[Indo-Chinese Food]

I had been told be a guy that i had known in university that was american (and a muslim), that he was taught that mohammed was black, or certainly black/mixed race which could be described as typical for that region at the time. He came from an arabic tribe that typically were quite dark skinned and had curly hair (sort of what you would imagine a mixed raced person to look like ( ie brown skin curly hair and some north african features)

However in making that point to muslims that are not black, was faced with some fairly angry responses. whether he was balck or part black etc, why is there such an angry repsonse to raising this idea in the first place, amoungst muslims?

[I Gurn Hard]

It's a bit racist

[weirdnessandcoffee]

Um, why should Muslims take offence in Mohammed being middle eastern? He's not actually 'black' as in, those of African descent, but he's of a darker skin tone then. Who care about skin colour?

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by I Gurn Hard)
It's a bit racist

Who is?

[minifridge]

Surely colour shouldn't affect someone's belief anyway...

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by weirdnessandcoffee)
Um, why should Muslims take offence in Mohammed being middle eastern? He's not actually 'black' as in, those of African descent, but he's of a darker skin tone then. Who care about skin colour?

Well, the point is they shouldnt - especially as there are so many black muslims anyway. regardless, the assertion is that the people of the region that mohammed came from were nubian - who were largely black tribes.

[Perseveranze]

He wasn't black or white, there is Hikmah in this, so that no one at that time (where racism was prevalent) would say that "you're favoring blacks because you're black, or you're favoring whites because you're white".

Anyaways, based on the evidences;

Even his physical description of colour was middle. He was not pasty white and he was not black. He was inclining towards light skin because of the racism of human beings. That is one of the hikmah of that. He was inclining towards light skin because of the racism of human beings. It has to do with the stupidity of human beings in distinguishing between people because of colour. He was a colour like what we call the harvest moon. He was not white nor dark, he was light skinned what we would call in English, a reddy complexion. ^source

[SEHughes]

Racism against black people is rather prevalent in the Arab world.

[PrismaticCore]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
He wasn't black or white, there is Hikmah in this, so that no one at that time (where racism was prevalent) would say that "you're favoring blacks because you're black, or you're favoring whites because you're white".

Anyaways, based on the evidences;

Even his physical description of colour was middle. He was not pasty white and he was not black. He was inclining towards light skin because of the racism of human beings. That is one of the hikmah of that. He was inclining towards light skin because of the racism of human beings. It has to do with the stupidity of human beings in distinguishing between people because of colour. He was a colour like what we call the harvest moon. He was not white nor dark, he was light skinned what we would call in English, a reddy complexion. ^source

As much as I'd like to say you're right, I want to know the sources of this. I went to the link and all I found was that I sheikh was saying all this.

EDIT: Oh wow. I'm being negged for not blindly following some words on the Internet and asking for their source. I apologise for assuming that I am free to use my frontal cortex to its full capacity.

[Weasleys_jumper]

Umm they have no reason 'to take offence' they should just clarify he was an arab whose complexion was described as 'neither dark nor white' ..

[apolocreed]

(Original post by minifridge)
Surely colour shouldn't affect someone's belief anyway...

I rate all those white supremacists in America and such who have Christianity as a core virtue would be a tad ruffled if there was a chance Jesus was black/coloured...

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by PrismaticCore)
As much as I'd like to say you're right, I want to know the sources of this. I went to the link and all I found was that I sheikh was saying all this.

The Scholars name is Hamza Yusuf, he's one of the most famous scholars in the west. He was quite legendary before 9/11 (speaking out against falsehood etc.), but after that he became a bit of a western tool and ambassador. Still though, it doesn't make him a laymen, and he's known to be quite knowledgeable with these types of facts. It's just I wouldn't take a fatwa from him seriously.

As far as proof goes then there's plenty of it, for example;

---

Rab’ia bin Abdul Rahman narrates from Anas (RA) who while describing the appearance of the Holy Prophet said:

وَلَا بِالْأَبْيَضِ الْأَمْهَقِ، وَلَا بِالْآدَمِ

“And he was neither white as lime (abyad al-amhaq) , nor brown (adam).” (Shama’il Tirmidhi, Hadith 1)

---

Another very close companion of the Holy Prophet –peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, ‘Ali (RA) described the complexion of the Holy Prophet in the following words:

كَانَ أَبْيَضَ مشرَّباً بَيَاضُهُ حُمْرَةً، وَكَانَ أَسْوَدَ الْحَدَقَةِ

“He had white complexion, his whiteness being imbued with redness (abyad musharraban bayaduhu humrah) and his iris was black (awsad).” (Dalail al-Nubuwwah lil-Baihaqi 1/212-213 Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyya Beirut 1405 A.H.)

Reports to this effect from ‘Ali (RA) are found in many works of Hadith.

---

Ibn Sa’d in his Tabaqat al-Kubra narrates from Abu Umamah that he described about the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, as:

رَجُلًا أَبْيَضَ تَعْلُوهُ حُمْرَةٌ

“A man of white complexion with red tinge in it (abyad ta’luhu humrah).” (Tabaqat al-Kubra 1/413)

---

And so on. Hamza Yusuf has done his research in looking at all the descriptions and given the best understanding to the wester/english based audience.

Otherwise these are the types of word in Arabic used to describe the Prophet(pbuh) -

Meaning of Adam/Udma;

آدم Of the colour termed أُدمة (Book I, p.37)

أُدمة... and in human beings, a tawny colour; or darkness of complexion; syn. سُمرة or an intermixture, or a tinge, of blackness or intense سُمرة (Book I, p.36)

Meaning of Asmar/Sumra:

أسمر [Tawny, or brownish; dusky; dark-complexioned or dark-coloured;] of the colour termed سُمرة (Book I, p.1426)

سُمرة [A tawny, or brownish, colour, of various shades, like the various hues of wheat; duskiness; darkness of complexion or colour;] certain colour, well known, between white and black, … (Book I, p.1425)

Meaning of Ahmar/Humrah:

حُمرة [Redness;] a well-known colour; (Msb, K the colour of that which is termed أحمر …. But when relating to complexion, whiteness; (Book I, p.640)

Meaning of Azhar/Zuhrah:

أزهر Shining; giving light; bright. (S.,K) …. White; (S.,K and beautiful: (K. or of a bright white colour: (TA or of any shining colour: (AH.n,R (Book I, p.1262)

زُهرة Whiteness; (Yaakoon,S,K and beauty: (K whiteness, or fairness, characteristic of good birth: (S or bright whiteness: (TA or any shining colour. (AHn,R) (Book I, p.1262)

More info

So I'd say Hamza was spot on.

[Niassuh]

Why don't you ask the people who took offence? Why are you asking TSR?
In my opinion, whether the prophet (PBUH) was black, white, brown ow whatever doesn't matter because it's the religion which is meant to unite different races. I was under the impression that he was a brown-skinned arab.

[Student296]

(Original post by SEHughes)
Racism against black people is rather prevalent in the Arab world.

Sadly true, but as I posted on another thread, the Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) said in his last sermon "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action".

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
The Scholars name is Hamza Yusuf, he's one of the most famous scholars in the west. He was quite legendary before 9/11 (speaking out against falsehood etc.), but after that he became a bit of a western tool and ambassador. Still though, it doesn't make him a laymen, and he's known to be quite knowledgeable with these types of facts. It's just I wouldn't take a fatwa from him seriously.

As far as proof goes then there's plenty of it, for example;

---

Rab’ia bin Abdul Rahman narrates from Anas (RA) who while describing the appearance of the Holy Prophet said:

وَلَا بِالْأَبْيَضِ الْأَمْهَقِ، وَلَا بِالْآدَمِ

“And he was neither white as lime (abyad al-amhaq) , nor brown (adam).” (Shama’il Tirmidhi, Hadith 1)

---

Another very close companion of the Holy Prophet –peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, ‘Ali (RA) described the complexion of the Holy Prophet in the following words:

كَانَ أَبْيَضَ مشرَّباً بَيَاضُهُ حُمْرَةً، وَكَانَ أَسْوَدَ الْحَدَقَةِ

“He had white complexion, his whiteness being imbued with redness (abyad musharraban bayaduhu humrah) and his iris was black (awsad).” (Dalail al-Nubuwwah lil-Baihaqi 1/212-213 Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyya Beirut 1405 A.H.)

Reports to this effect from ‘Ali (RA) are found in many works of Hadith.

---

Ibn Sa’d in his Tabaqat al-Kubra narrates from Abu Umamah that he described about the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, as:

رَجُلًا أَبْيَضَ تَعْلُوهُ حُمْرَةٌ

“A man of white complexion with red tinge in it (abyad ta’luhu humrah).” (Tabaqat al-Kubra 1/413)

---

And so on. Hamza Yusuf has done his research in looking at all the descriptions and given the best understanding to the wester/english based audience.

Otherwise these are the types of word in Arabic used to describe the Prophet(pbuh) -

Meaning of Adam/Udma;

آدم Of the colour termed أُدمة (Book I, p.37)

أُدمة... and in human beings, a tawny colour; or darkness of complexion; syn. سُمرة or an intermixture, or a tinge, of blackness or intense سُمرة (Book I, p.36)

Meaning of Asmar/Sumra:

أسمر [Tawny, or brownish; dusky; dark-complexioned or dark-coloured;] of the colour termed سُمرة (Book I, p.1426)

سُمرة [A tawny, or brownish, colour, of various shades, like the various hues of wheat; duskiness; darkness of complexion or colour;] certain colour, well known, between white and black, … (Book I, p.1425)

Meaning of Ahmar/Humrah:

حُمرة [Redness;] a well-known colour; (Msb, K the colour of that which is termed أحمر …. But when relating to complexion, whiteness; (Book I, p.640)

Meaning of Azhar/Zuhrah:

أزهر Shining; giving light; bright. (S.,K) …. White; (S.,K and beautiful: (K. or of a bright white colour: (TA or of any shining colour: (AH.n,R (Book I, p.1262)

زُهرة Whiteness; (Yaakoon,S,K and beauty: (K whiteness, or fairness, characteristic of good birth: (S or bright whiteness: (TA or any shining colour. (AHn,R) (Book I, p.1262)

More info

So I'd say Hamza was spot on.

all really conjecture by people that never knew or met mohammed - i wouldprefer to look more seriously at what we know about populations and civlisations of the regions at the time. Do you refer to Wesley mohammed above? becuase he states both mohammed and jesus in those regions would have been black men. ( see his well etablished book Black Arabia & the African Origin of Islam - http://blackarabia.blogspot.co.uk/20...ts-matter.html), I eoould regard him as much more an authority than "letmeturnthetables.com and other such drivel websites, seeing as Wesley M has masters and phds in Islamic Studies from the prestigious ‘public Ivy’, the University of Michigan (Ann Arbor), whence he also completed doctoral work included training in Arabic and Biblical Hebrew

It was known that nubian tribes were the most prevalent in the arabian lands where mohammed originate and the arabs there were originally the african semites of levant, who were black, which lends weight to the theory that mohammed was black or possibly partially mixed race - but as with jesus, it seems religious leaders do tend to applty the 'paler' bias to relgious figure - or the 'aryanisation of mohammed' as wesley M calls it.
That theory does seem refelcted in general muslim attitude that i had experienced here where many are insulted by a suggestion mohammed was actually black, unlike muslims in the USA

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Niassuh)
Why don't you ask the people who took offence? Why are you asking TSR?
In my opinion, whether the prophet (PBUH) was black, white, brown ow whatever doesn't matter because it's the religion which is meant to unite different races. I was under the impression that he was a brown-skinned arab.

of course it shouldnt matter- thats my point, it seems to matter to many muslims, even thought there is much evidene that suggests he would have been black. It maybe why many black muslims identify with him as a prophet also. but also seems that non-black muslims want to beleive he was much paler looking.

[eggaforbreakfast]

Irony of Irony that black Muslims think Mohammad was black. North Africa and middle east didn't have that many black people until Arabs starting bringing them over the Saharan desert as slaves.


Also, Mohammad was not white as in European. But light skinned Semitic Arab type.



This discussion has Been done before. Someone posted up quotes from hadiths that said he had pale skin.

[greatmonte]

(Original post by SEHughes)
Racism against black people is rather prevalent in the Arab world.

But if mohamed was "black" then the arabs would be "black" so they cant be racist

OP I disagree with the idea that mohameds black in the same way jesus aint black but middle eastern but, the retarded western idea of race tries to put them in one or the other. I do think there is an issue with racism in the arab world but out of the many things you can blame islam for I dont personally think racism is one of them

PS I know im not punctuating deal with it

[SamiraKayy']

No one should take offense but Muhammad was not black as there are MANY narrations which can be related to where the Companions have described the features of Muhammad PBUH.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by eggaforbreakfast)
Irony of Irony that black Muslims think Mohammad was black. North Africa and middle east didn't have that many black people until Arabs starting bringing them over the Saharan desert as slaves.


Also, Mohammad was not white as in European. But light skinned Semitic Arab type.



This discussion has Been done before. Someone posted up quotes from hadiths that said he had pale skin.

thats actually incorrect - there are historical record of many ethncically 'black' people in the lands that now correspond as saudi arabia, maybe more than non-black - the mass displacement of black people from that specific region didnt come about til the later arab and then european slave trades became large scale.
We know that Mohammeds tribe the Quraish originated in the southern parts of that land, close to border with now Yemen and other neighbouring countires at its south, such as ethiopia- His tribe are said to have been founded by the larger Banu Khuza'a tribe (who we know came from Yemen, to settle near mecca)

Black muslims in the US assert this because of the facts that are known about the region ie that mohammed probably then did look yemenese or perhaps ethiopean (ie more 'black' or certainly much darker than white or light brown as suggessted by some hadith