[johnsoloman]

Hi,

I am just looking for some advice really preferably from dental students if possible please. Basically, i applied for dentistry last year (2011 entry) but didn't get any offers. I applied to Leeds, Newcastle, Cardiff and Kings for dentistry and biomed at Newcastle with a UKCAT of 620. I got interviews at Leeds and Newcastle, but at my Leeds interview i was very nervous and could have made a better answer to one question in particular as my head went blank and i messed it up as it ended with an awkward silence. I later found it in my feedback it was that question which i didn't answer well was the reason for the rejection. At Newcastle i felt the interview went very well but later got rejected as i was scored 13/15 and 12/15 by the interviewers but they felt i was a little nervous at the start and said a lot of people had scores of 14/15 and 15/15 so i lost out to fierce competition. I later ended up being rejected by Cardiff and Kings without interviews and for biomed at newcastle, which was probably as my personal statement was about dentistry. But i was really depressed and upset with this but still had to continue with my A level exams. I managed to get an A in maths, A in chemistry, and a B in biology on results day. I was really desperate to get the 3 As and reapply so i decided to go for a remark and my maths went up to an A* but my biology which was 12 ums off an A went up by 3ums still leaving me 9ums short off the A grade. I know the reason mostly for the B in biology was down to the silly AQA ISA practical exam in AS i did, i got an a D/E in it and in the retake the next year nearly everybody improved except me, as i just had a bad day in the exam and messed it up. So the practical ISA had pretty much screwed up my biology, as i would have got an A if i had at least a C in the ISA.

So my A level grades stood at A*, A, B, and for a long time i considered retaking biology and getting the A grade then reapplying but that would have made me a resit student and would mean i can apply to 3 universities (Kings, leeds and manchester). I phoned up and got a detailed answer off of each uni (apart from sheffield and QUB who i had trouble getting through to the right person) but basically Kings said they would consider my current grades (A*AB) but would need strong UKCAT of 650+ and strong performance against other peers. Resit would not make any difference as initial grades are looked at. Whereas Leeds said they accept resits but i would be put at a disadvantage to other students by losing 2 marks out of 20 in the pre interview stage. And Manchester accept resits but you have to get an A* in the subject you are resitting. Which is going to be very difficult...
I found a vacancy on UCAS extra as i had 5 rejections and managed to get an offer from Aston university for pharmacy. Due to the pressure from the tuition fees being hiked up to 9 grand and also the uncertainty with reapplying plus being at a disadvantage with no guarantees, i decided to accept the offer of pharmacy at Aston. So here i am studying pharmacy...At first i told myself pharmacy wouldn't be that bad and i'd cope....but after starting in october 2011 i have nearly finished the first year as i just have my exams left now and i don't like it. I am finding it really boring and uninteresting, but i have told myself that i am going to soldier through it and i might actually start to like it. Until last night where i had a dream, where i just dreamt about dentistry and how different my life could have been if i had got into dentistry. In the end i woke up and just felt really sad and depressed as i began questioning myself whether i had made the right decision or not. It's not like its the first time i have doubted myself, when i talk to my friends from sixth form about university they come across as genuinely happy as they loving it. Where as me i feel like i have to lie to myself and say its good and i'm enjoying it when i'm not to be honest. Well, i actually really like the friends i have made at university but it's just the course pharmacy i don't like and i guess my heart is still set on dentistry.

I am very sorry that this is so long but i would appreciate any advice anyone could offer me as surely i'm not the only one who feels depressed like this. I am actually thinking about dropping out of pharmacy and reapplying for dentistry. But this would mean i would have to resit biology (as only kings would consider my grades as they are now but its too risky counting on one uni), do the UKCAT again and get a big score probably 650+ and also it would cause complications with student finance as well. The other option i have is to endure another 3 years of pharmacy and apply as a graduate but theres no way i can afford the tuition fees of 9 grand and would have to work for a few years as a pharmacist to save up around 36-45k depending on if i do the 4 or 5 year course and i'll be near to 30 and also post graduate entry is extremely competitive...Right now i am just unsure of what to do.....Does anyone have some advice please?

Thank you

[fallenangel]

(Original post by johnsoloman)
I am very sorry that this is so long but i would appreciate any advice anyone could offer me as surely i'm not the only one who feels depressed like this. I am actually thinking about dropping out of pharmacy and reapplying for dentistry. But this would mean i would have to resit biology (as only kings would consider my grades as they are now but its too risky counting on one uni), do the UKCAT again and get a big score probably 650+ and also it would cause complications with student finance as well. The other option i have is to endure another 3 years of pharmacy and apply as a graduate but theres no way i can afford the tuition fees of 9 grand and would have to work for a few years as a pharmacist to save up around 36-45k depending on if i do the 4 or 5 year course and i'll be near to 30 and also post graduate entry is extremely competitive...Right now i am just unsure of what to do.....Does anyone have some advice please?

Thank you

I was in a scarily similar position to you last year - but I wanted to do Medicine as opposed to Dentistry. Got rejected from all my med schools (2 after interview) and got rejected by my 5th option (like you did)

I then went through UCAS Extra - and got Aston for Pharmacy. I had firmed it and everything, was ready to go and was convincing myself that it was the right thing to do but I just couldn't do it, and pulled out a week before starting. I lost my accommodation deposit and everything. I decided to give the application process another go and it worked out this time.

I genuinely believe you should do what makes you happy. I had literally spent hours trying to convince myself that 'Pharmacy is right' - but for me personally, I just felt that i'd be doing myself an injustice.

Obviously pulling out of Aston has financial implications and I'm sure you're family would have something to say also. But I don't think you should continue Pharmacy unless you're content with the possibility that you may be stuck in the profession if GED doesn't work out.

The feeling is pretty brutal - but try and explore every avenue. Perhaps Dentistry in Europe? That would require heavy financial support from family, unless you opt for Malta (which I believe has free tuition) I'd definitely try and re-sit Biology though, whatever you decide. Get the A under your belt. Then perhaps whilst still on the MPharm course - apply during years 3 & 4 to Dentistry (again financially this may not be viable)

Whatever you decide - I wish you all the best mate.

[johnsoloman]

(Original post by fallenangel)
I was in a scarily similar position to you last year - but I wanted to do Medicine as opposed to Dentistry. Got rejected from all my med schools (2 after interview) and got rejected by my 5th option (like you did)

I then went through UCAS Extra - and got Aston for Pharmacy. I had firmed it and everything, was ready to go and was convincing myself that it was the right thing to do but I just couldn't do it, and pulled out a week before starting. I lost my accommodation deposit and everything. I decided to give the application process another go and it worked out this time.

I genuinely believe you should do what makes you happy. I had literally spent hours trying to convince myself that 'Pharmacy is right' - but for me personally, I just felt that i'd be doing myself an injustice.

Obviously pulling out of Aston has financial implications and I'm sure you're family would have something to say also. But I don't think you should continue Pharmacy unless you're content with the possibility that you may be stuck in the profession if GED doesn't work out.

The feeling is pretty brutal - but try and explore every avenue. Perhaps Dentistry in Europe? That would require heavy financial support from family, unless you opt for Malta (which I believe has free tuition) I'd definitely try and re-sit Biology though, whatever you decide. Get the A under your belt. Then perhaps whilst still on the MPharm course - apply during years 3 & 4 to Dentistry (again financially this may not be viable)

Whatever you decide - I wish you all the best mate.

Hi,

Thanks for your advice
The thing is i wish that i didn't rush myself into pharmacy like i did and thought things through properly as now i am in a bit of a mess.
If i do want to consider dentistry seriously once again then i think i need to check a few things...
Firstly, i need to check if student finance will offer me tuition and maintenance loans if i were to drop out of pharmacy and apply for dentistry. As one of the last things i want is to pull out and find out i would need to finance the university fees myself regardless if i'm doing dentistry or any other degree as i've messed up my student finance.
Also, seeing as it's obviously too late for 2012 entry, it might be a good idea for me to contact all the universities once again and explain my situation to them and if they would consider me. As apparantly most univerisities don't like students dropping out of uncompleted degrees as it shows a lack of commitment i believe. Furthermore, from the resit point of view, it would be really useful to make sure things haven't changed for 2013 entry, for which i'd be applying for i were to drop out, which seems a long way away...

On one hand, pharmacy is tolerable and is a decent career and if i do wait it out then i would have a secure decent job to fall back on if i don't succeed in grad entry, but on the downside i'll be old... But on the other hand, i am struggling to motivate and push myself. Also, i can see myself getting bored in the future in pharmacy, as lets be honest as a community pharmacist all you essentially do is stand in dispensary and check prescriptions, check dosages, dispense medicines, occasionally consult members of the public. In addition, the university course right now is not very interesting to be honest...
But the problem is that i am a little scared of making such a big decision of pulling out of university to resit and reapply for dentistry. Firstly, there is the task i have of getting the A grade, which is possible but there is added pressure that i have to achieve it if not everything falls apart. Also, i'll be limited on university choices to about 3 dental schools i think, and i'll be at a big disadvantage already on a course that is competitive and notoriously difficult to get into as it is. So chances are that i will be unsuccessful again and be left with nothing. Then i would have to consider reapplying again or giving up and going into a different degree, i may even end up in pharmacy again....

I don't know this is all so complicated...As if i pluck the courage to drop out it might be worth it and i could get into my dream career, or it could be a catastrophic mistake and could end up in heap of financial problems and be a huge waste of time.....

[fallenangel]

(Original post by johnsoloman)
Hi,

Thanks for your advice
The thing is i wish that i didn't rush myself into pharmacy like i did and thought things through properly as now i am in a bit of a mess.
If i do want to consider dentistry seriously once again then i think i need to check a few things...
Firstly, i need to check if student finance will offer me tuition and maintenance loans if i were to drop out of pharmacy and apply for dentistry. As one of the last things i want is to pull out and find out i would need to finance the university fees myself regardless if i'm doing dentistry or any other degree as i've messed up my student finance.
Also, seeing as it's obviously too late for 2012 entry, it might be a good idea for me to contact all the universities once again and explain my situation to them and if they would consider me. As apparantly most univerisities don't like students dropping out of uncompleted degrees as it shows a lack of commitment i believe. Furthermore, from the resit point of view, it would be really useful to make sure things haven't changed for 2013 entry, for which i'd be applying for i were to drop out, which seems a long way away...

On one hand, pharmacy is tolerable and is a decent career and if i do wait it out then i would have a secure decent job to fall back on if i don't succeed in grad entry, but on the downside i'll be old... But on the other hand, i am struggling to motivate and push myself. Also, i can see myself getting bored in the future in pharmacy, as lets be honest as a community pharmacist all you essentially do is stand in dispensary and check prescriptions, check dosages, dispense medicines, occasionally consult members of the public. In addition, the university course right now is not very interesting to be honest...
But the problem is that i am a little scared of making such a big decision of pulling out of university to resit and reapply for dentistry. Firstly, there is the task i have of getting the A grade, which is possible but there is added pressure that i have to achieve it if not everything falls apart. Also, i'll be limited on university choices to about 3 dental schools i think, and i'll be at a big disadvantage already on a course that is competitive and notoriously difficult to get into as it is. So chances are that i will be unsuccessful again and be left with nothing. Then i would have to consider reapplying again or giving up and going into a different degree, i may even end up in pharmacy again....

I don't know this is all so complicated...As if i pluck the courage to drop out it might be worth it and i could get into my dream career, or it could be a catastrophic mistake and could end up in heap of financial problems and be a huge waste of time.....

No worries man - there's not much point dwelling on the past, best thing is to just focus on the future. With regards to student finance - as far as I know, they're prepared to fund you for 4 years of studying. So if you was to drop out, you'd have to fund a year on your own. The situation is something along those lines, I'd definitely double check with student finance anyway.

I can totally understand the difficulty of your situation - there is no easy route I'm afraid. If I was in your situation, I'd probably stay at Aston however look to get the A in Biology so you have your A-Levels at A*AA. Whatever you do decide, just make sure you commit to it, that's the most important thing.

What do your friends/family say about the matter?

[Quick-use]

(Original post by johnsoloman)
x

I definitely think that you should reapply for Dentistry. Universities might not like drop-outs midway a year, so you having done a whole year including exams is a definite bonus from my point of view. I think that you should definitely look into finance. Also, I think that you should re-sit Biology, try to improve your UKCAT, and do you think it'd be possible to take a whole A level (or simply AS) during the year? I'm really not familiar with this, but it could help I assume? Please don't think that you definitely need another A level (I'm only 18, I don't really know what I'm talking about ), but I guess it could help?

Good luck man

[Lloyds]

(Original post by johnsoloman)
Hi

A-levels: AAB in three different subjects by the end of year 13, with at least BBB at first sitting in year 12 of AS. Must have A-level Biology and Chemistry (both at Grade A).

Glasgow want AAB with AA in Chemistry and Biology, but email them and ask if they will accept A*AB with the B in Biology.

[johnsoloman]

Hmm it's a tricky situation....

I think the best option would be to resit and reapply for dentistry but somehow without dropping out of pharmacy? I have called up most of the universities today (apart from kings, leeds, and sheffield who i couldn't get through to etc). But all the ones i did call up said that they would not consider me applying if am still studying another degree, as this would be classed as poaching...I can either drop out and then apply or finish the degree then apply as a graduate.
But the thing is i have heard of a few people who have actually applied for dentistry whilst still on another course. So my question is how could they do this? Unless of course kings, leeds or sheffield don't care if your studying another degree but i highly doubt this judging from what i've heard so far as it seems a universal rule from amongst the universities to not poach students etc... I was thinking unless it is possible to somehow hide this fact that you are a current university student studying a degree elsewhere from the universities you are applying to? But it would be very difficult to hide this and you may get asked in an interview so what are you doing currently? and you may have to lie or find a subtle way to get out of the question whilst hiding your situation. But surely the universities would know and could find out couldn't they??

[Freiheit]

I think it's too risky to drop out because you can end up with 5 rejections and no degree but if you carry on then at least you can have a degree and decide on your future later.

[fuzzycloud]

As far as I know you can't apply for another course while you're studying something else, unless you're about to graduate. I may be wrong, but this seems in line with what the universities told you.

Personally, I think it would be a big risk to drop out and apply for dentistry now. I'd be worried universities would have reservations about taking you on in case you drop out of dentistry in the same manner. Combined with the unfortunate grade situation you might find yourself without a place next year, back to square one.

I would suggest sticking with Pharmacy and applying for dentistry as a graduate. You would need to do well in the finals though, so only if you think you can. I know it must be hard to study something you're not that interested in.

Alternatively you could drop out and re-take biology this year in the hope of bringing the grade up. If you're considering this, phone the universities first and make sure it's an acceptable route.

[Lloyds]

OP why don't you apply for Dentistry whilst still studying Dentistry, say you did a (2 year) gap year, and if you get in you can drop out, if not then you can carry on with pharmacy.

[johnsoloman]

(Original post by Lloyds)
OP why don't you apply for Dentistry whilst still studying Dentistry, say you did a (2 year) gap year, and if you get in you can drop out, if not then you can carry on with pharmacy.

Yh,
I am trying to look into this, where i can reapply whilst studying at Aston, but the problem is all the universities i've contacted so far have said i can't do this. Either i have to drop out then reapply, or finish the degree then apply as a graduate....

[Lloyds]

(Original post by johnsoloman)
Yh,
I am trying to look into this, where i can reapply whilst studying at Aston, but the problem is all the universities i've contacted so far have said i can't do this. Either i have to drop out then reapply, or finish the degree then apply as a graduate....

Don't tell them you're doing that.

[johnsoloman]

(Original post by Lloyds)
Don't tell them you're doing that.

But they will almost certainly find out sooner or later....it's going to be very difficult to hide something like that from them. For example, what if they ask me in an interview? They will find out one way or another....and then i'm screwed if i applied there and they've made it clear they won't accept me in my current situation...

[UR4]

(Original post by johnsoloman)
But they will almost certainly find out sooner or later....it's going to be very difficult to hide something like that from them. For example, what if they ask me in an interview? They will find out one way or another....and then i'm screwed if i applied there and they've made it clear they won't accept me in my current situation...

If you apply and do not tell them u r studying on a degree u r likely to be found out.
1. Your referee is likely to mention it
2. What will you say you have been doing for the past year.
3. UCAS will have you down as accepted on a degree and there may be info sharing.

My advice would be to transfer universities to a university with a dental school to study Biomed or Pharmacy. Then apply for Grad Entry. As you have been told you will lose student finace for the years that you study on a current degree.

You say that you find your first year boring I would point out that what you are studying now is very similar to first year dentistry.

[insignificant]

I just want to give you my side of the story!

I was in sixth form, doing well, predicted AAB and held various offers from York, Newcastle, Liverpool, Leeds for Management . Unfortunately, my dad got ill with his epilepsy and my grandma had a stroke and got terminal cancer, and she died in the middle of my exams. I didn't do anywhere near as well as I should have, and got CCCD. I knew I could have done better if I had resat some modules, but instead I got conned into settling for what I could find in clearing, and found a Law course.

I'm not happy whatsoever, despise my degree, but its too late as I'm going into third year now.

I highly highly recommend you resit the biology, do better in the UKCAT and just work and work and WORK hard. Don't settle for second best, as you have discovered you don't like it and are not happy. I wish I had had the balls to drop out.

[johnsoloman]

(Original post by UR4)
If you apply and do not tell them u r studying on a degree u r likely to be found out.
1. Your referee is likely to mention it
2. What will you say you have been doing for the past year.
3. UCAS will have you down as accepted on a degree and there may be info sharing.

My advice would be to transfer universities to a university with a dental school to study Biomed or Pharmacy. Then apply for Grad Entry. As you have been told you will lose student finace for the years that you study on a current degree.

You say that you find your first year boring I would point out that what you are studying now is very similar to first year dentistry.

Yh, i agree with you that there is a very good chance that the universities will find out if i were to apply for dentistry whilst studying pharmacy at Aston and so i think it's not worth the risk.
About grad entry...hmm i'm not too keen on it for a number of reasons: firstly i'll be much older and might not have the same energy after studying for four years asubject which i find very boring. Secondly, from the financial point of view i'm going to need to find 36-45k for tuition fees as i can't get a student loan for a second degree. Yes, like someone suggested, i could work as a pharmacist for a while after i graduate and save up. Yes the money will be good as a pharmacist but realistically it's going to be another few years added on by which time i'll be 26/27 years old. Then finally i'll have the funds to apply for dentistry as a graduate, but the next problem is graduate entry is a lot more competitive than getting in as your first degree. Therefore, it could take more several more years to get in and if i do then great! But by the time i'd graduate from dentistry i'll be into my 30s. But on the other hand i would be doing something i have a genuine interest in for the rest of my life so it worth all those many years of hard work? Also, if i do give up at this stage i have a decent career to fall back on in pharmacy. So whilst i really do like the security and stable platform i have if i were to go ahead for grad entry, i have to ask myself if this very long road is worth it? Especially considering if i was very brave and pull out of pharmacy and go for dentistry right now, i may be able to just get in? But it is a huge gamble and it's going to take a lot of guts as there is a very good chance that i won't get in and at the end of it i'll be left with nothing...and may very well end up back on square one once again studying pharmacy or biomed but the difference this time is i'll be a good few years older and may have to pay for a year of tuition fees myself...
Also, your comment about the first year of pharmacy being similar to the first year of dentistry i can understand...Yes, my first year (which i've practically finished as just have exams left now) was a made up of mixture of modules involving maths, biology and chemistry essentially. However, it's all pretty much tailored to pharmacy...and i'm just finding it really boring. I've spoken to a few third year students and they say that there is a lot more pharmacology and drug mechanisms in the years to come. There is a lot of chemistry involved and the maths is more like molar chemistry calculations and the biology is very limited.
Yes, the first years will be very slightly similar but i am obviously thinking long term as if i'm not enjoying pharmacy right now...well i've got another 3 years of it and it's going to get more intense and most likely boring....

[johnsoloman]

(Original post by eco2bottle)
If he's already studying Pharmacy, what would be the point in him transferring to another university to do Pharmacy just because it has a dental school?

I think the OP should finish Pharmacy as he's more likely to get a job (compared to Biomedical Science) which is very well paid. This gives him the potential to work as a locum Pharmacist whilst studying on a Dentistry course afterwards (which I have been told can get up to £100p/h).

Yes i agree the sensible option would be to finish pharmacy and then look into dentistry as a graduate. But this has a few problems which i've mentioned in the post above...financially it's very very expensive but yes i can save up for a while as a pharmacist but the main problem is age in that it's very likely i'm going to end up in my 30s by the time i'm a dentist. And i understand that i'd rather be 30 something and be a dentist instead of being a pharmacist for the rest of my working life...but when there is also the alternative path of taking the gamble which won't have any of these problems and it would be like a dream come true. But it is very risky and there is a good chance i still won't get into dentistry and will be left with nothing and have wasted several years of my life...but then again if i all else fails i can always go back into pharmacy or do biomed knowing full well that i truly gave dentistry my best shot....
It is a very tough choice....

[johnsoloman]

(Original post by insignificant)
I just want to give you my side of the story!

I was in sixth form, doing well, predicted AAB and held various offers from York, Newcastle, Liverpool, Leeds for Management . Unfortunately, my dad got ill with his epilepsy and my grandma had a stroke and got terminal cancer, and she died in the middle of my exams. I didn't do anywhere near as well as I should have, and got CCCD. I knew I could have done better if I had resat some modules, but instead I got conned into settling for what I could find in clearing, and found a Law course.

I'm not happy whatsoever, despise my degree, but its too late as I'm going into third year now.

I highly highly recommend you resit the biology, do better in the UKCAT and just work and work and WORK hard. Don't settle for second best, as you have discovered you don't like it and are not happy. I wish I had had the balls to drop out.

I am really sorry to hear what you have had to deal with during your exams and how you are stuck in university doing something you don't want to do...I genuinely feel sorry for you and really do hope that you do see the light at the end of the tunnel and have a happy future.

Thank you for your advice
The more i am thinking about this the more i think to myself that it may be worth actually pursuing my dreams if it makes me happy. As at the end of the day i could stick through pharmacy and live the rest of my life unhappy as a pharmacist and constantly think about dentistry. But if i take the chance that i still have right now and really give dentistry my best shot then there is still that very slim chance i could get in. Even if i still don't make it after a few years of trying at least i'll have the satisfaction of knowing that i truly gave it my all and i just wasn't meant to be a dentist...It's a huge risk and one that will take a lot of guts to drop out, but the more i think about this the more i am swaying to taking the gamble and dropping out. I think at the end of the day if i want to be successful i am going to have to take some sort of risk in one form or another...
My orthodontist, who i did work experience with before, once told me that she believes that in life if you really want something you will find a way....
And i think she may be right...

[johnsoloman]

(Original post by eco2bottle)
I did Biomedical Science, I wouldn't recommend it, job prospects aren't great. Stick to Pharmacy instead as a back up. You can make a great career out of it.

Thank you for your advice
I think if all else fails and if i still don't get into dentistry then yes i probably would stick to pharmacy as a back up. To be honest, it is quite a good career and the job prospects are very good, but my happiness in a career is also very important. But yes pharmacy would be a good back up option, thanks

[UR4]

(Original post by UR4)
If you apply and do not tell them u r studying on a degree u r likely to be found out.
1. Your referee is likely to mention it
2. What will you say you have been doing for the past year.
3. UCAS will have you down as accepted on a degree and there may be info sharing.

My advice would be to transfer universities to a university with a dental school to study Biomed or Pharmacy. Then apply for Grad Entry. As you have been told you will lose student finace for the years that you study on a current degree.

You say that you find your first year boring I would point out that what you are studying now is very similar to first year dentistry.

I stay transfer because I assumed he didn't like Aston as a uni and Pharmacy as a course. Also most university all but guarntee their own students interviews for entry to Dentistry.

I agree in finishing your pharmacy degree as you can also work part time as a pharmacist if you were to go on to grad entry.

Also consider getting your a levels up through an evening course or so as entry will become more competitive every year.