[JPKC]

(Original post by Rakas21)
Whilst the design is better (though i would want a connection to Wales as well) i think that with the timescale involved for completion we should be going as fast as HS2 though the cost incurred would probably mean that High speed north (with a Welsh extention) would be a better option and something to be considered.

Good. I think that going to Wales would need to be justified - there's only a few million there compared to, say, the larger population up North. It should be a supplementary addition after IMO, same with Bristol and the SW.

You need to delete some messages in your inbox btw, it's reached capacity.

[Morgsie]

The GWML is being electrified to Cardiff

[Rakas21]

(Original post by stanlas)
As a matter of interest, why are you becomming the transport secretary yourself when you are already prime minister? It just seems that it might have been better to give the job to a Conservative MP who dosen't really have a proper role at the moment (maybe even given it to Jacob W; its certainly more important than culture sec.)

Also, what is the government's actual stance on transport (as opposed to the previous transport sec's views)?

Two reasons..

1) I actually know a lot about transport (i effectively acted as transport spokesman last term and did significant research)

2) The reshuffle will not occur until the beggining of next month and we need a spokesman now.

We want to remove the monopoly of Network Rail and encourage competition to drive down prices, we will seek to institute measures along these lines and i will be attempting to enact these policies very soon.

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by JPKC)
Good. I think that going to Wales would need to be justified - there's only a few million there compared to, say, the larger population up North. It should be a supplementary addition after IMO, same with Bristol and the SW.

You need to delete some messages in your inbox btw, it's reached capacity.

Extending HS2 to Wales would be fiscal madness but electrifying the lines makes perfect business sense. At the moment there isn't a single mile of electrified track anywhere in Wales and it is hampering the economy. It takes, for instance, 3 hours to travel from Aberystwyth to Birmingham by train. It takes an hour to travel between Cardiff and Swansea, the best part of 6 hours from Holyhead to Cardiff, 4 hours to Manchester, and an hour to travel the less than 30 miles from Merthyr to Cardiff. Coupled with ageing trains and some of the oldest lines in Europe, it's not hard to see why upgrading the lines and the rolling stock can be justified on several grounds.

[Morgsie]

(Original post by Rakas21)
Two reasons..

1) I actually know a lot about transport (i effectively acted as transport spokesman last term and did significant research)

2) The reshuffle will not occur until the beggining of next month and we need a spokesman now.

We want to remove the monopoly of Network Rail and encourage competition to drive down prices, we will seek to institute measures along these lines and i will be attempting to enact these policies very soon.

I would like to mention that I am Acting Transport Spokesman for the Lib Dem's until a reshuffle.

You know where I stand, reform of Network Rail, vertical integration etc.

[Rakas21]

(Original post by JPKC)
Good. I think that going to Wales would need to be justified - there's only a few million there compared to, say, the larger population up North. It should be a supplementary addition after IMO, same with Bristol and the SW.

You need to delete some messages in your inbox btw, it's reached capacity.

Can receive messages now.

Indeed, i would be wanting the extension to be something along the lines of London-Southampton-Portsmouth-Bristol-Cardiff for the reason that Hampshire is actually a fairly large economic area (when all the cities in the region are combined) and Wales needs vast regeneration and a high speed link to London i believe would aid this (though i would put a detailed case forward if we made a move on high speed rail).

[Rakas21]

(Original post by Morgsie)
I would like to mention that I am Acting Transport Spokesman for the Lib Dem's until a reshuffle.

You know where I stand, reform of Network Rail, vertical integration etc.

Indeed, as alluded to last term our views are very compatible and i shall be contacting both yourself and the Libertarians in relation to reform along these lines.

[JPKC]

(Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
Extending HS2 to Wales would be fiscal madness but electrifying the lines makes perfect business sense. At the moment there isn't a single mile of electrified track anywhere in Wales and it is hampering the economy. It takes, for instance, 3 hours to travel from Aberystwyth to Birmingham by train. It takes an hour to travel between Cardiff and Swansea, the best part of 6 hours from Holyhead to Cardiff, 4 hours to Manchester, and an hour to travel the less than 30 miles from Merthyr to Cardiff. Coupled with ageing trains and some of the oldest lines in Europe, it's not hard to see why upgrading the lines and the rolling stock can be justified on several grounds.

Didn't realise things were that bad.

And as for high-speed rail, I'm pretty certain that the cost of constructing it will decrease as time passes. Perhaps one day it'll be economical to build HS to Cardiff, until then it should just remain a possibility.

[Rakas21]

(Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
Extending HS2 to Wales would be fiscal madness but electrifying the lines makes perfect business sense. At the moment there isn't a single mile of electrified track anywhere in Wales and it is hampering the economy. It takes, for instance, 3 hours to travel from Aberystwyth to Birmingham by train. It takes an hour to travel between Cardiff and Swansea, the best part of 6 hours from Holyhead to Cardiff, 4 hours to Manchester, and an hour to travel the less than 30 miles from Merthyr to Cardiff. Coupled with ageing trains and some of the oldest lines in Europe, it's not hard to see why upgrading the lines and the rolling stock can be justified on several grounds.

Is this not devolved to the Welsh assembly?

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by Rakas21)
Is this not devolved to the Welsh assembly?

Well no not really: the franchises are still in private hands and Network Rail is a national organisation. The Welsh Assembly has put in funding to re-open the line to Ebbw Vale and the Valleys got lots of European money to put in double loops to increase efficiency but it hasn't improved times. Put it this way, if I get on the train in Pontypridd it takes me 30 minutes to reach Cardiff Central. That's a journey of 12 miles. People think they have it bad on their trains have never travelled on the Welsh network. Aside perhaps from the Cornish lines it's the worst the whole of the UK.

[Morgsie]

The Welsh Government has the power of awarding Franchises. Major infrastructure lies with Westminister.

I think, I am not sure.

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by JPKC)
Didn't realise things were that bad.

And as for high-speed rail, I'm pretty certain that the cost of constructing it will decrease as time passes. Perhaps one day it'll be economical to build HS to Cardiff, until then it should just remain a possibility.

But high-speed rail isn't really that necessary. Electrifying the line between Cardiff and London will get times to about 2 hours, that's a reasonable journey for anyone. It'd only be 90 minutes from Birmingham on one of the best lines in the country, after all. And I fail to see why you stop at Cardiff all the time. The trains run through to Swansea and the line should run to Swansea unless you insist on having electric-diesel hybrids simply to pull the last 40 miles to Swansea for sheer lack of vision and knowledge.

[JPKC]

(Original post by Rakas21)
Can receive messages now.

Hmmm. It's not working yet...

Indeed, i would be wanting the extension to be something along the lines of London-Southampton-Portsmouth-Bristol-Cardiff for the reason that Hampshire is actually a fairly large economic area (when all the cities in the region are combined) and Wales needs vast regeneration and a high speed link to London i believe would aid this (though i would put a detailed case forward if we made a move on high speed rail).

That sounds good, but as Adorno said, cost is a factor. I'm not sure how worthwhile it'd be. Also, the South generally has more investment - the North should definitely be prioritised over places like Hampshire.

(Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
But high-speed rail isn't really that necessary. Electrifying the line between Cardiff and London will get times to about 2 hours, that's a reasonable journey for anyone. It'd only be 90 minutes from Birmingham on one of the best lines in the country, after all. And I fail to see why you stop at Cardiff all the time. The trains run through to Swansea and the line should run to Swansea unless you insist on having electric-diesel hybrids simply to pull the last 40 miles to Swansea for sheer lack of vision and knowledge.

I'm by no means an expert on railways, so I'll cede to your judgement until I can be bothered to check out this subject in any depth. Hearing about the benefits that HS rail could bring to areas like the North, it's not ridiculous to infer that Wales would have similar positives.

[Rakas21]

(Original post by Morgsie)
The Welsh Government has the power of awarding Franchises. Major infrastructure lies with Westminister.

I think, I am not sure.

Rail infrastructure in Wales is still done via Network Rail which receives its funding from Westminster as you say however if the Welsh assembly wish to pay for electrification then they can use their grant as seen with the new route.

[Rakas21]

(Original post by JPKC)
Hmmm. It's not working yet...

That sounds good, but as Adorno said, cost is a factor. I'm not sure how worthwhile it'd be. Also, the South generally has more investment - the North should definitely be prioritised over places like Hampshire.

I'm by no means an expert on railways, so I'll cede to your judgement until I can be bothered to check out this subject in any depth. Hearing about the benefits that HS rail could bring to areas like the North, it's not ridiculous to infer that Wales would have similar positives.

Try now.

London gets significant investment but the south is not a hugely significant amount more in general and places like Hampshire can in some cases be overlooked in favour of London although i have plans for a bill expanding the London assembly (technically it would be a regional assembly but no reason to change the name) which would cover the extension to there.

The main reason for the massive benefit in the north is that Manchester and Leeds are already the 3rd and 4th richest cities in England nominally (probably the UK but not sure how rich Edinburgh is) and a high speed connection amplifies this, Cardiff/Swansea would not see such a massive benefit but the net result would still likely be positive.

[Birchington]

I fully support the electrification of the Midland Mainline.

[Morgsie]

How much will the Electrification of the MML cost?
Where would the Class 222 Meridians go once electrified?

[stanlas]

(Original post by Morgsie)
How much will the Electrification of the MML cost?
Where would the Class 222 Meridians go once electrified?

£530 million I think (according to the recent debate).
The trains should obviously be replaced by electric ones (not sure which type; maybe some type of pendolino?). The Meridians should be either sold (if anyone wants to buy them) or more likely transferred to other non-electrified lines.

[Slosh]

Firstly, I would have supported UK Ultraspeed because it's better in the vast majority of aspects

Having compared the facts given out by both HS2 and UK Ultraspeed I only see one advantage to HS2, which is number of people per hour. But the number of advantages from UKU, being higher than 1, makes HS2 depressing.

(The Japanese Lib Dems set out to have, by a year after HS2 opens, a high speed intercity MAGLEV train hitting 500kmh (400kmh? HS2 pls...) between Tokyo and Osaka. And before anyone goes comparing prices the Japanese one is earthquake proof. Also the Chinese claim that they'll have an operational vactrain in 10 years time, and actually already have an operational 500kmh Transrapid maglev.)

Even the one advantage of HS2 has potential to not deliver. One every three minutes? This is Britain we can't handle one every half an hour :P but seriously, going to be interesting to see what happens when leaves are on the tracks.

And as I'm here, another argument I heard for HS2 was the youth like to travel. In Germany you can get to anywhere in the country (and even small bits of other ones) spontaneously for 42€, or if it's a weekend, 40€ BETWEEN up to five people. Nationalised rail ftw

[stanlas]

(Original post by TheCrackInTime)
QFA

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