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Why do some muslim take offense at the suggestion mohammed may have been black

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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    thats actually incorrect - there are historical record of many ethncically 'black' people in the lands that now correspond as saudi arabia, maybe more than non-black - the mass displacement of black people from that specific region didnt come about til the later arab and then european slave trades became large scale.
    We know that Mohammeds tribe the Quraish originated in the southern parts of that land, close to border with now Yemen and other neighbouring countires at its south, such as ethiopia- His tribe are said to have been founded by the larger Banu Khuza'a tribe (who we know came from Yemen, to settle near mecca)

    Black muslims in the US assert this because of the facts that are known about the region ie that mohammed probably then did look yemenese or perhaps ethiopean (ie more 'black' or certainly much darker than white or light brown as suggessted by some hadith

    many Black Muslims in america are racist. For the most part They come from the racist organisation nation of islam. Their historical narrtive is black supremacism. I wouldn't listen to them If i were you.


    Their narrative is actually really offensive to the Arab and Semitic tribes of the region. They try and claim these people's cultural heritage as heir own.
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    Muhammad (pbuh) was not black, but he was breast-fed by a black woman. Frankly there is no place in Islam for racism.
    The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Whoever calls towards 'unsuriyyah (racism/tribalism/nationalism etc) is not from amongst us, he who fights on (the basis of) 'unsuriyyah is not from amongst us, and he who dies upon 'unsuriyyah is not from amongst us." (Abu Dawood)
    The Prophet (pbuh) said: "An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; also a white person has no superiority over black person nor does a black person have any superiority over white person except by piety and good action. (Sharh al-Tahhaawiyyah)
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    I had been told be a guy that i had known in university that was american (and a muslim), that he was taught that mohammed was black, or certainly black/mixed race which could be described as typical for that region at the time. He came from an arabic tribe that typically were quite dark skinned and had curly hair (sort of what you would imagine a mixed raced person to look like ( ie brown skin curly hair and some north african features)

    However in making that point to muslims that are not black, was faced with some fairly angry responses. whether he was balck or part black etc, why is there such an angry repsonse to raising this idea in the first place, amoungst muslims?
    What has that got to do with TSR?
    Some Muslims are probably racist then and don't like the idea.
    You should ask them their reasons

    “Neither white like lime, nor tanned, but brown with whiteness predominant.” – (Anas(R.A))

    Anas was a companion who lived during the life time of the prophet. Therefore, he saw himself how the prophet looked like. We can see from this nor was he too fair but not black either. So your point that you're making isn't exactly true. Again, he wasn't completely fair skinned either.

    Abu Huraira (ra) describes:
    The complexion of Rasulullah (s) was white with redness in it. The blessed eyes of Rasulullah (s) were extremely black. His eyelashes were long.

    Anas bin Malik (ra) says:
    The Prophet (s) was neither tall nor short. He was handsome. His hair was neither delicate nor curly. He was neither very white, nor very brown.

    We can see he wasn't black.
    If some Muslims are getting angry at the fact that he was black, well who cares. They probably racist. Does it matter?
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    (Original post by eggaforbreakfast)
    many Black Muslims in america are racist. For the most part They come from the racist organisation nation of islam. Their historical narrtive is black supremacism. I wouldn't listen to them If i were you.


    Their narrative is actually really offensive to the Arab and Semitic tribes of the region. They try and claim these people's cultural heritage as heir own.
    (Original post by Rosi M)
    What has that got to do with TSR?
    Some Muslims are probably racist then and don't like the idea.
    You should ask them their reasons

    “Neither white like lime, nor tanned, but brown with whiteness predominant.” – (Anas(R.A))

    Anas was a companion who lived during the life time of the prophet. Therefore, he saw himself how the prophet looked like. We can see from this nor was he too fair but not black either. So your point that you're making isn't exactly true. Again, he wasn't completely fair skinned either.

    Abu Huraira (ra) describes:
    The complexion of Rasulullah (s) was white with redness in it. The blessed eyes of Rasulullah (s) were extremely black. His eyelashes were long.

    Anas bin Malik (ra) says:
    The Prophet (s) was neither tall nor short. He was handsome. His hair was neither delicate nor curly. He was neither very white, nor very brown.

    We can see he wasn't black.
    If some Muslims are getting angry at the fact that he was black, well who cares. They probably racist. Does it matter?
    if you read all hadith they give other clues too, they have also said that moahmmed was brought in part up by ethiopean women from the nearby Banu Sa'ad tribe (who were definately black). Its likely that all neighbouring tribe were of similar ethncities ( that is yemeni/ethipoean or some combination of)

    What experienced phds such as Wesley mohammed, in islamic studies (not just a NOI nutcase) say is that the image of moahmmed is distorted in later wrtings (ie some hadith) by lighter skinned muslims who wanted mohammed to be more assosciated with them. In the same way they state european chritians claimed jesus to be a couple of shades paler.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    if you read all hadith they give other clues too, they have also said that moahmmed was brought in part up by ethiopean women from the nearby Banu Sa'ad tribe (who were definately black). Its likely that all neighbouring tribe were of similar ethncities ( that is yemeni/ethipoean or some combination of)

    What experienced phds such as Wesley mohammed, in islamic studies (not just a NOI nutcase) say is that the image of moahmmed is distorted in later wrtings (ie some hadith) by lighter skinned muslims who wanted mohammed to be more assosciated with them. In the same way they state european chritians claimed jesus to be a couple of shades paler.



    he this guy saying mohammad was dark or a sub saharan african?

    even if all the evidence is incorrect and he was not a light skin arab, it would still not make him sub saharan africa. just a dark skinned arab.
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    (Original post by eggaforbreakfast)
    he this guy saying mohammad was dark or a sub saharan african?

    even if all the evidence is incorrect and he was not a light skin arab, it would still not make him sub saharan africa. just a dark skinned arab.
    not sub saharan, there are black people living above the sahara you know, they have existed there for thousands of years. southern saudi arabia was populated largely by nubian tribes and the first semites of the region, who were black - these are known as the first arabs or 'black arabs'. 'fair arabs' orignated from much further north (modern northern iraq and iran)
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    not sub saharan, there are black people living above the sahara you know, they have existed there for thousands of years. southern saudi arabia was populated largely by nubian tribes and the first semites of the region, who were black - these are known as the first arabs or 'black arabs'. 'fair arabs' orignated from much further north (modern northern iraq and iran)


    wait, i've heard this stuff before....that it was actually sub saharan africans who were were original hebrews. the original semites. the original arabs. the original egyptians.....

    soon, they will be saying they were the original chinese.....
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    (Original post by eggaforbreakfast)
    wait, i've heard this stuff before....that it was actually sub saharan africans who were were original hebrews. the original semites. the original arabs. the original egyptians.....

    soon, they will be saying they were the original chinese.....
    youre saying something different now. It was known that nubian tribes migrated to levant as well as surrounding areas, and that 'arabian' lands became their home. The fact mohammeds tribe came form originally yemen and/or ethiopia lends wegiht to Wesley mohammeds claim.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    I had been told be a guy that i had known in university that was american (and a muslim), that he was taught that mohammed was black, or certainly black/mixed race which could be described as typical for that region at the time. He came from an arabic tribe that typically were quite dark skinned and had curly hair (sort of what you would imagine a mixed raced person to look like ( ie brown skin curly hair and some north african features)

    However in making that point to muslims that are not black, was faced with some fairly angry responses. whether he was balck or part black etc, why is there such an angry repsonse to raising this idea in the first place, amoungst muslims?
    That is probably becuase the physical description we muslims have of the Prophet is quite different from that.

    al-Bukhari contains the sayings and traditions of the Prophet Muhammad. It is second to only the Quran in islam.

    al-bukhari mentions the following narration:
    "Anas ibn maalik said: 'The Prophet was of average height, not too tall and not too short, with a pinkish colour, not very white and not dark, and his hair was neither very curly nor very straight. The Revelation came to him when he was forty years old, and he stayed in Makkah for ten years after the Revelation came, then in Madeenah for ten years. When he died, there were no more than twenty white hairs on his head and in his beard." (al-Bukhaari, 3283).


    His color was dexcribed by his companions as:

    “Neither white like lime, nor tanned, but brown with whiteness predominant.” – [Anas ibn Malik]
    “White, reddish.” – (Hazrath Ali(R.A))
    “White but wholesome.” – (Abu Tufail)
    “White and bright.” – (Hind bin Abi Hala)
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    (Original post by coolguysfwn)
    That is probably becuase the physical description we muslims have of the Prophet is quite different from that.

    al-Bukhari contains the sayings and traditions of the Prophet Muhammad. It is second to only the Quran in islam.

    al-bukhari mentions the following narration:
    "Anas ibn maalik said: 'The Prophet was of average height, not too tall and not too short, with a pinkish colour, not very white and not dark, and his hair was neither very curly nor very straight. The Revelation came to him when he was forty years old, and he stayed in Makkah for ten years after the Revelation came, then in Madeenah for ten years. When he died, there were no more than twenty white hairs on his head and in his beard." (al-Bukhaari, 3283).


    His color was dexcribed by his companions as:

    “Neither white like lime, nor tanned, but brown with whiteness predominant.” – [Anas ibn Malik]
    “White, reddish.” – (Hazrath Ali(R.A))
    “White but wholesome.” – (Abu Tufail)
    “White and bright.” – (Hind bin Abi Hala)
    we have already established that the hadith were written by persian and arab men most likley trying to claim moahmmed looked much lighter in skin tone than he actually may have been ( ie the aryanisation of mohammed, jesus as described by wesley mohammed)
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    all really conjecture by people that never knew or met mohammed -
    Because Ali(ra), the cousin of the Prophet(pbuh) and the 4th Caliphate never met or knew the Prophet(pbuh)?

    Please tell me you're not that stupid?
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    undefined
    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Because Ali(ra), the cousin of the Prophet(pbuh) and the 4th Caliphate never met or knew the Prophet(pbuh)?

    Please tell me you're not that stupid?

    what did Ali , cousin of mohammed specifically write himself about mohammeds
    ethnicity?

    Please tell me you're not that stupid?

    Edit - the answer in case you werent quite sure is that this 'quote' as with all the others were written not in 1st person but hearsay form someone else many years later ie " i heard this guy Ali say this about mohammed" - this is what Wesley mohammed meant by aryanisation of mohammeds ethnicity by later writers of hadith etc
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    (Original post by SEHughes)
    Racism against black people is rather prevalent in the Arab world.
    It is unfortunately. Hopefully they will practise Islam and eradicate it


    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    I had been told be a guy that i had known in university that was american (and a muslim), that he was taught that mohammed was black, or certainly black/mixed race which could be described as typical for that region at the time. He came from an arabic tribe that typically were quite dark skinned and had curly hair (sort of what you would imagine a mixed raced person to look like ( ie brown skin curly hair and some north african features)

    However in making that point to muslims that are not black, was faced with some fairly angry responses. whether he was balck or part black etc, why is there such an angry repsonse to raising this idea in the first place, amoungst muslims?
    Well since its false, it will be attributing a lie, which is offensive to some. If they said he was White, I would hope those offended Muslims feel the same (since the prophet saw wasnt white either)
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    (Original post by sabre2th1)
    It is unfortunately. Hopefully they will practise Islam and eradicate it




    Well since its false, it will be attributing a lie, which is offensive to some. If they said he was White, I would hope those offended Muslims feel the same (since the prophet saw wasnt white either)
    how do you know it was false?
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    Mo' was yellow


    #Thread
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    undefined


    what did Ali , cousin of mohammed specifically write himself about mohammeds
    ethnicity?

    Please tell me you're not that stupid?
    Are you blind or something? (I quoted you already) -


    ‘Ali (RA) described the complexion of the Holy Prophet in the following words:
    كَانَ أَبْيَضَ مشرَّباً بَيَاضُهُ حُمْرَةً، وَكَانَ أَسْوَدَ الْحَدَقَةِ

    “He had white complexion, his whiteness being imbued with redness (abyad musharraban bayaduhu humrah) and his iris was black (awsad).” (Dalail al-Nubuwwah lil-Baihaqi 1/212-213 Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyya Beirut 1405 A.H.)

    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    Edit - the answer in case you werent quite sure is that this 'quote' as with all the others were written not in 1st person but hearsay form someone else many years later ie " i heard this guy Ali say this about mohammed" - this is what Wesley mohammed meant by aryanisation of mohammeds ethnicity by later writers of hadith etc
    You use hadiths only when it fits your agenda (even then you twist and lie), but when it doesn't, you act like it holds no authenticity.

    But let's completely destroy the argument;

    1. Ali(ra) was not the only one who narrated it. In fact, so many narrations from various difference sources, narrate the exact same thing.

    2. The narration from Ali(ra) and the others are very strong. Their chains are considered very strong.
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Are you blind or something? (I quoted you already) -


    ‘Ali (RA) described the complexion of the Holy Prophet in the following words:
    كَانَ أَبْيَضَ مشرَّباً بَيَاضُهُ حُمْرَةً، وَكَانَ أَسْوَدَ الْحَدَقَةِ

    “He had white complexion, his whiteness being imbued with redness (abyad musharraban bayaduhu humrah) and his iris was black (awsad).” (Dalail al-Nubuwwah lil-Baihaqi 1/212-213 Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyya Beirut 1405 A.H.)



    You use hadiths only when it fits your agenda (even then you twist and lie), but when it doesn't, you act like it holds no authenticity.

    But let's completely destroy the argument;

    1. Ali(ra) was not the only one who narrated it. In fact, so many narrations from various difference sources, narrate the exact same thing.

    2. The narration from Ali(ra) and the others are very strong. Their chains are considered very strong.
    ah so now you go from "ali said he was white and he knew him " to this other arab writer said Ali said he was white" Exactly the manipulation of the truth Wesley moahmmed was talking about.

    if you are obsessed over hadith, interesting you ignored those that stated mohammed had 'curly hair and very little body hair' (similar to black /mixed race africans) as oppossed to typical arab men who generally are quite hairy
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    ah so now you go from "ali said he was white and he knew him " to this other arab writer said Ali said he was white" Exactly the manipulation of the truth Wesley moahmmed was talking about.

    if you are obsessed over hadith, interesting you ignored those that stated mohammed had 'curly hair and very little body hair' (similar to black /mixed race africans) as oppossed to typical arab men who generally are quite hairy
    Why can't an arab man be of fair complexion with curly hair and very little body hair?!
    Ive been saudi arabia many times and have seen many fair skinned men with curly hair!
    Haha because you've gone and looked at how much body hair Arab men have you?

    Seriously, WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
    These hadiths are from AL BUKHARI! One of the most authentic books in Islam with very strong hadiths.
    So you and that Wesley dude can go stick your theories where ever you like because your thread is ridiculous. Nobody cares. We're laughing at your ignorance right now.
    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    ah so now you go from "ali said he was white and he knew him " to this other arab writer said Ali said he was white" Exactly the manipulation of the truth Wesley moahmmed was talking about.
    What do you mean "arab writer"? It is based on Hadith narration, and the isnad (chain) of this narration is extremely strong.

    Then there's Isnads reporting the same thing from different sources that are also considered extremely strong.

    So it is impossible to really deny or have a single doubt, unless you want to be in denial.

    Learn about Hadith Sciences;


    The chains of transmitters were therefore carefully scrutinised to make sure that the persons named could in fact have met one another, that they could be trusted to repeat the story accurately, and that they did not hold any heretical views. This implied extensive biographical studies; and many biographical dictionaries have been preserved giving the basic information about a man's teachers and pupils, the views of later scholars (on his reliability as a transmitter) and the date of his death. This biography-based critique of Traditions helped considerably to form a more or less common mind among many men throughout the caliphate about what was to be accepted and what rejected. - W. M. Watt, What Is Islam?, 1968, Longman, Green & Co. Ltd., pp. 124-125.


    To say all these sources/chains are lying is to say there is some kind of "mass conspiracy going on".


    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    if you are obsessed over hadith, interesting you ignored those that stated mohammed had 'curly hair and very little body hair' (similar to black /mixed race africans) as oppossed to typical arab men who generally are quite hairy
    You've never seen an Arab who has curly hair lol?
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    I had been told be a guy that i had known in university that was american (and a muslim), that he was taught that mohammed was black, or certainly black/mixed race which could be described as typical for that region at the time. He came from an arabic tribe that typically were quite dark skinned and had curly hair (sort of what you would imagine a mixed raced person to look like ( ie brown skin curly hair and some north african features)

    However in making that point to muslims that are not black, was faced with some fairly angry responses. whether he was balck or part black etc, why is there such an angry repsonse to raising this idea in the first place, amoungst muslims?
    Your Claim is a complete lie

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