Does England benefit from the Union?
Discuss issues related to the politics of the UK, such as the actions of any MP, any current or potential law, or any other factor affecting the British political system.
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View Poll Results: Which is the best constitutional arrangement?
The home nations should be Independent 15 18.29% England should have its own devolved Parliament 36 43.90% Devolved assemblies should be abolished 16 19.51% Maintain the status quo 15 18.29%
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Does England benefit from the Union?Does England benefit from the Union? Would England be better served by having its own devolved Parliament or should all of the nations of the UK form an economic union of Independent nations?
I've noticed another forum discusses federalisation of the UK, but personally I don't see that happening.
The more likely outcome in my own opinion will be that following Scottish Independence, the remaining nations of the UK will go their separate ways. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-18080527
David Cameron has admitted defeat on the Scottish Referendum. The Scottish will be able to determine their own future when they wish. This should be welcomed and it should be the same for all nations of the UK. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?Although it would be sad to see the end of the United Kingdom i wouldn't mind seeing England an independent state for a few key reasons.
1. I believe England would be better off financially if it was independent. It would be ranked 8th in the world by GDP in comparison to the UK as a whole been ranked 7th.
2. It would be a great chance for reform e.g. direct democracy
3. Labour would become almost unelectable and we would finally have sensible governments that would allow us to prosper. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?Benefits everybody how? History is one thing, economic, defence, education and social policy matters are another.(Original post by ukip72)
The union benefits everybody. It would be a shame to see 300 years of history disappear.
For example, students from Republic of Ireland or NI students with Irish passports can get free tuition fees in Scotland - English students can't and nor can Welsh students. How does this benefit the Union? Does the Union still have a purpose in its current context? I believe the 4 nations should be independent but could cooperate closely on matters of the investment, education and defence.
With increasing devolved powers to the Scottish, a travel over the border from the North of England to Scotland will see differences in income tax, differences in prescription charges, differences in minimum price of alcohol per unit etc. Therefore, the union which stands to unite the people of the UK isn't so equal.
Take NI for example, corporation tax in the UK is much higher than in the Repubilc of Ireland. Travel 5 or 10 minuted across the Irish border, foreign investors are creating/opening businesses because of the lower corporation tax which NI cannot compete with. So a corporation tax set in London does not work for NI. Should such decisions not be made closer to home to suit each nation? -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?England would be in a bit of trouble in my opinion, in saying that I don't think Scotland would benefit from being independent either.
What I'd like is an English parliament for England only issues, then have a central government to deal with UK wide issues only. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?Hardly - it mostly benefits NI, Wales and Scotland...
Although there would be problems if we left. Like Severn Trent water is based in Wales and a lot of their water goes to the Midlands. Also the armed forces based in Scotland, and North Sea oil...
But in the end England would come out of it better than the other countries -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6264823.stm
2007 BBC poll found 61% of English people want their own Parliament. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?Scrap 1 and 2, you've convinced me(Original post by pr0view)
3. Labour would become almost unelectable and we would finally have sensible governments that would allow us to prosper.
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?NI is heavily subsidised by the UK and would probably unite with the Republic of Ireland. Scotland could stand on its own two feet no problem. Wales and England could have closer links.(Original post by ed-)
Hardly - it mostly benefits NI, Wales and Scotland...
Although there would be problems if we left. Like Severn Trent water is based in Wales and a lot of their water goes to the Midlands. Also the armed forces based in Scotland, and North Sea oil...
But in the end England would come out of it better than the other countries
Also, regarding the armed forces point you make, would army bases in Scotland not fall under a new Scottish army? Those bases are as equally Scottish as they are English. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?I must admit as much as i believe in the Union, seeing Labour wiped out would be great.(Original post by pr0view)
3. Labour would become almost unelectable and we would finally have sensible governments that would allow us to prosper.
Although sensible government would require the Tories to move back to the right. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?I wouldn't say no problem. The country's in trouble as it is in the union - unemployment and general economics.(Original post by Cmca1)
NI is heavily subsidised by the UK and would probably unite with the Republic of Ireland. Scotland could stand on its own two feet no problem. Wales and England could have closer links.
Also, regarding the armed forces point you make, would army bases in Scotland not fall under a new Scottish army? Those bases are as equally Scottish as they are English.
I'm not really sure how it works, but just because they're based there doesn't make them Scottish does it? Wouldn't they look at how much money each country had put into them or something? -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?Well, if Scotland leaves the Union, which I believe it will, you can minus 41 Scottish Labour MPs from the scenario straightaway. The Tories only have 1 Scottish MP, which is indicative of the varied attituted between Scotland and England.(Original post by ukip72)
I must admit as much as i believe in the Union, seeing Labour wiped out would be great.
Although sensible government would require the Tories to move back to the right. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?Debt and Assets of the UK would be divided between the nations of the Uk in proportion to population.(Original post by ed-)
I wouldn't say no problem. The country's in trouble as it is in the union - unemployment and general economics.
I'm not really sure how it works, but just because they're based there doesn't make them Scottish does it? Wouldn't they look at how much money each country had put into them or something?
And no, just because an Army base is in Scotland doesn't make it Scottish, but it doesn't make it English.
As for the problems Scotland is in within the UK, this demonstrates that as an independent nation, Scotland could regulate their own financial sector in Edinburgh, instead of having London do it for them. London and the greedy bankers have proved incompetent in managing the economy, it's no wonder the Scottish want to have a fresh start. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?I wouldn't mind the Tories if they became generally conservative and i think they would if England became independent. However like you i am a UKIP supporter. I could imagine in general elections UKIP becoming the 2nd party unless Lib Dems and Labour made some unholy alliance.(Original post by ukip72)
I must admit as much as i believe in the Union, seeing Labour wiped out would be great.
Although sensible government would require the Tories to move back to the right. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?I think another point mentioning in relation to the original question, is that under the UK, the English image or being proud of being English has not been served well.
Nowadays anyone who states they are proud to be English will immediately be rubbished as being supporters of the EDL, whereas, in NI, Wales and Scotland they can call themselves Irish/Welsh/Scottish and not be subjected to the same abuse.
England is a great country, but a lack of its own Parliament and this overriding idea of being British have deteriorated the image of the English nationality.
There's the Scottish National Party ( http://www.snp.org/ ), Plaid Cymru ( http://www.english.plaidcymru.org/ ) and Sinn Fein/SDLP in NI, all of whom support independence for their own nations, yet what is the English equivalent? - http://www.voteenglish.org/ not very much support it would seem.Last edited by Cmca1; 15-05-2012 at 21:08. -
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Re: Does England benefit from the Union?Well as much as I would love UKIP to be the 2nd largest party we'd need PR as FPTP screws us out of any seats.(Original post by pr0view)
I wouldn't mind the Tories if they became generally conservative and i think they would if England became independent. However like you i am a UKIP supporter. I could imagine in general elections UKIP becoming the 2nd party unless Lib Dems and Labour made some unholy alliance.
If it meant keeping out a potential Tory/UKIP alliance out they probably would form an alliance.
