[SexyNerd]

(Original post by chickenonsteroids)
we all rationalise*

Yes it would be, it's the most complex thing we have for determining morality, what is right or wrong. It's the reason why such debates even happen.

How do you know? Unless you want to attribute what you think is good or bad lol

so, its o.k to murder an innocent baby.

You've answered them briefly.

No. Where did I say that? You didn't even answer my question. Stop doing that.

answer what?

[chickenonsteroids]

(Original post by SexyNerd)
so, its o.k to murder an innocent baby.
answer what?

Talking with you is pointless. You haven't addressed anything i've said.

"so it's ok to murder babies." Thanks for that insightful response. Even though I said no earlier.

Bloody hell.

[Hype en Ecosse]

(Original post by SexyNerd)
o.k, so you don't think they were just wrong, plain and simple, regardless of what they thought of what you think, it was just wrong.

so, you think killing babies isn't wrong, its just down to your opinion?

No, I don't think they were just wrong, plain and simple. It can be argued from deontology that actions such as child-killing are perfectly good. Abraham being prepared to kill his son, is that immoral? God stopped him from doing it, but the intention was there. Abraham could easily say he was doing the right thing because he was following God's word.

See Exodus 11:1 - 12:30 where God kills all the firstborn children of Egyptians. The firstborn children of the Pharoah, to the slave, to the cattle. They will be teenagers, children, toddlers and babies. Is this immoral? Tell me, if killing a baby is objectively immoral, does that then make God objectively immoral?

If I were given divine revelation to kill a baby, deontological ethics would say that me killing this baby is perfectly moral. Similarly, if it were my duty to kill weak children because of overpopulation in my society, deontological ethics would say that my actions are right. And again in sacrificing a child to the gods, if that's what they decreed, then that action would be right.

The morality of an action is wholly subjective.

I feel like I'm being trolled.

[Gofre]

(Original post by SexyNerd)
so, what the nazi's did was O.k, because their society said it was, what they did wasn't just wrong, regardless of what they thought?

Stop being stupid. I did not say actions like this of any sort were ok, I was saying they are not wrong by any objective, transcendent frame of reference. I never said anything that would validate the actions of the Nazi regime. The model of morality I abide by, the same one you abide by which is certainly not the one outline in any of the abrahamic texts, regards it as despicable.

so, it wouldn't be wrong to murder an innocent baby.

No, it is not objectively wrong. Would you like me to repeat it again?

[justmyopinions]

(Original post by DomPugh)
Do you think the problem of evil is a significant challenge to theistic belief?

Erm not really. God have us free will. Also, when you look to science everything has an opposite, even matter with anti-matter. Logically, of you combine science an religion, evil will exist.

[justmyopinions]

(Original post by Gofre)
Stop being stupid. I did not say actions like this of any sort were ok, I was saying they are not wrong by any objective, transcendent frame of reference. I never said anything that would validate the actions of the Nazi regime. The model of morality I abide by, the same one you abide by which is certainly not the one outline in any of the abrahamic texts, regards it as despicable.



No, it is not objectively wrong. Would you like me to repeat it again?

Wait what? Killing babies is not wrong?

[Hype en Ecosse]

(Original post by justmyopinions)
Wait what? Killing babies is not wrong?

Jesus Christ, not another one.

[Gofre]

(Original post by justmyopinions)
Wait what? Killing babies is not wrong?

Are you people incapable of reading?

No, there is no objective moral standpoint which says "killing cute little bundles of joy is a bad thing". The subjective moral codes that we abide by do say this though. I feel like a bloody Alzheimer's patient the amount of times I have to repeat myself.

[DomPugh]

(Original post by justmyopinions)
Erm not really. God have us free will. Also, when you look to science everything has an opposite, even matter with anti-matter. Logically, of you combine science an religion, evil will exist.

Logically, there is a problem of evil. God (Judeo-Christian) is supposedly omni benevolent (all loving) and omni powerful (all powerful). Therefore, he is able to stop evil and wants to because he loves us. However, evil is commonplace across the world. This is a problem and has been recognised as one since Ancient Greek Times (Epicurus)

[DomPugh]

(Original post by SexyNerd)
so, what the nazi's did was O.k, because their society said it was, what they did wasn't just wrong, regardless of what they thought?

so, it wouldn't be wrong to murder an innocent baby.

I am quite uncomfortable with your words "what the nazi's was o.k". Its pretty well accepted that the murder of 4 million people is wrong. Cultural Relativism, as seen in your argument, is problematic with such things that are clearly intrinsically wrong.

[justmyopinions]

(Original post by DomPugh)
Logically, there is a problem of evil. God (Judeo-Christian) is supposedly omni benevolent (all loving) and omni powerful (all powerful). Therefore, he is able to stop evil and wants to because he loves us. However, evil is commonplace across the world. This is a problem and has been recognised as one since Ancient Greek Times (Epicurus)

Yea actually though evil will exist. However, from a religious stance, God does get rid of evil. In Jewish culture they believe that an evil soul will cease to exist after death, whilst Christianity believes either the Jewish view or the concept of Hell. He loves us and shows this through the Good living forever. Does that make sense?

[justmyopinions]

(Original post by DomPugh)
I am quite uncomfortable with your words "what the nazi's was o.k". Its pretty well accepted that the murder of 4 million people is wrong. Cultural Relativism, as seen in your argument, is problematic with such things that are clearly intrinsically wrong.

5.9million*

[DomPugh]

Sorry im not a historian! If anything that adds weight to my point :P

[SexyNerd]

(Original post by chickenonsteroids)
Talking with you is pointless. You haven't addressed anything i've said.

"so it's ok to murder babies." Thanks for that insightful response. Even though I said no earlier.

Bloody hell.

answer what, give me a question and I'll answer it.

[SexyNerd]

(Original post by Gofre)
Stop being stupid. I did not say actions like this of any sort were ok, I was saying they are not wrong by any objective, transcendent frame of reference. I never said anything that would validate the actions of the Nazi regime. The model of morality I abide by, the same one you abide by which is certainly not the one outline in any of the abrahamic texts, regards it as despicable.



No, it is not objectively wrong. Would you like me to repeat it again?

however, if you lived in their (nazi) society, it would be o.k.

so, you think murdering babies is o.k.

atheists and morality.

[SexyNerd]

(Original post by DomPugh)
I am quite uncomfortable with your words "what the nazi's was o.k". Its pretty well accepted that the murder of 4 million people is wrong. Cultural Relativism, as seen in your argument, is problematic with such things that are clearly intrinsically wrong.

so, it was objectively wrong.

[Gofre]

(Original post by SexyNerd)
however, if you lived in their (nazi) society, it would be o.k.

so, you think murdering babies is o.k.

Since you seem to be incapable of reading what I'm saying, I will express my opposition to your post through the medium of song.



I'm going to try and spell it out for you nice and clearly: There is no such thing as right in wrong in the objective sense that you're presenting it. You can throw any historical example or hypothetical at me you like, that does not change that fact and if anything you're just providing ammunition against your own assertion by bringing up extra instances where thousands of people are obviously not bound by the same morals you are. The people being ruled under the Nazi regime may have advocated the genocide of Jews. In their minds, it was not wrong. That does not mean I think they were right to think that.

And I never said ANYTHING that could be construed as "killing babies is ok".

[SexyNerd]

(Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
No, I don't think they were just wrong, plain and simple. It can be argued from deontology that actions such as child-killing are perfectly good. Abraham being prepared to kill his son, is that immoral? God stopped him from doing it, but the intention was there. Abraham could easily say he was doing the right thing because he was following God's word.

See Exodus 11:1 - 12:30 where God kills all the firstborn children of Egyptians. The firstborn children of the Pharoah, to the slave, to the cattle. They will be teenagers, children, toddlers and babies. Is this immoral? Tell me, if killing a baby is objectively immoral, does that then make God objectively immoral?

If I were given divine revelation to kill a baby, deontological ethics would say that me killing this baby is perfectly moral. Similarly, if it were my duty to kill weak children because of overpopulation in my society, deontological ethics would say that my actions are right. And again in sacrificing a child to the gods, if that's what they decreed, then that action would be right.

The morality of an action is wholly subjective.

I feel like I'm being trolled.

abraham was being tested, and it wasn't a baby.

arbitrary morality goes against the nature of god.

the abrahamic god hasn't asked mankind to sacrifice babies, im sure thats the Pharaoh killing all the baby boys..

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...30&version=NIV

[SexyNerd]

(Original post by Gofre)
Since you seem to be incapable of reading what I'm saying, I will express my opposition to your post through the medium of song.



I'm going to try and spell it out for you nice and clearly: There is no such thing as right in wrong in the objective sense that you're presenting it. You can throw any historical example or hypothetical at me you like, that does not change that fact and if anything you're just providing ammunition against your own assertion by bringing up extra instances where thousands of people are obviously not bound by the same morals you are. The people being ruled under the Nazi regime may have advocated the genocide of Jews. In their minds, it was not wrong. That does not mean I think they were right to think that.

And I never said ANYTHING that could be construed as "killing babies is ok".

murdering an innocent baby depends on what society, or evolution determines, so one day you could think it would be acceptable and begin practising it?

[DomPugh]

(Original post by SexyNerd)
so, it was objectively wrong.

Yet you say it was okay at the time because society said it was okay, surely thats subjective?

Confusing.