[newhope]

I have just heard on Sky News that the Scottish Government has increased the prices for alcohol to overcome drinking problems and all the other socials problems that come with it.

Do you think that this increase in cost will help solve these problems? I do not since I just think that the alcoholics will only find more ways to save money on food for example and spend it more on alcohol.

[Snagprophet]

Booze cruises to England methinks.

[Z-6H820]

I seriously doubt an alcoholic will go into a supermarket and go "Aw, Buckfast is £8 now?? Rip off, I'll get orange juice." Alcoholics and teenagers will just be more skint now. Pointless law, but I suppose it'll make a bit more tax which I'd like to think will help combat these problems more...

[Popppppy]

(Original post by newhope)
I have just heard on Sky News that the Scottish Government has increased the prices for alcohol to overcome drinking problems and all the other socials problems that come with it.

Do you think that this increase in cost will help solve these problems? I do not since I just think that the alcoholics will only find more ways to save money on food for example and spend it more on alcohol.

I agree completely. The people that abuse alcohol have their priorities wrong, and increasing the price of alcohol will just cause them to spend less elsewhere.
This could end up meaning children going without winter coats, the heating not being on, cheap, small dinners etc.

Making alcohol more expensive won't fix the problem.

[auberjean]

(Original post by Popppppy)
I agree completely. The people that abuse alcohol have their priorities wrong, and increasing the price of alcohol will just cause them to spend less elsewhere.
This could end up meaning children going without winter coats, the heating not being on, cheap, small dinners etc.

Making alcohol more expensive won't fix the problem.

Exactly. I think they kind of had the right idea but the implementation is wrong. Increasing the minimum cost for alcohol will only bring about more inequalities...

[Pandabär]

Fairly unrelated, but I wish they'd ban drinking alcohol on trains instead, like they have in London.

I've had too many 7-hour train rides surrounded by glass bottles being smashed around me, being sprayed with stray beer foam, people screaming obscenities, pressing the disabled passenger alarm (for fun) and throwing up on the floor in front of little kids.

Last Friday, on the London-Aberdeen train, for example.

[py0alb]

If their plan was to force starvation upon alcoholics and their dependents, then they've absolutely nailed it with this one.


Stupid bunch of *****

[py0alb]

(Original post by Pandabär)
Fairly unrelated, but I wish they'd ban drinking alcohol on trains instead, like they have in London.

I've had too many 7-hour train rides surrounded by glass bottles being smashed around me, being sprayed with stray beer foam, people screaming obscenities, pressing the disabled passenger alarm (for fun) and throwing up on the floor in front of little kids.

Last Friday, on the London-Aberdeen train, for example.

what. the. ****.

because a tiny minority of people act like ****ers, you want to ban me from having a nice relaxing beer on the train? Talk about fascist. You'll be telling me I can't have a can whilst driving done the M1 next.

[Pandabär]

(Original post by py0alb)
what. the. ****.

because a tiny minority of people act like ****ers, you want to ban me from having a nice relaxing beer on the train? Talk about fascist. You'll be telling me I can't have a can whilst driving done the M1 next.

It's happened to me several times, so I wouldn't call it a tiny minority. And it's worked in London, where people accepted it without screaming about how 'fascist' it was...

[py0alb]

(Original post by Pandabär)
It's happened to me several times, so I wouldn't call it a tiny minority. And it's worked in London, where people accepted it without screaming about how 'fascist' it was...

Its ****ing bull****. If people are out of order, then kick them off the train. Don't punish the rest of us. Just because some pathetic cowards are too scared to stand up for their basic rights doesn't mean we all should bend over and take it. It hasn't worked in London unless by "worked" you mean "made everyone even more miserable".

I once saw a man eat a sandwich and then swear at someone. BAN SANDWICHES. BAN EVERYTHING

[Pandabär]

(Original post by py0alb)
Its ****ing bull****. If people are out of order, then kick them off the train. Don't punish the rest of us. Just because some pathetic cowards are too scared to stand up for their basic rights doesn't mean we all should bend over and take it. It hasn't worked in London unless by "worked" you mean "made everyone even more miserable".

I once saw a man eat a sandwich and then swear at someone. BAN SANDWICHES. BAN EVERYTHING

I'm not too sure about your analogy. Sandwiches don't lead to antisocial behaviour. Excess alcohol leads to intoxication, which often does.

If it's such a stupid idea, why has London successfully implemented it, as well as many other European cities?

[Nightstar-27]

The law won't really help tackle alcoholics because they would probably skimp other things to afford the booze (people going on about the children who would suffer should realise that child services would end up taking the children away if they haven't already from an extreme alcoholic and if an alcoholic themselves suffers it is their own fault.) but it might help stop underage drinkers who tend not to have a lot of money and it might help to stop students and young people from drinking too much on nights out so they still have a good time but don't end up completely wasted. It would also help to bring people back into pubs and away from buying super market alcohol, helping the pub industry and also stopping people from drinking out in the streets so much. Anyone who decides to drink over food and other essentials is a fool. Its not the governments responsibility to make sure these people are fine when they are making constant choices that put them into bad situations.

[py0alb]

(Original post by Pandabär)
I'm not too sure about your analogy. Sandwiches don't lead to antisocial behaviour. Excess alcohol leads to intoxication, which often does.

If it's such a stupid idea, why has London successfully implemented it, as well as many other European cities?

No it doesn't. Alcohol causes contentment and a sense of tranquility.

Excess coca cola leads to hyperactivity, ban that too.

Again - define successfully. Because something has gone ahead, that automatically means it was a good idea does it?

It was a terrible idea, ethically indefensible, disgracefully draconian and it should be immediately reversed in London.

Anyway, I drank a can of beer on a train in London only the other week. So they're obviously not enforcing it very well either. I imagine the authorities have realised that its a fascist ****ing disgrace of a law and they're choosing to ignore it rather than illegitimately imposing the will of the state on the individual, and good on them.

I couldn't give a monkeys what the idiots in Europe do.

[the bear]

Maybe the manufacturers could get round the increase by including cigarettes sellotaped to the beer can. Perfectly legal.

[Aj12]

This is going to achieve jack all. If someone with a drinking problem has to choose between food or alcohol they will go for alcohol every time.

[MagicNMedicine]

Would be better if they just put up alcohol tax rather than a minimum price.

Let the government collect the revenues rather than retailers.

The Scots would have no problems paying for free tuition fees with the money that came through their pockets from a pish tax, they would probably be able to finance a space programme with it.

[Nick100]

As a Scot I find this policy irritating and pointless. It punishes responsible citizens and it won't stop the hard drinkers.

[py0alb]

(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
Would be better if they just put up alcohol tax rather than a minimum price.

Let the government collect the revenues rather than retailers.

The Scots would have no problems paying for free tuition fees with the money that came through their pockets from a pish tax, they would probably be able to finance a space programme with it.

Its a weird one, isn't it. Presumably value plonk is a pretty undifferentiated and thus competitive market so one can assume that they were previously selling off this cheapo booze at marginal cost prices, and now there is a price floor we will have an inefficiency and government imposed supernormal profits and a reduction in consumer surplus.

[rich2606]

They should have reduced the duty for alcohol served in pubs and bars or something at the same time. The problem these days is mostly down to people pre-loading and getting as smashed as they can on cheap supermarket bought alcohol before even getting to their ultimate destination on a night out. At least then people would be more likely to drink in a supervised environment and sensibly rather than at home in a race against the clock. Also it'd provide a boost for the struggling night life industry rather than for big supermarket chains who are making enough profit as it is.

[MagicNMedicine]

(Original post by py0alb)
Its a weird one, isn't it. Presumably value plonk is a pretty undifferentiated and thus competitive market so one can assume that they were previously selling off this cheapo booze at marginal cost prices, and now there is a price floor we will have an inefficiency and government imposed supernormal profits and a reduction in consumer surplus.

I agree.

I assume the economic argument is that there's an externality however even there I would favour a pigouvian tax rather than a price floor.

Alternatively you could target the externality directly ie harder fines for alcohol related antisocial behaviour or breach the taboo issue of user charges for healthcare when something is alcohol related.

How about introduce a law, if you get arrested for anything you get breathalysed and if you had alcohol in your system and you subsequently get charged for any offence you face a £2500 fine. That way you best make sure you're on your best behaviour when you've been at the bottle.