[ChubbyWatermelon]

Hello everyone,
Before I start of with my theories, I just wanted to inform whoever is reading this thread that they should be open minded. Some of the details here might offend you. However, if you are willing to accept other people's ideas, discussing the realms of the Christian religions, please read on.

I am a Catholic. I was born one actually, I never got to choose what religion I was, and since I was a kid, the "catholic ways" were being fed to me. But, now, I think to myself, is it really accurate? Should I believe in ancestral ways in a modernizing world? What is my religion truly about.

So that is why I am doubtful.

Pornography. Tattoos. Piercings. According many catholics, it is a sin. 'We must not change what God had created', They say. But, aren't these things part of our everyday lives? and if so, do we shun those who do commit these so called 'sins'.

Is homosexuality a sin? Many people say that they CHOOSE to be homosexuals? But, think about it, would they choose a life of torment from our 21st century society? I THink not, they were born this way. And if they were born that way, with a different way of thinking, is it not god who created him?

AH AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON EVOLUTION! There is this huge debate God vs. theory of evolution. Anyone stopped to think, maybe God made evolution take place. Maybe he say little flaws of creatures and decided to make them adapt. Tweeking them.

So these are just a few issues, that i thought were quite debatable. I know this might sound silly to people, but I dont remember the last time God punished someone for having pre-marital sex, or watching internet porn. I think the last 5 commandments are the most vital.

P.S. In some churches, they make people say certain 'prayers', basically making people say what the church want them to say. That is just crap. You should be able to say what you want to God, when you go to church. Church is supposed to bring to closer to God. The idea of this type of prayer is a facade on the true Christian.

[killa78]

Isn't the point that you're punished after you die?

Ie. heaven and hell.
That's where the real accountability takes place?

That's why you haven't experienced the punishment. Unless you're a zombie
But then that falsifies religion D:

[iSoftie]

(Original post by saachi)
I just answered your other thread and mentioned homosexuality, which I repeat, is definitely NOT a sin. Who would choose a life of humiliation, suppression, and even torture in the earlier centuries? Why would anyone choose to be ostracized and outecasted? (I'm talking about before, when it was less accepted).

Think of it this way, did you suddenly hit the age of twelve and were faced with a choice- men or women? No, you probably found yourself attracted to the opposite sex without really thinking about it or 'deciding'. Homosexuals are attracted to the same sex in the same way. Nothing horrifying, it's still all hormones and attraction and love at the end of the day! The being you call God, I like to think of as light and the energy which governs the laws of nature. Sort of like religion infused with science... I know, ironic but that's what I prefer to believe. From that perspective, everything that nature generated was there for a purpose.

Yeah 'making' people pray = major insecurities.

PS: It's really rare to find people like you, OP The only self- proclaimed Christians I've met have been fanatically religious and take everything in the Bible literally, it's nice to see someone's questioning bigotry and manmade rubbish while still rooted in the realm of spirituality

Yawn.
Biased.

I'd say homosexuality is a sin but that is debateable so I can't just state it so but I believe it so and live by the fact thinking it's a sin because that's what you call faith.

(And there goes the homos who negged me.)

[Torpedo Fish]

With reference to your point about evolution: The God inferred in Catholicism is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent (all knowing and all powerful). Thus his creations should therefore be perfect unless, of course, he intended them not to be from the outset. If this was indeed his intention, why would he then proceed to "tweak" them for hundreds of millions of years? Considering that he supposedly made the world in 6 days, it seems somewhat inconsistent that it should take him so much longer to make them "adapt". Not to mention; why not just make them perfect in the first place?

[ChubbyWatermelon]

(Original post by iSoftie)
Yawn.
Biased.

I'd say homosexuality is a sin but that is debateable so I can't just state it so but I believe it so and live by the fact thinking it's a sin because that's what you call faith.

Sorry, but i would have to disagree. Faith is not the condemnation of others. By making homosexuality a sin, you are basically condemning a group of people branding them sinners because of the way they feel or think. It is like branding people sinners if they like the color blue or red.

All in all i do appreciate your post though. What you believe is your own right?

[ChubbyWatermelon]

(Original post by Torpedo Fish)
With reference to your point about evolution: The God inferred in Catholicism is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent (all knowing and all powerful). Thus his creations should therefore be perfect unless, of course, he intended them not to be from the outset. If this was indeed his intention, why would he then proceed to "tweak" them for hundreds of millions of years? Considering that he supposedly made the world in 6 days, it seems somewhat inconsistent that it should take him so much longer to make them "adapt". Not to mention; why not just make them perfect in the first place?

That is a very good argument. I didn't really think of it myself. I know this might sound stupid, but this is what i feel. We are basically Gods doodles. His designs. (people who believed in greek mythology also believes in this kinda way). So hypothetically, if we say that we are a model of god, (as the bible says), then similar to how to alter our designs, God may have wanted to alter his.

Just, a theory! ^_^

[ChubbyWatermelon]

(Original post by killa78)
Isn't the point that you're punished after you die?

Ie. heaven and hell.
That's where the real accountability takes place?

That's why you haven't experienced the punishment. Unless you're a zombie
But then that falsifies religion D:

Well, what I believe is that throughout our lives, we are faced with many obstacles. These obstacles are signs for you to change your ways or essentially to test you. I don't think God would keep a record book of when everyone sinned and then after you die make you go to heaven or hell or purgatory, but i believe that he would make us change our ways, while we are alive. To make us repent for our sins and to glorify our good-doings. Therefore, by the time we die, the end result is what that matters, making you go to heaven or hell.

[Torpedo Fish]

(Original post by ChubbyWatermelon)
That is a very good argument. I didn't really think of it myself. I know this might sound stupid, but this is what i feel. We are basically Gods doodles. His designs. (people who believed in greek mythology also believes in this kinda way). So hypothetically, if we say that we are a model of god, (as the bible says), then similar to how to alter our designs, God may have wanted to alter his.

Just, a theory! ^_^

Here's what I think (also just a theory ^_^)

Life is just what matter does given enough time and the right conditions; we are the cosmos made conscious.

We created God, rather than the other way around, in order to explain the complexity we observed around and within us. We filled the holes in our understanding with creation myths that gave our lives significance, our curiosities answers and our moral decisions meaning and consequence.

As the scientific method, observation and logic began to reveal certain truths, organized religions evolved and adapted in order to survive in the modern world and they continue to do so to this day.

[ChubbyWatermelon]

(Original post by Torpedo Fish)
Here's what I think (also just a theory ^_^)

Life is just what matter does given enough time and the right conditions; we are the cosmos made conscious.

We created God, rather than the other way around, in order to explain the complexity we observed around and within us. We filled the holes in our understanding with creation myths that gave our lives significance, our curiosities answers and our moral decisions meaning and consequence.

As the scientific method, observation and logic began to reveal certain truths, organized religions evolved and adapted in order to survive in the modern world and they continue to do so to this day.

Actually I must admit to some extent, i too believe that man might have created God. I also believe in the Evolution theory. You make a very good argument. ^_^

However, I also believe that the fact that people view god to be of the "almighty creator" does have a good consequences. I mean, we develop a conscience of guilt and so forth, some people more intensely than others due to the fact that they believe that god is present.

[Torpedo Fish]

(Original post by ChubbyWatermelon)
Actually I must admit to some extent, i too believe that man might have created God. I also believe in the Evolution theory. You make a very good argument. ^_^

However, I also believe that the fact that people view god to be of the "almighty creator" does have a good consequences. I mean, we develop a conscience of guilt and so forth, some people more intensely than others due to the fact that they believe that god is present.

I agree that many religions, for the most part, encourage humans to behave in a beneficial manner both towards themselves and others. Religious faith can inspire acts of great benevolence and philanthropy whilst discouraging acts of selfishness and greed. Unfortunately, religion can also sometimes be used by people to invoke fear, intolerance and hate of certain groups. I would cite the Christian Crusades as an example. Still, over the centuries religion as a whole has probably done more good than harm.

[iSoftie]

(Original post by ChubbyWatermelon)
Sorry, but i would have to disagree. Faith is not the condemnation of others. By making homosexuality a sin, you are basically condemning a group of people branding them sinners because of the way they feel or think. It is like branding people sinners if they like the color blue or red.

All in all i do appreciate your post though. What you believe is your own right?

I don't know what you mean by my own right o.o

I see what you mean as sinners but don't forget we all sin! I'm a sinner yet I'm a Christian but the difference is it is obviously frowned on (homosexuality) on the Christian faith and sometimes taken into an extreme.
I myself just see it as this: I won't do/be a homosexual or anything close to the sort simply because I've been instructed not to do/believe not to do so.

I brand everyone as a sinner and everyone should be branded as a sinner but from where my faith works: you just have to choose between heaven and hell, by following what the Lord says and you have to be as Christian as possible by not branding/marking/ostracising gays but more like teach them and if they don't want to know then leave it be.

Everyone makes life the way they want it.
(I don't see how homosexuality is natural, I swear it's just a choice- some people are leaned forward of doing it more than others?) Not to mention, some people change their way they lead life when they turn gay -not in a bad way, just very "different"-.

[Hype en Ecosse]

(Original post by ChubbyWatermelon)
Is homosexuality a sin? Many people say that they CHOOSE to be homosexuals? But, think about it, would they choose a life of torment from our 21st century society? I THink not, they were born this way. And if they were born that way, with a different way of thinking, is it not god who created him?

Agreed.

AH AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON EVOLUTION! There is this huge debate God vs. theory of evolution. Anyone stopped to think, maybe God made evolution take place. Maybe he say little flaws of creatures and decided to make them adapt. Tweeking them.

Not a very good god if he produced something with loads of little flaws. Besides, there shouldn't be any debate. Evolution has won. The other side is just a bunch of retards with their fingers in their ears.

So these are just a few issues, that i thought were quite debatable. I know this might sound silly to people, but I dont remember the last time God punished someone for having pre-marital sex, or watching internet porn.

I don't remember the last time God punished anyone for anything.

I think the last 5 commandments are the most vital.

Yes. Especially the last one that convicts people of thoughtcrime and puts one's wife on par with one's house, ox and ass.

[ChubbyWatermelon]

(Original post by iSoftie)
I don't know what you mean by my own right o.o

I see what you mean as sinners but don't forget we all sin! I'm a sinner yet I'm a Christian but the difference is it is obviously frowned on (homosexuality) on the Christian faith and sometimes taken into an extreme.
I myself just see it as this: I won't do/be a homosexual or anything close to the sort simply because I've been instructed not to do/believe not to do so.

I brand everyone as a sinner and everyone should be branded as a sinner but from where my faith works: you just have to choose between heaven and hell, by following what the Lord says and you have to be as Christian as possible by not branding/marking/ostracising gays but more like teach them and if they don't want to know then leave it be.

Everyone makes life the way they want it.
(I don't see how homosexuality is natural, I swear it's just a choice- some people are leaned forward of doing it more than others?) Not to mention, some people change their way they lead life when they turn gay -not in a bad way, just very "different"-.

Hehe, ok what i meant is that you can believe what you wish because it is your right to have an opinion.
Ture, everyone does sin, but i would not call everyone sinners. It is those who do not understand what they have done wrong that are the sinners, and furthermore, tose who admit they have done wrong and yet do it again.

Homosexuality, what i believe, is not a choice. Why would people choose to live a life of torment where their lifestyle is considered wrong by many. This is going to be quite vivid gruesome, but, when I discussed the choice of homosexuality with Pentecost believers, they state that homosexuals choose their lifestyle because of anal sex. (of course that is rubbish... you can do that with a girl too... -.-) so other than that, why CHOOSE homosexuality when you will be continuously instructed to do otherwise?

[Lilio Candidior]

Tattos and fashion choices like it are obviously not sins, however pornography is a terrible and foul thing and most certainly sinful. I am continually horrified that something that is so degrading to human dignity and the source of immense suffering is commonly accepted as normal. What is even more horrifying is that it is so broadly accepted because it's pleasurable. Why doesn't anyone realise that by watching pornography, you are collaborating with an industry that entails systematic degredation of the wonderful thing that sex is, the perpetuation of misogyny and robs human beings of their inherrent value by dehumanizing them, only so you can whack off? Anything that dehumanizes people should be shunned, and there are few things so dehumanizing as pornography. Pornography, no matter what religious affiliation you are, should by any person with the heart in the right place, anyone with even an ounce of compassion, be viewed as utterly inhumane.

[iSoftie]

(Original post by ChubbyWatermelon)
Sorry, but i would have to disagree. Faith is not the condemnation of others. By making homosexuality a sin, you are basically condemning a group of people branding them sinners because of the way they feel or think. It is like branding people sinners if they like the color blue or red.

All in all i do appreciate your post though. What you believe is your own right?

I sin? You sin? Since we all do certain things. I'm not branding anyone.

[JohnnytheFox]

(Original post by ChubbyWatermelon)

AH AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON EVOLUTION! There is this huge debate God vs. theory of evolution. Anyone stopped to think, maybe God made evolution take place. Maybe he say little flaws of creatures and decided to make them adapt. Tweeking them.

If God is unable to create a perfect creature and all his creations have "little flaws" that need to be corrected, does it not somewhat render the whole point of worshiping an onmipotent being kind of irrelevant?

Evolution isn't about correcting earlier mistakes either. Evolution is an arms race. Just take a look at HIV if you really want to see evolution in action; a constant battle between host and pathogen, each trying to constantly exploit the weaknesses of the other. Why would God in all his benevolent wisdom programme such a brutal mechanism?

[Alpharius]

(Original post by ChubbyWatermelon)
...

AH AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON EVOLUTION! There is this huge debate God vs. theory of evolution. Anyone stopped to think, maybe God made evolution take place. Maybe he say little flaws of creatures and decided to make them adapt. Tweeking them.

...

There isn't a debate. Evolution won it 150 years ago. There's no debate because all the evidence is on one side (evolution), and religion is faith based. Evidence doesn't care what people believe in.

And then after all of the denial, when it was obvious religion had lost, what did it do? It changed.

"Ah, God's caused evolution!"

(Original post by iSoftie)
Yawn.
Biased.

I'd say homosexuality is a sin but that is debateable so I can't just state it so but I believe it so and live by the fact thinking it's a sin because that's what you call faith.

(And there goes the homo who negged me.)

The irony in this response is killing me. The worse thing is, you don't realise how bias you are.

[justmyopinions]

(Original post by ChubbyWatermelon)
Hello everyone,
Before I start of with my theories, I just wanted to inform whoever is reading this thread that they should be open minded. Some of the details here might offend you. However, if you are willing to accept other people's ideas, discussing the realms of the Christian religions, please read on.

I am a Catholic. I was born one actually, I never got to choose what religion I was, and since I was a kid, the "catholic ways" were being fed to me. But, now, I think to myself, is it really accurate? Should I believe in ancestral ways in a modernizing world? What is my religion truly about.

So that is why I am doubtful.

Pornography. Tattoos. Piercings. According many catholics, it is a sin. 'We must not change what God had created', They say. But, aren't these things part of our everyday lives? and if so, do we shun those who do commit these so called 'sins'.

Is homosexuality a sin? Many people say that they CHOOSE to be homosexuals? But, think about it, would they choose a life of torment from our 21st century society? I THink not, they were born this way. And if they were born that way, with a different way of thinking, is it not god who created him?

AH AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON EVOLUTION! There is this huge debate God vs. theory of evolution. Anyone stopped to think, maybe God made evolution take place. Maybe he say little flaws of creatures and decided to make them adapt. Tweeking them.

So these are just a few issues, that i thought were quite debatable. I know this might sound silly to people, but I dont remember the last time God punished someone for having pre-marital sex, or watching internet porn. I think the last 5 commandments are the most vital.

P.S. In some churches, they make people say certain 'prayers', basically making people say what the church want them to say. That is just crap. You should be able to say what you want to God, when you go to church. Church is supposed to bring to closer to God. The idea of this type of prayer is a facade on the true Christian.

Hey
First of all I want to say that Catholicism, like other forms of Christianity, involves having faith in Jesus and God, who are one.
I will also add that the Bible was written by humans. God loves everybody and created everyone equal.
Jesus = Forgiveness. Any "sins" you carry out are forgiven (I "" sins because I don't believe homosexuality to be a sin. God created everyone for a purpose).

Catholicism is very strict, you could easily leave but that doesn't mean you need to give up Jesus. If you believe Jesus was the son of God then it doesn't matter if you're a Catholic, or Protestant, or Orthodox.

I will also add that I do not believe in evolution. However, I have heard the argument that some Christians do believe in evolution. After all, God could have, I guess, driven evolution during the 7 days he created the universe. After all, was it a waste of time if it occured before time began?



Conclusion: Leave Catholicism if you want, Jesus still loves you. Also, I'm pretty sure you will not go to Hell if you get a tattoo :L

[justmyopinions]

(Original post by Torpedo Fish)
With reference to your point about evolution: The God inferred in Catholicism is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent (all knowing and all powerful). Thus his creations should therefore be perfect unless, of course, he intended them not to be from the outset. If this was indeed his intention, why would he then proceed to "tweak" them for hundreds of millions of years? Considering that he supposedly made the world in 6 days, it seems somewhat inconsistent that it should take him so much longer to make them "adapt". Not to mention; why not just make them perfect in the first place?

Was it a waste of time if it occured before time began? science shows that it is possible for time to be distorted (well, it's a theory). therefore, the "6 days" may have been millions of years.
Also, God does think. I guess He (I say he, even though God is not a male) would add the water, then earth, then decide to add animals, and eventually us?

[ChubbyWatermelon]

(Original post by JohnnytheFox)
If God is unable to create a perfect creature and all his creations have "little flaws" that need to be corrected, does it not somewhat render the whole point of worshiping an onmipotent being kind of irrelevant?

Evolution isn't about correcting earlier mistakes either. Evolution is an arms race. Just take a look at HIV if you really want to see evolution in action; a constant battle between host and pathogen, each trying to constantly exploit the weaknesses of the other. Why would God in all his benevolent wisdom programme such a brutal mechanism?

well if i knew God's intensions i would be the new messiah. But there is a purpose for everything. Even the HIV virus. Probably a backlash on excessive sex? I dunno. Like i said, i withdrew my comment on the evolution. It was just a theory.