[wanderlust.xx]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...grades-are-low

Having read this, I was not surprised. I have an exam tomorrow but quite frankly having read the comments, why bother?

Why should anyone bother trying to work hard in education? I feel like I've just completely waste 3 years of my life working my butt off for a first/2:1, and I feel like my hard working friends have too.

Why should we have worked hard and gotten a 2:1/first, when we could have quite literally just ****ed about, done no work, enjoyed ourselves for 3 years drinking ourselves stupid into the whee hours of the morning and just studied a day before the exam so we didn't fail?

Why not just do that, if anything above a 2:2 won't help at all towards career success?

I thought that working hard and getting a 2:1 would at the very least make it easier to get a job. Hell, I would have thought that a 2:1 in something as respected as a maths degree might get me a second glance.

Having read this article though, perhaps I should never have bothered.

[A Mysterious Lord]

It won't leave you unemployed but it'll make it twice as hard to get a graduate job without relevant experience.

[MrHappy_J]

You're going to not bother with your education because of something you read in the papers? Really, some people like me would kill for a 2:1 but I haven't got the academic ability or intelligence. So consider yourself lucky.

Edit: I don't know why you're so bothered that there are some people with 2:2s that still manage to have a successful career. In any case, if you read the last paragraph, the message of the article is exactly the opposite: that these cases are the exception rather than the rule, and that you should make the most out of your opportunities at university.

[meow444]

All the graduate jobs I've been looking at have been asking for a minimum 2:1 so it obviously does matter.

Some examples for the sceptics:
http://www.prospects.ac.uk/graduate_...bId=421519&p=5

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/graduate_...Id=419081&p=11

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/graduate_...Id=416899&p=15

Also stumbled across this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10506798 'Three quarters of employers 'require 2:1 degree''

[kassiopeia]

(Original post by wanderlust.xx)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...grades-are-low

Having read this, I was not surprised. I have an exam tomorrow but quite frankly having read the comments, why bother?

Why should anyone bother trying to work hard in education? I feel like I've just completely waste 3 years of my life working my butt off for a first/2:1, and I feel like my hard working friends have too.

Why should we have worked hard and gotten a 2:1/first, when we could have quite literally just ****ed about, done no work, enjoyed ourselves for 3 years drinking ourselves stupid into the whee hours of the morning and just studied a day before the exam so we didn't fail?

Why not just do that, if anything above a 2:2 won't help at all towards career success?

I thought that working hard and getting a 2:1 would at the very least make it easier to get a job. Hell, I would have thought that a 2:1 in something as respected as a maths degree might get me a second glance.

Having read this article though, perhaps I should never have bothered.

Having good grades can help you in many aspects:
a) get into a graduate scheme or a competitive profession or possition
b)get into a good uni for postgrad
c)you'll know more
other than that do not forget that people with 2:2 went to uni too

[Marc Fiorano]

You have an exam tomorrow.

I'm going to guess you're having that "**** it I'm not going to bother with exams because degrees are worthless anyway" moment.

We've all been there
In fact I think people question the worth of their grades most during exam time when they have a niggling feeling that the exams won't go as well as they'd hoped.

[Smack]

What does a degree classification have to do with one's ability to work in the real world?

I know several people on my course had no problems securing jobs with some of the biggest companies the world with 2:2s. Experience counts for far more.

[NB_ide]

imo/ime your degree classification, subject and university are a lonngggg way down the list of important things when it comes to getting a job. It's all about your experience, charisma and general people-skills. A degree should be used for making contacts and very easily getting placements in industry. The actual certification you receive at the end is largely irrelevant.

[mucgoo]

Some anecdotes and questionable statistics and your worried?

Having at look at that 48% employment claim it seems in summary that the difference is created by the far fewer two two'ers going onto "further study"

The assumed to be unemployed rate is 6% with a first and 12% with a second. Although that may be partly down to the kind of people who gets first and 2,2's.

[ForKicks]

(Original post by wanderlust.xx)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...grades-are-low

Having read this, I was not surprised. I have an exam tomorrow but quite frankly having read the comments, why bother?

Why should anyone bother trying to work hard in education? I feel like I've just completely waste 3 years of my life working my butt off for a first/2:1, and I feel like my hard working friends have too.

Why should we have worked hard and gotten a 2:1/first, when we could have quite literally just ****ed about, done no work, enjoyed ourselves for 3 years drinking ourselves stupid into the whee hours of the morning and just studied a day before the exam so we didn't fail?

Why not just do that, if anything above a 2:2 won't help at all towards career success?

I thought that working hard and getting a 2:1 would at the very least make it easier to get a job. Hell, I would have thought that a 2:1 in something as respected as a maths degree might get me a second glance.

Having read this article though, perhaps I should never have bothered.

Not sure if you read it how I did, but I got that getting a 2:2 will scale back your dreams, limit you in paper shifts for good jobs, and that the success stories of 2:2 students are only heard because they are unusual.

As far as I am aware, 2:1+ is still very important, particularly in the short-term

[wanderlust.xx]

(Original post by Marc Fiorano)
You have an exam tomorrow.

I'm going to guess you're having that "**** it I'm not going to bother with exams because degrees are worthless anyway" moment.

We've all been there
In fact I think people question the worth of their grades most during exam time when they have a niggling feeling that the exams won't go as well as they'd hoped.

I have no doubts I won't succeed tomorrow, since I have prepared extensively throughout the year and worked hard to understand my degree while others simply gave up and had fun. While I was doing my problem sets, they were watching tv or watching a movie or 'doing nothing'. While I worked and forced myself to do what I didnt want to, all I was thinking was, "it's worth it in the end. I'll have a 2:1 and they won't".

This article questions my entire belief system.

[Joinedup]

You get a much bigger bursary if you sign on as a trainee maths teacher

[ForKicks]

(Original post by NB_ide)
imo/ime your degree classification, subject and university are a lonngggg way down the list of important things when it comes to getting a job. It's all about your experience, charisma and general people-skills. A degree should be used for making contacts and very easily getting placements in industry. The actual certification you receive at the end is largely irrelevant.

True, but unfortunately all grad jobs place it 1st in the list, in that you can't apply without one.

*That wasn't an insult to people with a 2:2..it is just stating the fact that grad schemes have an automatic 2:1 filter system now everything is done online. Surely that was obvious from what I said?

[StarsAreFixed]

You think everyone who got a 2:2 just drank in final year? Seriously? I didn't drink once in final year. My dissertation had to be restarted twice because after being given the go-ahead I was told it was far too broad, which meant it had to be started over. Within 6 weeks I wrote a 16,000 word dissertation which needed huge amount of primary research and five 6-7,000 word essays- 4 of which were due on the same day as another and all of which counted for either nothing but still had to be done (2) or the whole of the module. I was in the library from 9am-8pm every day, I frequently had to work on 48 hours of no sleep and I was sick from stress and overwork for much of that time. Everything was done on time with extensive research BUT it was not done to the best of my ability as I literally could not devote my all to each piece. So I got a 2:2 and was refused the chance to appeal it. I was the only person in my course who had all of those deadlines on top of each other and the only one with an incompetent dissertation tutor who set me back by weeks.

I understand that there are of course people who prefer to socialise rather than do their assignments properly, but to throw everyone who gets 2:2's and under into that pile? You are delusional.

[MrHappy_J]

(Original post by wanderlust.xx)
I have no doubts I won't succeed tomorrow, since I have prepared extensively throughout the year and worked hard to understand my degree while others simply gave up and had fun. While I was doing my problem sets, they were watching tv or watching a movie or 'doing nothing'. While I worked and forced myself to do what I didnt want to, all I was thinking was, "it's worth it in the end. I'll have a 2:1 and they won't".

This article questions my entire belief system.

Are you reading properly?

"I've heard people say that getting a 2:2 didn't affect them, that it spurred them on to work harder. But the reason success stories are told and retold – of the high-flying ex-dropout or the tycoon who triumphed despite a poor academic record – is precisely because they're unusual.

Why give yourself those obstacles? What are you proving? If life is about eliminating as many future regrets as possible, then you need to make the most of your opportunities at university.

The wisdom of our parents holds true: work hard now so you don't have to work hard later"

[wanderlust.xx]

(Original post by Smack)
What does a degree classification have to do with one's ability to work in the real world?

I know several people on my course had no problems securing jobs with some of the biggest companies the world with 2:2s. Experience counts for far more.

I wholeheartedly agree. I have in fact attempted to prepare for this over the course of my final year, attempting to make myself more employable and taking more responsibilities on whilst keeping on top of my work.

I guess what I'm saying is, why bother with the work at all? Why not just do a bunch of ECA's, a shed load of experience and get a 2:2? That'd be no different from working hard and getting a first, except you don't need to work hard.

[The_Lonely_Goatherd]

(Original post by wanderlust.xx)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...grades-are-low

Having read this, I was not surprised. I have an exam tomorrow but quite frankly having read the comments, why bother?

Why should anyone bother trying to work hard in education? I feel like I've just completely waste 3 years of my life working my butt off for a first/2:1, and I feel like my hard working friends have too.

Why should we have worked hard and gotten a 2:1/first, when we could have quite literally just ****ed about, done no work, enjoyed ourselves for 3 years drinking ourselves stupid into the whee hours of the morning and just studied a day before the exam so we didn't fail?

Why not just do that, if anything above a 2:2 won't help at all towards career success?

I thought that working hard and getting a 2:1 would at the very least make it easier to get a job. Hell, I would have thought that a 2:1 in something as respected as a maths degree might get me a second glance.

Having read this article though, perhaps I should never have bothered.

We're in a harsh economic climate at the moment and there are more people graduating with degrees than is strictly necessary. This is what the problem is.

I'm not in a position to be looking for work at the moment but my understanding has been that whilst the kind of jobs I would be looking at would still be open to me, quite a few doors automatically close in your face too.

In any case, it's worth getting a 2.1 or above just for the satisfaction of knowing that you are capable of it and achieved it. Otherwise you probably regret not trying harder or (in my case) are left with a degree that doesn't reflect your abilities. It's very frustrating having a 2.2

[Pindar]

I know three people who graduated one year from a good uni with very similar degrees.

One got a 2:1, one got a 2:2 and the other got a 3rd.

One earns enough to live from a mid level company and took almost a year to find a job.
One earns quite a good amount, has a company car and works for a blue chip company.
One earns a six digit salary, has their own secretary, a personal limo and a large expenses account.

Guess which one got a 3rd?

[MrHappy_J]

(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
We're in a harsh economic climate at the moment and there are more people graduating with degrees than is strictly necessary. This is what the problem is.

I'm not in a position to be looking for work at the moment but my understanding has been that whilst the kind of jobs I would be looking at would still be open to me, quite a few doors automatically close in your face too.

In any case, it's worth getting a 2.1 or above just for the satisfaction of knowing that you are capable of it and achieved it. Otherwise you probably regret not trying harder or (in my case) are left with a degree that doesn't reflect your abilities. It's very frustrating having a 2.2

You graduated from Oxford, you have nothing to worry about.

[wanderlust.xx]

(Original post by StarsAreFixed)
You think everyone who got a 2:2 just drank in final year? Seriously? I didn't drink once in final year. My dissertation had to be restarted twice because after being given the go-ahead I was told it was far too broad, which meant it had to be started over. Within 6 weeks I wrote a 16,000 word dissertation which needed huge amount of primary research and five 6-7,000 word essays- 4 of which were due on the same day as another and all of which counted for either nothing but still had to be done (2) or the whole of the module. I was in the library from 9am-8pm every day, I frequently had to work on 48 hours of no sleep and I was sick from stress and overwork for much of that time. Everything was done on time with extensive research BUT it was not done to the best of my ability as I literally could not devote my all to each piece. So I got a 2:2 and was refused the chance to appeal it. I was the only person in my course who had all of those deadlines on top of each other and the only one with an incompetent dissertation tutor who set me back by weeks.

I understand that there are of course people who prefer to socialise rather than do their assignments properly, but to throw everyone who gets 2:2's and under into that pile? You are delusional.

Perhaps I gave the wrong impression in my original post and I'm deeply sorry for that, but I most definitely did not mean to undermine anyone's accomplishment at a 2:2. It is a perfectly great classification and plenty work hard and get one, but I'm just saying that if for example, one is on track for a 2:2, or above, why not just get one and focus on improving yourself?

I used a 2:2 simply because it is the social taboo of the modern graduate due to the vast number of graduate schemes that separate 2:1's and above.