Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

If you were in charge of Greece

Announcements Posted on
Live webchat: Myths and facts on Student Finance - on TSR from 2pm! 15-09-2014
Got a question about Student Finance? Ask the experts this week on TSR! 14-09-2014
  • View Poll Results: What would you do if you were in charge of Greece
    Accept the bailout and impose austerity
    22
    26.83%
    Abandon the Euro, default but remain part of the EU
    26
    31.71%
    Quit the Euro, declare bankruptcy and leave the EU completely
    34
    41.46%

    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
    How tedious. Do some research please.
    All new EU member states must join the Eurozone.

    It is only because we opted out that we do not have to.

    Those countries listed which are currently in the EU but not the Eurozone have a commitment to join the Euro within a reasonable amount of time.

    If Greece pulls out of the Euro, but remains within the EU it will undermine this principle and confidence in the Euro.
    Eurozone membership is not a must but merely a flexible obligation. This is like any other Treaty within the EU of which there are exceptions all over the place. No state, not even the EU itself, pretends that European-wide legislation is in anyway enforced to every member state equally, if at all.

    So what is going to stop the Greeks getting back to the Drachma and thus be at the same level as the other non-Eurozone EU members states? If anything EU member states would be likely supportive of such a move.
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Bet every penny they have on themselves leaving the Euro at 9/4 odds with William Hill. Re-enter the euro then repeat until out of debt= profit

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	trollface (2).jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	45.4 KB 
ID:	148461
    • 11 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by floridadad55)
    What the Greek's call austerity, most of the rest of the world calls living within your means.

    You can't pay your gov't workers large salaries and pensions, if you don't have a prosperous economy to sustain them.

    Under Merkel, Germany has been making the tough decisions for a long time now, and living within their means, and Germany has prospered as a result, while most of the rest of Europe has refused to impose austerity. The UK should be commended for imposing some "austerity".

    The truth though, is that whatever austerity has been imposed has been much LESS than is truly needed.

    Sarzoky's austerity program was very mild and watered down, and even that, the people of France considered too painful.

    A country might decide to reject austerity, but if they do, they will be punished in the marketplace, with capital flowing to those countries that get their house in order.

    As an American, I can tell you that America's turn is soon coming. We have been racking up massive deficits, first under Bush, and now, three times worse
    under Obama. These massive government expenditures have produced very little of value. Much of the money has been wasted or stolen, or used to prevent the layoffs of government workers, many of whom never should have been hired to begin with.

    If the economy doesn't improve overnight after imposing austerity, that doesn't mean that austerity is not "working". This will be a long term process, like someone is is way overweight going on a diet, losing a pound a week. Results might not become apparent for a while.
    This. All this 'If you can't afford it just get a loan' nonsense has gone on for far too long.

    <3 x
    • 15 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    the way i see it is there damned either way ... austerity isnt working and has sufficiently damaged their economy that the chances of this trend being reversed in the nearish future are zilch and if they leave the euro, declaring bankruptsy, their economy will still be destroyed and they wont be able to borrow any form of money for many years to come without paying an interest rate thatll make your eyes water.. if they leave but dont declare bankrupsy ... well they will they have no hope of paying off the debt and theyll be unelgiable for bailout loans from the EU anymore would they not and theyll go bankrupt anyway?

    basically either way greece is well and truly buggered.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Leave the Euro, adopt a devalued Drachma and embark upon a huge international marketing campaign, aimed at attracting inward investment from foreign companies, who'd benefit from a skilled workforce with high unemployment rate and significantly lower wages than the rest of the EU, even Eastern Europe.

    A similar thing could be done for tourism - Greece used to be a very popular cheap holiday destination, but in recent years the value of the Euro has stifled this and led to a huge increase in popularity of nearby non-Eurozone countries, such as Turkey, Bulgaria, Croatia and Egypt.
    • 32 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    This should belong in the International Forum
    • 36 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Apologies but I feel like I have to shout this: STATE BANKRUPTCY DOESN'T MEAN A COUNTRY HAS TO DITCH THE CURRENCY!!

    The state is but one part of the economy, if a large British firm like Tescos went broke would it mean we'd have to ditch the £? Of course not. So why do so many people falsly conclude that Greek state bankruptcy means an inevitable Euro withdrawal?

    If I was in charge now I'd follow the Iclelandic model. I'd retain the Euro (which most Greeks want btw) stop all state guarantees to the private banking sector and default on a large proportion of gov't bonds. Then I'd fix the domestic economy with fiscal reform. Even Mervin King the Bank of England chief said this morning that the Eurozone is insolvent and has no hope of recovery until they deal with the debt once and for all (bankruptcy).
    • 36 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EssexDan86)
    Leave the Euro, adopt a devalued Drachma and embark upon a huge international marketing campaign, aimed at attracting inward investment from foreign companies, who'd benefit from a skilled workforce with high unemployment rate and significantly lower wages than the rest of the EU, even Eastern Europe.

    A similar thing could be done for tourism - Greece used to be a very popular cheap holiday destination, but in recent years the value of the Euro has stifled this and led to a huge increase in popularity of nearby non-Eurozone countries, such as Turkey, Bulgaria, Croatia and Egypt.
    The main problem Greece suffers is not a strong currency but corruption in the public and private spheres. Corruption in the public sphere because the government is fiscally incontinent and corruption in the private sphere because tax evasion is a national passtime. Changing the name of their currency from 'Euro' to 'Drachma' does nothing to address these two key flaws.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I'd devolve the country back into competing city-states; Athens vs. Sparta 2.0!
    • 36 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Introduce a debt free national currency to operate along side the Euro. I cannot see doing this causing in particular harm in the short term, unlike every other option.

    This currency should be good for the payment of taxes and debts. And public sector workers should be paid in the currency to get it to circulate. In addition welfare should be given to poor people in the form of this currency.
    There's no such thing as a debt free currency. They need to reject the EU's 'loans for austerity' packages and purge away as much debt as possible, then they can start rebuilding the domestic economy with a land value tax in exchange for much lower taxes on productivity, incomes and trade. The icing on the cake would be for Greece to leave the EU but join EFTA to draw a line under their involvment with the EU. The name of the currency they use is immaterial, many Greeks actually want to keep the Euro they just have a problem with the state's balance sheet.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Whilst the Euro remains in Greece it is hard for them to control their own monetary policy in order to grow their economy. I have no problem with spending cuts, but if you are cutting spending in order for it to be sapped out of the economy and pay back debt, then growth is extremely limited. There will be no benefits of remaining in the EU after they default so they should save themselves the lectures and wagging fingers and just leave.
    • 36 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by internetguru)
    Whilst the Euro remains in Greece it is hard for them to control their own monetary policy in order to grow their economy. I have no problem with spending cuts, but if you are cutting spending in order for it to be sapped out of the economy and pay back debt, then growth is extremely limited. There will be no benefits of remaining in the EU after they default so they should save themselves the lectures and wagging fingers and just leave.
    The problem isn't monetary policy it's fiscal policy. The Greek state has been spending far too much over the past decade and then employing clever accountancy tricks to cover up the debt. They've been acting like a giant reckless mediterranian hedge fund! If a company had been spending too much, earning too little and promising all their employees they could retire in luxury at 50 would anyone in their right mind recommend just altering the currency they use? I hope not because it doesn't solve the core issues.

    Until we can identify what is actually going wrong with clear language we have no hope of solving the Western 'banking' crisis, meddling with currencies to me sounds like the modern version of using leeches to cure all medical ailments. At best it's a wild stab in the dark.
    • 32 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    There's no such thing as a debt free currency.
    What do you think gold as a money is?

    Just because there are no debt free currencies at the moment, does not mean they cannot exist.
    • 11 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Get rid of all those damn Greeks and encourage immigration of those who pay their damn taxes.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I would default. Iceland did that and they're well on the road to recovery now. But it wouldn't be in the interest of our dear leaders for the media to tell us that.

    The Eurozone is being artificially propped up when it should have been allowed to fail. As an earlier poster alluded to, only then can we start to get back on our feet. The ultra rich might complain as they lose a bit of money, but it's for the best overall.
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Did greece bail out their banks?

    Its a whole 'nother kettle of fish to iceland.
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    There are no simple solutions to this Greek problem, while it is easy to say return to leave the Euro and all of the issues would be over, the reality of it is this will be as far away from the truth as possible. Also in a crisis like this introducing a new and most likely worthless currency won't help at all. Could look to the past for some quick lessons, namely the Latin American debt crisis. Much of these countries essentially dollarised their economy during that crisis time, it prevented things like hyper-inflation and essentially stabilized the economy albeit temporarily.

    The issue with Greece, the reality of it introducing a new currency won't help it much as it doesn't have huge amounts of exports. Essentially exports play a very small amount to their economy only US$25bil (2010 estimates) that's quite appalling for a country of that size when a country like Switzerland with no seaports does over US$300bil per year, in fact even Portugal which has just as much economic turmoil and of near similar economic activity exports US$50bil per annum. Therefore any notional suggestion that suddenly introducing a new currency would help their exports is generally a false one as it just doesn't have those industries and if you are going to compete on price then you come up against countries like China, India or just south of Greece, Turkey. Either way the hyper-inflation will cause products to be uncompetitive as a result of that new currency.

    If I were PM of Greece what I'd do is I'll come up with a statement and say NO we are not leaving the Euro, I'll impose austerity and then introduce a flat tax rate of 15% not just for individuals but also for companies and tell them that this rate would stay for 5 years. I'll then nationalize the utility, rails and some core/staple food production for a period of 5 years to control the prices temporarily. Military will be maintained but made to do civilian work temporarily such as guarding public places and tourism sites.

    Welfare = no cash payments of any kind. Instead those who have no job can get a voucher to buy food and basic necessities from one of the state stores.

    Then will start selling off or leasing/franchising out for 10-15 years any of the major islands or national assets to the highest bidder, after that would use the low tax to attract all the rich of the world to base themselves there and any company that hires 10 new employees would get a 3 year tax break. Once the debt is at an affordable level and the situation is less volatile I will call for a referendum on whether the people still want EU membership, if they don't then it would be easier to negotiate a way out without major implications or at least not those as severe as those Greece would face with a disorderly exit.

    While I don't see the Euro membership to be the be all and end all, but for now it is the lesser of all the other evils
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Herr)
    There are no simple solutions to this Greek problem, while it is easy to say return to leave the Euro and all of the issues would be over, the reality of it is this will be as far away from the truth as possible. Also in a crisis like this introducing a new and most likely worthless currency won't help at all. Could look to the past for some quick lessons, namely the Latin American debt crisis. Much of these countries essentially dollarised their economy during that crisis time, it prevented things like hyper-inflation and essentially stabilized the economy albeit temporarily.

    The issue with Greece, the reality of it introducing a new currency won't help it much as it doesn't have huge amounts of exports. Essentially exports play a very small amount to their economy only US$25bil (2010 estimates) that's quite appalling for a country of that size when a country like Switzerland with no seaports does over US$300bil per year, in fact even Portugal which has just as much economic turmoil and of near similar economic activity exports US$50bil per annum. Therefore any notional suggestion that suddenly introducing a new currency would help their exports is generally a false one as it just doesn't have those industries and if you are going to compete on price then you come up against countries like China, India or just south of Greece, Turkey. Either way the hyper-inflation will cause products to be uncompetitive as a result of that new currency.

    If I were PM of Greece what I'd do is I'll come up with a statement and say NO we are not leaving the Euro, I'll impose austerity and then introduce a flat tax rate of 15% not just for individuals but also for companies and tell them that this rate would stay for 5 years. I'll then nationalize the utility, rails and some core/staple food production for a period of 5 years to control the prices temporarily. Military will be maintained but made to do civilian work temporarily such as guarding public places and tourism sites.

    Welfare = no cash payments of any kind. Instead those who have no job can get a voucher to buy food and basic necessities from one of the state stores.

    Then will start selling off or leasing/franchising out for 10-15 years any of the major islands or national assets to the highest bidder, after that would use the low tax to attract all the rich of the world to base themselves there and any company that hires 10 new employees would get a 3 year tax break. Once the debt is at an affordable level and the situation is less volatile I will call for a referendum on whether the people still want EU membership, if they don't then it would be easier to negotiate a way out without major implications or at least not those as severe as those Greece would face with a disorderly exit.

    While I don't see the Euro membership to be the be all and end all, but for now it is the lesser of all the other evils
    Some interesting ideas, but 10 employees (e.g. on minimum wage) shouldn't be enough to qualify for a 3 year tax break - that's a huge loss of tax to the economy for a very small company size in real terms. Perhaps 20 as a threshold...
    • 36 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    What do you think gold as a money is?

    Just because there are no debt free currencies at the moment, does not mean they cannot exist.
    Why should Greece or any other country tie economy activity to the availability of a near useless yellow metal? Yes, in theory it solves the debt-money "problem" because it takes us back in time 300 years by reintroducing commodity backed barter, but unless you're willing to impose Soviet style restrictions so that nobody issues paper you'll never achieve a perfect Gold Standard.

    The solution to Greece's problems are simple: kick out the eurocrats, clean up the government and introduce a land value tax to replace the more damaging taxes on productivity and enterprise. Harking back to a Golden Era (no pun intended) that never really existed does nothing to address their structural failings.
    • 32 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    Why should Greece or any other country tie economy activity to the availability of a near useless yellow metal? Yes, in theory it solves the debt-money "problem" because it takes us back in time 300 years by reintroducing commodity backed barter, but unless you're willing to impose Soviet style restrictions so that nobody issues paper you'll never achieve a perfect Gold Standard.
    That was not my point. My point is that there are such things are debt free monies.

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: May 21, 2012
New on TSR

Writing your personal statement

Our free PS builder tool makes it easy

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.