[E.Blackadder]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Even though I don't believe Muhammad is a true prophet from God, I have no desire to draw mocking pictures of him or insult him or those who follow him. I also do not mock or insult Buddha or Charles Darwin or any other person that other people follow for whatever reason. I agree to disagree.

again, the point isn't to necessarily mock but to criticize. you should have the freedom to criticize anything you want in any form you want, whether it is written down or in a cartoon. people may be offended but if you have a point to make then it should be acceptable to express that point.

agreeing to disagree is fine for everyday differences between whatever two religious or non-religious traditions. no one is really getting in the way of each other. however if a serious political or social problem comes up and you want to express your concern with it obviously just saying "lets just agree to disagree" is pointless. it then follows that if you are critical you shouldn't have to have your safety or your life threatened.

(Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
if my memory of reading wiki was correct, there was some unfortunate irony with the woman who helped this campaign
there should also be examples of drawings on there, none of which are deliberately offensive but show the point of the campaign

personally intent is what matters

yeah i remember her saying she no longer wanted to be involved with it. it did get out of hand which is unfortunate.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by E.Blackadder)
again, the point isn't to necessarily mock but to criticize. you should have the freedom to criticize anything you want in any form you want,

Hello E.Blackadder,

Let's say that you were playing a game of football, and people were criticizing your playing. Do you think that people should have the freedom to criticize you in whatever form they want? For example, what if one irate person decided that they should have the right to get on tv and call you every insulting adjective in the book, and curse you out?

I personally think that decency and respect should be used as moderators of the form criticism takes.

Now, it is obvious that to many Muslim people, drawing Muhammad bothers them. It is wrong for them to react with violence (and many if not most Muslims do not react with violence) but it is definitely their right to protest the lack of respect that their belief is being shown.

whether it is written down or in a cartoon. people may be offended but if you have a point to make then it should be acceptable to express that point.

Is there a way to make a point that does not include insults?

agreeing to disagree is fine for everyday differences between whatever two religious or non-religious traditions. no one is really getting in the way of each other. however if a serious political or social problem comes up and you want to express your concern with it obviously just saying "lets just agree to disagree" is pointless. it then follows that if you are critical you shouldn't have to have your safety or your life threatened.

It is true that safety is important. However, respect and kindness are also important. Sad to say, there are mean and rude people in the world, who do not respect other people who are different (whether different in beliefs, ethnicity, sexual desires, or gender). That creates a very hostile and unproductive environment.

As a Christian, there are many things I don't agree with that people who have different beliefs in me do. For example, I don't party and drink and don't agree with people who do that everyday. However, I do not go and make fun of and insult people who do so. Why? Because I agree to disagree. They are entitled to do what they want, and I am entitled to be different. I do have some points as to why I disagree, one of them being that drunk driving kills people, but I'm not going to make my point by insulting and mocking drunk drivers. Do you see what I mean please? Insulting them does not help them, nor does it help my point. (Also, insulting people is not something I believe Jesus wants his followers to do, but again, insulting also does not help drunk people at all.)

Peace and God bless you

[cl_steele]

(Original post by blueray)



If you don't attack first, no one will and if they do, you ignore it and rise above it. They will stop.

unfortunatly history begs to differ on that one

[E.Blackadder]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Hello E.Blackadder,

Let's say that you were playing a game of football, and people were criticizing your playing. Do you think that people should have the freedom to criticize you in whatever form they want? For example, what if one irate person decided that they should have the right to get on tv and call you every insulting adjective in the book, and curse you out?

if they have a reason to. insulting someone for the sake of insulting them is wrong. but if there is a justifiable reason to criticize me then go for it. the key word is criticize, not insult. that is the confusion. while the person or group of people being criticized may find it offensive, it is within the limits of acceptable social behaviour to criticize.

I personally think that decency and respect should be used as moderators of the form criticism takes.

Now, it is obvious that to many Muslim people, drawing Muhammad bothers them. It is wrong for them to react with violence (and many if not most Muslims do not react with violence) but it is definitely their right to protest the lack of respect that their belief is being shown.

i've got no problem with them protesting, but as you said it is wrong of them to react with violence. that is the point. drawing muhammed should bother them if they are drawing him themselves. they are muslim and from what i understand their beliefs say they shouldn't depict him. however i'm not a muslim and if i have a social need to draw him then i should be allowed to. personally i wouldn't want to upset anyone by creating an image of muhammed so i don't but if i thought it was necessary i should retain the right to without fear of a violent response.

Is there a way to make a point that does not include insults?

i'm sure there are. the insulting aspect is not helpful for this campaign. the drawings should be just stick figures or a simple line drawing or painting.

now that drawing in and of itself shouldn't be responded to with threats of violence. south park did an episode about 10 years ago which featured muhammed and they didn't receive any threats.

It is true that safety is important. However, respect and kindness are also important. Sad to say, there are mean and rude people in the world, who do not respect other people who are different (whether different in beliefs, ethnicity, sexual desires, or gender). That creates a very hostile and unproductive environment.

As a Christian, there are many things I don't agree with that people who have different beliefs in me do. For example, I don't party and drink and don't agree with people who do that everyday. However, I do not go and make fun of and insult people who do so. Why? Because I agree to disagree. They are entitled to do what they want, and I am entitled to be different. I do have some points as to why I disagree, one of them being that drunk driving kills people, but I'm not going to make my point by insulting and mocking drunk drivers. Do you see what I mean please? Insulting them does not help them, nor does it help my point. (Also, insulting people is not something I believe Jesus wants his followers to do, but again, insulting also does not help drunk people at all.)

Peace and God bless you

you keep confusing insulting with criticizing. you should be critical of drunk drivers. if they take offense to your criticism then that is on them. they have the right to be offended, but you have the right to not be afraid of them coming after you with a broken beer bottle. am i right? criticize. not insult (however they might perceive criticism as insult but those are the breaks). two very different things. additionally as i said before we are not muslim, we are not bound by islamic law, we should have the right to draw muhammed if we please. i'm not saying we should do it, if they find it disrespectful i will try my hardest not to upset them. but if i think i need to do it then that is my right.

[mariachi]

(Original post by blueray)

The people drawing muhmmad are full grown people and adolescents looking for nothing better than to incite hatred.

rather ridicule than hatred, I would say

and ridicule (what the French say notwithstanding) does not kill, so violent reactions are totally unjustified

if you are ridiculed, just laugh - and ridicule back

it's much healthier than starting off on some personal jihad

[Hypocrism]

(Original post by Christianlady)
As a Christian, there are many things I don't agree with that people who have different beliefs in me do. For example, I don't party and drink and don't agree with people who do that everyday. However, I do not go and make fun of and insult people who do so. Why? Because I agree to disagree. They are entitled to do what they want, and I am entitled to be different. I do have some points as to why I disagree, one of them being that drunk driving kills people, but I'm not going to make my point by insulting and mocking drunk drivers. Do you see what I mean please? Insulting them does not help them, nor does it help my point. (Also, insulting people is not something I believe Jesus wants his followers to do, but again, insulting also does not help drunk people at all.)

Peace and God bless you

But those people will not issue death threats if you said something critical about their "beliefs". That's what the idea of the DMD is about, making sure we keep the attitude that we will express our opinions peacefully if we want to despite the use of force, and won't stand up to violence to quieten people. Once there is no violent reaction to DMD, we will know it's been successful, and it won't have to continue.

[mariachi]

(Original post by Christianlady)
I don't party and drink and don't agree with people who do that everyday

don't be bitter

hopefully life will improve for you in the future

[FrigidSymphony]

Mockery of authority is the very basis of civilization.

[mariachi]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Mockery of authority is the very basis of civilization.

agree entirely

Emperors (and Prophets) can survive armed opposition, but not people finding out that they have no clothes

[Kenocide]

TBH the OP and this whole thread is utterly pointless.

It's basic message is 'We should all try to get along and live in peace.'

As if no one has suggested that idea before. . ?

It's like starting a thread saying 'You know guys, we should solve world hunger. It would be a nice thing to do.' Yeah, of course it would, but you saying it isn't suddenly going to cause 7,000,000,000 people to share an epiphany and come together to work in peace and harmony to achieve it.