[I Like Turtles]

Hi,
First off, I Like Turtles!!!

What annoys me about music, is there is musicians with lots of talent, uploading music covers onto youtube, yet not going onto shows such as The X Factor.

For example, Elyar Fox <3





He is an amazing singer, as you can see with his above covers of Call Me Maybe and Someone Like You.

He just uploads his videos onto youtube though.

I can tell you for a fact that if he went onto any talent show for singing, I would vote for him!

The bad part is that then the music industry brings out musicians, who are worse than these true musicians, with so much less talent.

Okay, my musical rant is over.

Thank you.

[Drunk Punx]

They're performers, not musicians. There's a big difference.

[Kiss]

Right, its someone covering something with the power of autotune at their disposal. He's a performer, not a proper muscian. I'm not saying he's bad but there is a huge difference. And someone shouldn't go on the x factor if they are good at singing just because you want them to.

[R4INBOW]

Using tsr for advertising? tsk tsk

[I Like Turtles]

(Original post by Drunk Punx)
They're performers, not musicians. There's a big difference.

So by that logic, a lapdancer is a performer and not a lapdancer, and an actor is a performer and not an actor.
I think your logic is a little bit flawed, because performer can mean a lot of things, but musicians means one certain thing, hence why I called him a musician.

(Original post by Kiss)
Right, its someone covering something with the power of autotune at their disposal. He's a performer, not a proper muscian. I'm not saying he's bad but there is a huge difference. And someone shouldn't go on the x factor if they are good at singing just because you want them to.

I never said I wanted him to, and he's not using autotune either. He's not a proper musician as you see it because he is not playing an instrument, but he is using his vocal chords which classes him as a singer, which classes him as a musician.

(Original post by R4INBOW)
Using tsr for advertising? tsk tsk

LOL. He is good though. I wish it was me.

[Drunk Punx]

(Original post by I Like Turtles)
So by that logic, a lapdancer is a performer and not a lapdancer, and an actor is a performer and not an actor.
I think your logic is a little bit flawed, because performer can mean a lot of things, but musicians means one certain thing, hence why I called him a musician

Film careers and music careers are vastly different. A musician implies than you write your own music. In the videos you posted, they were performing someone else's music.

They're performers no matter how you look at it.
A lapdancer is a lapdancer because that's their profession; they lapdance. An actor is an actor because that's their profession; they act.

[1.X.1905]

(Original post by Drunk Punx)
Film careers and music careers are vastly different. A musician implies than you write your own music. In the videos you posted, they were performing someone else's music.

They're performers no matter how you look at it.

Being a musician and being a performer are not mutually exclusive. The term for a musician who writes (popular) music is a songwriter. A musician who performs a piece is a performer. A musician who co-ordinates large groups of performers is a conductor. They are all musicians.

If you enjoy quibbling over terminology, I might point out your unorthodox classification of acting and lap-dancing as 'professions'.

[Tilly87]

I like turtles too
perhaps because some people with lots of talent and more unique voices don't like the fact that x factor often looks for very stereotypical singers - it is very high profile, and if you win you end up often with a record deal where you don't get much say in what exactly you want to perform and how you want to market yourself. Some people are much better going independent and seeing what happens. I see what you mean though - sometimes very popular singers don't have the best voices and things are often based on looks, but on the other hand there are many popular singers out there who can actually sing very well - jessie j, lady gaga, even tulisa is a pretty good singer when you watch her live lounge stuff.

[Drunk Punx]

(Original post by 1.X.1905)
Being a musician and being a performer are not mutually exclusive. The term for a musician who writes (popular) music is a songwriter. A musician who performs a piece is a performer. A musician who co-ordinates large groups of performers is a conductor. They are all musicians.

If you enjoy quibbling over terminology, I might point out your unorthodox classification of acting and lap-dancing as 'professions'.

Really? How so? Many people consider it "work", which therefore entitles it to be called a "job". If you are very good at this job, so much so that you've learnt from your mistakes and greatly improved over the time in which you've been at said job, then that makes you a professional at said job.
Ergo, you can call it your "profession".

Or there's what Wikipedia says on the matter: "A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain"

I'd argue that lapdancing is a vocation founded upon specialized training, although it's not really education. That being said, it definitely provides a "service for others", or so to speak. The rest of the paragraph is fairly self-explanatory.

Granted, lapdancing isn't exactly a profession in the same way that teaching is a profession, which largely resembles cannabis being vastly different from crack despite them both being "drugs".

[Id and Ego seek]

Haha, Elyar is actually a good friend of mine (we went to primary school together)

[Bellissima]

there are millions of people who can sing, are you saying they should all automatically get recording contracts from huge record labels?

[Id and Ego seek]

(Original post by Bellissima)
there are millions of people who can sing, are you saying they should all automatically get recording contracts from huge record labels?

Bieber made it seem that way.

[JCC-MGS]

Lol who really cares, how many flash-in-the-pan singers can you really have in the music industry? They come, they go, better and worse singers will replace them and the cycle continues. Why not rant about why people who do guitar covers on YouTube aren't getting gigs as session musicians? Because they're session musicians and there'll always be plenty of them

[Bellissima]

(Original post by Id and Ego seek)
Bieber made it seem that way.

because bieber is EVERYONE? he is a very lucky guy...

[Vixen47]

They may want to keep it as a hobby? I often hear hobbies are best left as hobbies because once they're taken up professionally, they are no longer enjoyable. I can imagine why people say this, but I for one would absolutely love to take music up professionally!

"True musician"? There's no such thing. All musicians are true musicians, it's just a matter of how they use their ability and if they use it to their full potential.

[shorttstuff]

The thing is though - the music industry tries and picks the next big trend so fans can get addicted to the artist and make money etc etc. (hence why bieber is so famous)

If people don't want to enter talent shows then fair enough - there are other ways to get into the music industry I.e. through YouTube :-)

[1.X.1905]

(Original post by Drunk Punx)
Really? How so? Many people consider it "work", which therefore entitles it to be called a "job". If you are very good at this job, so much so that you've learnt from your mistakes and greatly improved over the time in which you've been at said job, then that makes you a professional at said job.
Ergo, you can call it your "profession".

Or there's what Wikipedia says on the matter: "A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain"

I'd argue that lapdancing is a vocation founded upon specialized training, although it's not really education. That being said, it definitely provides a "service for others", or so to speak. The rest of the paragraph is fairly self-explanatory.

Granted, lapdancing isn't exactly a profession in the same way that teaching is a profession, which largely resembles cannabis being vastly different from crack despite them both being "drugs".

On the Wikipedia page it also says:

The main milestones which mark an occupation being identified as a profession are:
- It became a full-time occupation;
- The first training school was established;
- The first university school was established;
- The first local association was established;
- The first national association was established;
- The codes of professional ethics were introduced;
- State licensing laws were established.

A profession arises when any trade or occupation transforms itself through "the development of formal qualifications based upon education, apprenticeship, and examinations, the emergence of regulatory bodies with powers to admit and discipline members, and some degree of monopoly rights."

There is considerable agreement about defining the characteristic features of a profession. They have a "professional association, cognitive base, institutionalized training, licensing, work autonomy, colleague control... (and) code of ethics," to which Larson then also adds, "high standards of professional and intellectual excellence," (Larson, p. 221) that "professions are occupations with special power and prestige," (Larson, p.x) and that they comprise "an exclusive elite group," (Larson, p. 20) in all societies. Members of a profession have also been defined as "workers whose qualities of detachment, autonomy, and group allegiance are more extensive than those found among other groups...their attributes include a high degree of systematic knowledge; strong community orientation and loyalty; self-regulation; and a system of rewards defined and administered by the community of workers."

A profession has been further defined as: "a special type of occupation...(possessing) corporate solidarity...prolonged specialized training in a body of abstract knowledge, and a collectivity or service orientation...a vocational sub-culture which comprises implicit codes of behaviour, generates an esprit de corps among members of the same profession, and ensures them certain occupational advantages...(also) bureaucratic structures and monopolistic privileges to perform certain types of work...professional literature, legislation, etc.

'Profession' is not synonymous with 'job' (and nor, for that matter, is 'trade'). A 'professional' is not someone who is skilled at any job; they have to be particularly skilled at a 'profession' (although the term is also used to distinguish high-level participants and amateurs in certain occupations).

[seanfromtheblock]

(Original post by Drunk Punx)
They're performers, not musicians. There's a big difference.

they're not mutually exclusive. Was Pavarotti not a musician either? or Nigel Kennedy?

[I Like Turtles]

(Original post by I Like Turtles)
Hi,
First off, I Like Turtles!!!

What annoys me about music, is there is musicians with lots of talent, uploading music covers onto youtube, yet not going onto shows such as The X Factor.

For example, Elyar Fox <3





He is an amazing singer, as you can see with his above covers of Call Me Maybe and Someone Like You.

He just uploads his videos onto youtube though.

I can tell you for a fact that if he went onto any talent show for singing, I would vote for him!

The bad part is that then the music industry brings out musicians, who are worse than these true musicians, with so much less talent.

Okay, my musical rant is over.

Thank you.

(Original post by Drunk Punx)
They're performers, not musicians. There's a big difference.

(Original post by Kiss)
Right, its someone covering something with the power of autotune at their disposal. He's a performer, not a proper muscian. I'm not saying he's bad but there is a huge difference. And someone shouldn't go on the x factor if they are good at singing just because you want them to.

(Original post by R4INBOW)
Using tsr for advertising? tsk tsk

(Original post by I Like Turtles)
So by that logic, a lapdancer is a performer and not a lapdancer, and an actor is a performer and not an actor.
I think your logic is a little bit flawed, because performer can mean a lot of things, but musicians means one certain thing, hence why I called him a musician.




I never said I wanted him to, and he's not using autotune either. He's not a proper musician as you see it because he is not playing an instrument, but he is using his vocal chords which classes him as a singer, which classes him as a musician.




LOL. He is good though. I wish it was me.

(Original post by Drunk Punx)
Film careers and music careers are vastly different. A musician implies than you write your own music. In the videos you posted, they were performing someone else's music.

They're performers no matter how you look at it.
A lapdancer is a lapdancer because that's their profession; they lapdance. An actor is an actor because that's their profession; they act.

(Original post by 1.X.1905)
Being a musician and being a performer are not mutually exclusive. The term for a musician who writes (popular) music is a songwriter. A musician who performs a piece is a performer. A musician who co-ordinates large groups of performers is a conductor. They are all musicians.

If you enjoy quibbling over terminology, I might point out your unorthodox classification of acting and lap-dancing as 'professions'.

(Original post by Tilly87)
I like turtles too
perhaps because some people with lots of talent and more unique voices don't like the fact that x factor often looks for very stereotypical singers - it is very high profile, and if you win you end up often with a record deal where you don't get much say in what exactly you want to perform and how you want to market yourself. Some people are much better going independent and seeing what happens. I see what you mean though - sometimes very popular singers don't have the best voices and things are often based on looks, but on the other hand there are many popular singers out there who can actually sing very well - jessie j, lady gaga, even tulisa is a pretty good singer when you watch her live lounge stuff.

(Original post by Drunk Punx)
Really? How so? Many people consider it "work", which therefore entitles it to be called a "job". If you are very good at this job, so much so that you've learnt from your mistakes and greatly improved over the time in which you've been at said job, then that makes you a professional at said job.
Ergo, you can call it your "profession".

Or there's what Wikipedia says on the matter: "A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain"

I'd argue that lapdancing is a vocation founded upon specialized training, although it's not really education. That being said, it definitely provides a "service for others", or so to speak. The rest of the paragraph is fairly self-explanatory.

Granted, lapdancing isn't exactly a profession in the same way that teaching is a profession, which largely resembles cannabis being vastly different from crack despite them both being "drugs".

(Original post by Id and Ego seek)
Haha, Elyar is actually a good friend of mine (we went to primary school together)

(Original post by Bellissima)
there are millions of people who can sing, are you saying they should all automatically get recording contracts from huge record labels?

(Original post by Id and Ego seek)
Bieber made it seem that way.

(Original post by JCC-MGS)
Lol who really cares, how many flash-in-the-pan singers can you really have in the music industry? They come, they go, better and worse singers will replace them and the cycle continues. Why not rant about why people who do guitar covers on YouTube aren't getting gigs as session musicians? Because they're session musicians and there'll always be plenty of them

(Original post by Bellissima)
because bieber is EVERYONE? he is a very lucky guy...

(Original post by Vixen47)
They may want to keep it as a hobby? I often hear hobbies are best left as hobbies because once they're taken up professionally, they are no longer enjoyable. I can imagine why people say this, but I for one would absolutely love to take music up professionally!

"True musician"? There's no such thing. All musicians are true musicians, it's just a matter of how they use their ability and if they use it to their full potential.

(Original post by shorttstuff)
The thing is though - the music industry tries and picks the next big trend so fans can get addicted to the artist and make money etc etc. (hence why bieber is so famous)

If people don't want to enter talent shows then fair enough - there are other ways to get into the music industry I.e. through YouTube :-)

(Original post by 1.X.1905)
On the Wikipedia page it also says:







'Profession' is not synonymous with 'job' (and nor, for that matter, is 'trade'). A 'professional' is not someone who is skilled at any job; they have to be particularly skilled at a 'profession' (although the term is also used to distinguish high-level participants and amateurs in certain occupations).

(Original post by seanfromtheblock)
they're not mutually exclusive. Was Pavarotti not a musician either? or Nigel Kennedy?

This probably sounds stupid, but I'm laughing at how it's affecting all of you. Music is a powerful thing. Musicians/Performers, they can be called many things. There are many ways to get into a music industry but not all of them work out, and yes music moves on and we live our lives but we are free to rant about it.

[Kiss]

(Original post by I Like Turtles)
This probably sounds stupid, but I'm laughing at how it's affecting all of you. Music is a powerful thing. Musicians/Performers, they can be called many things. There are many ways to get into a music industry but not all of them work out, and yes music moves on and we live our lives but we are free to rant about it.

You're still clearly advertising on TSR.