended a comprehensive, the facilities were all more or less in place but it was the attitude of the outside world which was the problem. People making sweeping judgments abut you based on the name of your school (employers/ clients etc). We need to encourage more social mobility somehow and increase the respect for working class professions. Ignorance is a dangerous thing.
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    I could say it also doesn't work for middle class people that they can't get an affordable, reliable plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc and that all goods are made outside the UK and of progressively lower quality apart from those from countries like Germany that did not abandon working class education, technical training and secure jobs.

    Our culture systematically devalues working class work and systematically over-values middle class work.
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    I think that a good sizeable majority of the working class are struggling, perhaps unnecessarily since we know that there are better ways of doing things... if only the politicians and law makers could see sense. There is a working class who claim housing benefit whilst working, and then there is a working class who don't claim housing benefit because their wages fully support them. The people who are moaning about how hard their life has become is the latter group, whilst the former, perhaps owing to a sublime Protestant work ethic, hardly moan and get on with things regardless. The latter group also complain about the former group just because they claim benefits and they do not. The latter group, by the way, are often those who have two cars in the drive, nice house and are able to afford dance lessons for their kids. They still complain how they have little money.

    Both these groups look down on a third group: the lower classes. These are the people who could work but don't. They claim income benefit and housing benefit. The working class groups look down on this group because they depend upon the state fully, and believe that life is easy down there. In turn, the lower classes sometimes (but not always) disparage the upper classes. In all this the working classes who feel stretched, overworked and underpaid (even though they could give up their second car and dance lessons for their kids), turn a blind eye to the real problem: the system, and politicians who constantly meddle with it.

    The class system is thus very useful for politicians.
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    (Original post by Freiheit)
    You forgot to mention the abysmal quality of state secondary schools.
    My brother went to a private school and actually did worse than me and I went to a 'state school'.Plus a friend of mine is a teacher in a school where kids are regularly put in his class who have come from Europe and can't speak a word of English yet his school still achieves 98% 5 A-C grades at GCSE. Sometimes I think people are too quick to bash the education system
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    The population here isn't indigenous. It's a native population, that's correct but not indigenous.

    in·dig·e·nous/inˈdijənəs/
    Adjective:
    Originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native: "the indigenous peoples of Siberia".
    na·tive/ˈnātiv/
    Noun:
    A person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not.
    Adjective:
    Associated with the country, region, or circumstances of a person's birth.
    Almost synonymous, but not exactly. The first is not true for England or the UK. It's true for Korea though.
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    (Original post by hanaxo)
    My brother went to a private school and actually did worse than me and I went to a 'state school'.Plus a friend of mine is a teacher in a school where kids are regularly put in his class who have come from Europe and can't speak a word of English yet his school still achieves 98% 5 A-C grades at GCSE. Sometimes I think people are too quick to bash the education system
    That's true, the system isn't bad but there's a big divide between the good schools and the many bad schools.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    I think that a good sizeable majority of the working class are struggling, perhaps unnecessarily since we know that there are better ways of doing things... if only the politicians and law makers could see sense. There is a working class who claim housing benefit whilst working, and then there is a working class who don't claim housing benefit because their wages fully support them. The people who are moaning about how hard their life has become is the latter group, whilst the former, perhaps owing to a sublime Protestant work ethic, hardly moan and get on with things regardless. The latter group also complain about the former group just because they claim benefits and they do not. The latter group, by the way, are often those who have two cars in the drive, nice house and are able to afford dance lessons for their kids. They still complain how they have little money.

    Both these groups look down on a third group: the lower classes. These are the people who could work but don't. They claim income benefit and housing benefit. The working class groups look down on this group because they depend upon the state fully, and believe that life is easy down there. In turn, the lower classes sometimes (but not always) disparage the upper classes. In all this the working classes who feel stretched, overworked and underpaid (even though they could give up their second car and dance lessons for their kids), turn a blind eye to the real problem: the system, and politicians who constantly meddle with it.

    The class system is thus very useful for politicians.
    Like a don.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    I think that a good sizeable majority of the working class are struggling, perhaps unnecessarily since we know that there are better ways of doing things... if only the politicians and law makers could see sense. There is a working class who claim housing benefit whilst working, and then there is a working class who don't claim housing benefit because their wages fully support them. The people who are moaning about how hard their life has become is the latter group, whilst the former, perhaps owing to a sublime Protestant work ethic, hardly moan and get on with things regardless. The latter group also complain about the former group just because they claim benefits and they do not. The latter group, by the way, are often those who have two cars in the drive, nice house and are able to afford dance lessons for their kids. They still complain how they have little money.

    Both these groups look down on a third group: the lower classes. These are the people who could work but don't. They claim income benefit and housing benefit. The working class groups look down on this group because they depend upon the state fully, and believe that life is easy down there. In turn, the lower classes sometimes (but not always) disparage the upper classes. In all this the working classes who feel stretched, overworked and underpaid (even though they could give up their second car and dance lessons for their kids), turn a blind eye to the real problem: the system, and politicians who constantly meddle with it.

    The class system is thus very useful for politicians.
    Depending on where you are, the strong Protestant work ethic isn't necessarily an accurate stereotype
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    (Original post by MTR_10)
    Interesting point.

    With regards to this though, I would suggest that the root of the problem here lies not in the fact that the facilities are abysmal but that the attitude towards state education by society in general is poor.
    I agree that the facilities are very good at secondary schools which shows that the priorities are in the wrong areas. Many schools I've have been to have excellent P.E and ICT facilities but the results and standard of teaching were poor. I agree that some people are quick to judge about the school you go to. I would love to see social mobility encouraged but this hasn't been the case anymore. I witness many bright students held back by their school just because the majority want to disrupt lessons on a regular basis. Pupils who are bright and want to do well should be given the chance to go to a school with similar students instead of being trapped in their local schools. The good state secondaries i've seen are usually in a wealthier catchment area and they seem to get better results.



    (Original post by hanaxo)
    My brother went to a private school and actually did worse than me and I went to a 'state school'.Plus a friend of mine is a teacher in a school where kids are regularly put in his class who have come from Europe and can't speak a word of English yet his school still achieves 98% 5 A-C grades at GCSE. Sometimes I think people are too quick to bash the education system
    I think criticising the education system is justified when discussing the general trends between comprehensive, selective and independent schools.
    The gap in achievement between the comprehensive and the other two needs to be reduced. There needs to be a way in which pupils from poor performing schools who do well are given the chance to move to better schools and fulfil their potential.

    http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgatewa...sfr02-2012.pdf
    PAGE4

    I agree that there are some teachers who do very well with the challenges they face.
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    I think the real problem is that you can be better off on benefits than in a lot of low level jobs.


    It's not the basic £65 per week allowance of JSA because obviously any job over 16 hours(the threshold to qualify for JSA) will earn you more than 65 quid a week, but all the extra benefits you earn on JSA such as housing benefit that you lose by going into work.


    I think the solution is probably more help for people in work but on low income.
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    I like to think that the each working class individual has failed himself or herself.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    I like to think that the each working class individual has failed himself or herself.
    Why? Because they are responsible for sky high levels of unemployment?

    Of course Britain has failed its working class. Wages are getting lower, economic inequality is increasing and working class jobs like manufacturing and mining have been destroyed.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Depending on where you are, the strong Protestant work ethic isn't necessarily an accurate stereotype
    I suspect that the strong worth ethic amongst the working classes is derived from the Protestant teaching that if you worked hard God will bless you. And possibly the Catholic teaching that the devil will find work for idle hands to do.
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    No. They might not have the best standard of living but they have access to housing, food and other basic necessities and have enough money to enjoy the weekend. You can provide for a family on under 20k. I'm not going to entertain your ridiculousness exaggeration. Have you ever heard of housing benefits?

    People are far too cynical when we're living the good life. People constantly go on about income inequality but who gives a ****? The funny thing is those who go on about income inequality tend to be the anti-consumerist type who like to view the simple life as the archetype of the good life, you can more than afford to live the simple life on minimum wage. So what you can't afford a car, there's public transport. So what you can't afford a first class holiday, there's ryanair. Budget properly and you can live a good life on less than 20k.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    No. They might not have the best standard of living but they have access to housing, food and other basic necessities and have enough money to enjoy the weekend. You can provide for a family on under 20k. I'm not going to entertain your ridiculousness exaggeration. Have you ever heard of housing benefits?

    People are far too cynical when we're living the good life. People constantly go on about income inequality but who gives a ****? The funny thing is those who go on about income inequality tend to be the anti-consumerist type who like to view the simple life as the archetype of the good life, you can more than afford to live the simple life on minimum wage. So what you can't afford a car, there's public transport. So what you can't afford a first class holiday, there's ryanair. Budget properly and you can live a good life on less than 20k.
    Suppose you've tried living on the minimum wage alone then and able to afford the increasing fares of our privatised transport systems? Income inequality is rising not only nationwide but worldwide thanks to the overly competitive free market but never mind because at least we can all watch the X factor and have good cheap holiday at a butlins resort so lets turn our back on man made problems.
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    (Original post by antimilitarist)
    Suppose you've tried living on the minimum wage alone then and able to afford the increasing fares of our privatised transport systems? Income inequality is rising not only nationwide but worldwide thanks to the overly competitive free market but never mind because at least we can all watch the X factor and have good cheap holiday at a butlins resort so lets turn our back on man made problems.
    We don't have a free market, especially world-wide. And no I haven't but considering my family does and pretty much everyone I know does, I think I have a fairly good understanding of how it is and this is in London.

    There is no problem. You aren't entitled to fly first class. You aren't entitled to be able to drive a expensive car. You aren't entitled to live in Chelsea. You've got access to your basic needs being met + enough money left over for luxuries like TV/SKY, internet, transport cost, weekend pub-visits, cheap holidays etc + good free healthcare. Life is good man.

    You can continue being a cynical person you want but your view doesn't have much basis.

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