[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by kaboon-supreme)
let me give you an example, you will never see a muslim woman on a lads magazin while it is considered an honour in your culture.

Erm... No it isn't considered an "honour"?

[kaboon-supreme]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
I've been saying the same thing for years but people will take offense to it. It's a problem that needs addressing.

Why is it you can tempt a white girl with booze and drugs but not an Asian girl?





Both of these posts are correct but the question still needs to be asked -- why is it possible to "take advantage" of these white girls in the first place?

trust me, if you say this they will shoot you down and make it out like you support the abusers.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by kaboon-supreme)
how i don't know how you can say that when the lady just said it was her choice, you are soo blinded by your hate toward islam and muslims that you fail to see that your women are really the oppressed ones. let me give you an example, you will never see a muslim woman on a lads magazin while it is considered an honour in your culture.

I think you need to open your eyes, Sila Sahin, Sahara Knite, Donia etc, proabably a whole bunch more that wouldnt dare to admit being muslim girls. Not that it has anything to do with this case, which is about muslims men showing tendency in raping underage children largely. We know also many muslim countries have a massive interest in porn, so islam has no influence on sexual modesty.

[kaboon-supreme]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
I think you need to open your eyes, Sila Sahin, Sahara Knite, Donia etc, proabably a whole bunch more that wouldnt dare to admit being muslim girls. Not that it has anything to do with this case, which is about muslims men showing tendency in raping underage children largely. We know also many muslim countries have a massive interest in porn, so islam has no influence on sexual modesty.

looooooooooool how can you say muslims have a massive intrest in porn while your children watch it. the whole of christianity is based on child sex and other forms of disturbing sex (gay). while your churche leaders bash homo sexuality they suck dicks behind closed doors. plus give a muslim pornstar as i can simply give you lots of openly christian pornstars. just stop deniying that christian men force their woman to be sex objects

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by kaboon-supreme)
looooooooooool how can you say muslims have a massive intrest in porn while your children watch it. the whole of christianity is based on child sex and other forms of disturbing sex (gay). while your churche leaders bash homo sexuality they suck dicks behind closed doors. plus give a muslim pornstar as i can simply give you lots of openly christian pornstars. just stop deniying that christian men force their woman to be sex objects

we know musli men have "a massive interst in orn" becuase Google Research showed its results showing muslim countries topped the search enquires for various types of porn - it was well publisesed in the news. And the fact that various muslim men are being sent to jail for paediphillia and a female muslim has gone on record to warn about it, also kind of proves islam doesnt do anything for sexual modesty, as i have said before. i think your ideas are detatched significantly from reality .

And I think you asked for examples of muslim women in lads mags and were given them, what did you want exactly for asking that question?

[Florrick]

(Original post by Bonged.)
Doesn't need a caliphate, just a nation. Which you have in the ummah - the nation of believers. Conversely you have the kuffar , who inhabit the nations of disbelievers (dar al harb, or house of war). So it's not that hard to switch caliphate to ummah and "enemies of islam" to whoever you feel is harming Islam on that particular day.

Who is we? Most people in the UK are tired of hearing about british soldiers being killed by their "allies" and seeing various homecoming parades from our beloved "british muslim" community, very few people want this war.

How is it misquoted? No true scotsman eh?

1. The Islamic beliefs are clear:
Rape is haram (also, note this link resolves the misconceptions of rape victims being punished).
Facilitating the use of alcohol is haram.
Facilitating drug abuse is haram.
Mingling with people of the opposite sex is haram.



2. Let’s start with ‘whom your right hand possesses’. In accordance to Islam, this refers to prisoners of war and not children of women of infidels or promised to be taken as you described.
They are not ‘whom your right hand possesses’.



3. Prisoners of war only occur by the cause of physical jihad on the battlefield only against fighting military troops to deter aggression.

The conditions of war in Islam are outlined here:

The word Jihad is mistranslated as “Holy War”. The Arabic equivalent of “Holy War” is harb-u-muqadasah. This term is not found in any verse of the Qur’an. Jihad means struggle and in one way what this can actually mean at the collective level is armed self-defence of the Islamic state (caliphate), as well as retribution against tyranny, exploitation, treachery and oppression. Also, just like any empire, of course, the caliphate desired to expand and defend itself from possible attacks outside.

They are those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, “our Lord is Allah”. [22:39-40]


And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? – Men, women and children, whose cry is: “Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!” [4:75]


“If you fear treachery from any group, throw back (their treaty) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms. Lo! Allah loves not the treacherous.” [8:58]

Rules of Engagement:

Military conflict is to be directed only against fighting troops and not against civilians:

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors” [2:190]

As far as the non-combatant population is concerned such as women, children, the old and the infirm, etc., the instructions of the Prophet are as follows:“Do not kill any old person, any child or any woman” “Do not kill the monks in monasteries” or “Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship.”

During a war, the Prophet saw the corpse of a woman lying on the ground and observed: "She was not fighting. How then she came to be killed?" From this statement of the Prophet the exegetists and jurists have drawn the principle that those who are non-combatants should not be killed during or after the war.

There is nothing in the Islamic beliefs that permit a Muslim to fight against non-Muslims solely on the basis that they are not Muslim, let alone becoming a cause for street grooming. This is a slippery slope with you forcibly trying to merge Islamic concepts by false inferences of war to unIslamic actions such as rape. Your points are nonsensical.



4. Dar al harb does not mean a nation of disbelievers as you incorrectly said. You can have everybody in the land being a Muslim yet they reside in Dar al harb. What matters in determining whether the land is Dar al harb to Dar al Islam is the laws and the security.

Definitions:

Dar al harb is defined as the land which is governed by the Non-Islamic laws and whose security is not maintained by the security of Islam, i.e. by other than the authority and security of Muslims, even if the majority of its inhabitants are Muslims.

Dar al-Islam is defined as the land which is governed by the laws of Islam and whose security is maintained by the security of Islam, i.e. by the authority and protection of Muslims inside and outside the land, even if the majority of its inhabitants are non-Muslims. For more info, look here.

Now, it is argued by Sheikh Taqi ud-deen an-Nabhan that the whole world is Dar al harb at present considering Islamic law in its totality is not present and neither is the security of Muslims by the security of Islam- Muslims must be able to enjoy peace and protected status everywhere.[1] (see definitions above for detail). Today, the situation is messed up in that Muslims migrate to European countries to escape persecution, poverty and oppression from majority-Muslim countries. In fact, in some cases, Muslims serving Islam better by migrating to a Non-Muslim country. To apply this concept of Dar al Harb with war by street grooming is misleading. This is tied in with regional politics and not simply being a disbeliever.



5. You’re entirely inconsistent. You talk about No true Scotsman, yet you use Islamic law when it suits you i.e. disregard what Islam believes about war, whom your right hand possesses and its stance on rape but bring up the Islamic concept of dar al Harb albeit incorrectly to try and justify your own warped view of street grooming being a part of Islam. If you want to talk about Islam, talk from Islam’s point of view by tracing back to the Qur’an and the Sunnah (practises of Mohammed).



Islam can be scapegoated and it’s pretty clear what the consequences are:
From Ibn ‘Abbas: Allah's messenger said: "He who says (something) concerning the Qur'an without knowledge, he has taken his seat of fire".



Sometimes, Muslims can't just read the translation and proclaim to know what the Qur'an means. Traditionally, across the board, we ask what tools we must have to derive the proper conclusions about the text. The Qur'an resolves this by informing the reader how it is supposed to be interpreted (in 3:7). Don't add more to the meanings of the words than are actually there. If you find a statement whose meaning seems unclear to you, don't try to settle on any particular meaning unless you have clarified it. Some verses may be explained by comparison with other verses and some by using the instructions and teachings of the Prophet or the Imams quoting the commentaries of the Prophet.

To make this task easier of right and wrong in Islam, there is an area called tasfeers (the Arabic word for exegesis or commentary) which help clarify the meanings of the Qur’an. Here is a link that does the explaining of the Qur'an for you. The truth of the matter is you already have a view of Islam to begin with, and try to force the Qur'an to agree with that, assigning meanings to statements which are unclear on their own. This is done by selectively reading. Of course, that method will create contradictions.




6. Respect is ordained to be shown from those who do not actively attempt to persecute and oppress you as 60:08 states, ''Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers''.

And I know people point out but the Qur’an says not to befriend Jews and Christians. Muslims (the men anyway) can inter-marry with Jews and Christians, so how does that work? Muslims can’t befriend Christians and Jews yet can marry them? Something doesn't make sense does it? As you can see it’s because that verse is misrepresented.
The verse is correct, but it's in past tense. All non-Muslims at that point, whatever their own differences, had made common cause against Islam (in 60:9). The Muslims are warned that they should not expect protection from any party of them whether Jews, Christians, or idolaters. So the Qur'an forbids taking those as protectors who expel the Muslims from their homes and who would betray and attack as soon as the opportunity arises.

The actual job of a Muslim is to invite people to Islam kindly using reasoning and logic. Whether this results in their conversion or not is irrelevant - his job is done.
16:125- “Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching, and reason with them, and argue with them, in the ways that are best and most gracious".

Islam does not teach, nor do Muslims desire, conversion of any people for fear, greed, marriage or any other form of coercion.
88:21, 22 - "Therefore remind them (about Islam) - for you are only a reminder. You are not one to manage their own affairs".

One of the key aspirations of religion is to inspire others. You can’t do that by rape. Period.




7. The truth is that these guys see women as commodities and European women even more so, for a variety of reasons. The first reason is that they, as males, can do as they please before marriage. The "boys will be boys" double standard allows them to get away with unIslamic things like alcoholism, gambling, premarital sex, rape and so on whilst their sisters are on a tight leash at home. These men have a huge entitlement complex and will happily ditch Islamic values because they have learnt that there are zero consequences against doing so. Why would there be? Honour is something only women can ruin in their culture.



The second reason is that Asian women are inaccessible to them until marriage. And in order for them to 'gain' access to the Asian women they want: they need to have respectable jobs, savings and enough money to pay for the dowry and wedding. These guys are all criminals who possess none of those things. It's far quicker and more cost effective for them to prey on innocent girls from broken families than it is for them to attack their own. The older you become, it’s expected there’s more resistance to sexual advances, hence why they preyed on younger and vulnerable girls particularly from care homes coupled with racist sentiment to try and justify their attitude towards rape. A real Muslim community runs with the Qur’an and the Sunnah as rule, now go walk through Rusholme on Friday nights, you’re not likely to see Islamic missionary activity peddling around shisha bars.

[Florrick]

(Original post by BACTSR2)
Well some of those were murder cases as well or involved homosexual rape. Anyway, I strongly suspect that minorities in Saudi Arabia are particularly under threat from rape and then the legal system itself. One of those articles stated that half of the people executed for murder were foreigners. I would what happens when some asian maid who works for a Saudi family gets raped. There was a case of the attackers being executed in you links, but what happens to the maid? Flogging?

Suspect what you will.



The evidence has been presented to you already.

[BACTSR2]

Yes and I have analysed it. I wouldn't trust Saudi Arabian sharia courts. That country isn't even a democracy.

Also, the same Muslims I've heard talking about how they see women who don't cover their hair as immodest in lectures on Islam go to the student bar and walk back loudly bragging about how "she would have been up for it if she'd had one more drink". A lot of people are using Islam to try and make poor white people who have the misfortune of living in failed industrial areas with large Muslim populations second class citizens, which is, if you are honest, exactly what they would be under shariah law.

[Florrick]

(Original post by BACTSR2)
Yes and I have analysed it. I wouldn't trust Saudi Arabian sharia courts. That country isn't even a democracy.

That's your problem then.

They're an "I$lamic"state- not a democracy in any sense and never claimed to be one.

Also, the same Muslims I've heard talking about how they see women who don't cover their hair as immodest in lectures on Islam go to the student bar and walk back loudly bragging about how "she would have been up for it if she'd had one more drink".

Terrible. I condemn that as much as you do.

A lot of people are using Islam to try and make poor white people who have the misfortune of living in failed industrial areas with large Muslim populations second class citizens

Terrible. I condemn that as much as you do.

which is, if you are honest, exactly what they would be under shariah law.

There isn't a class system denoted in the Qur'an or the Sunnah. Tbh, I'm off to asleep.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by starshine123)
Let me reiterate: you know sh it all. If you honestly think someone who is forced to observe a religion is without a doubt a part of that religion then you are thicker than I initially thought.

Islam says 'there is no compulsion religion' so once again you are bull****ting. This is a classic case of an ignorant anglaphone hopping on his highhorse and deciding he knows everything about Islam or an ethnic minority simply because he's read a few articles.

No Pakistani culture is not largely Islamic. I would know I grew up in it. How the **** can you sit there and tell me what my culture is about. Seriously get over yourself.

all muslims beleive that islamic cultire is more important than regional culture - they are told to do so. I t isnt pakistani culture that tells you to go to mosuqe, eat only halal food or circumcise your children. if you dont beleive in that then you dont beleive in islam simple as that - no high horse required.

[Blue Man]

Funny how you Muslims are desperate to escapeIslamic culture and migrate and seek asylum in the West

[starshine123]

(Original post by Blue Man)
Funny how you Muslims are desperate to escapeIslamic culture and migrate and seek asylum in the West

I'm not I was born here. If anything I'm seeking to migrate back to a muslim majority country, and no that does not equate to migrating to an 'Isamic culture'. How difficult is it to grasp that a muslim majority country does not equate to a national Islamic culture.

Funny how you Brits seem to conveniantly forget your blood-mongering history, and how you practically begged workers from 3rd world countries/ex-colonies to migrate over after WWII to help get YOUR country back on it's feet by doing the menial jobs you lot couldn't freakin fill. Then you go around acting like the world ows you a debt. Get the hell off.

[starshine123]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
all muslims beleive that islamic cultire is more important than regional culture - they are told to do so. I t isnt pakistani culture that tells you to go to mosuqe, eat only halal food or circumcise your children. if you dont beleive in that then you dont beleive in islam simple as that - no high horse required.

You obviously haven't digested a word I wrote. It's like talking to a brick wall. As I previously said, just another white guy who thinks he's an expert in ethnic cultures just because he's read a few articles. You're living in a bubble.

[snozzle]

(Original post by starshine123)
Islam says 'there is no compulsion religion' so once again you are bull****ting.

Yet Islam forbids apostasy and Muslim kids don't get to choose Islam, they just get indoctrinated into it.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by starshine123)
You obviously haven't digested a word I wrote. It's like talking to a brick wall. As I previously said, just another white guy who thinks he's an expert in ethnic cultures just because he's read a few articles. You're living in a bubble.

i read all that you wrote, you just happen to be wrong, type something accurate and i will agree with you.

i dont think im any sort of expert, i simply know that islam defines its own cultrue as superior to you own national culture and therefore muslims are bound to follow isalmic culture first, or they ar not practicing muslims.

You could argue middle aged men having sex with children is not pakistani culutre, but in islam? we know mohammed did the same didnt he, Wasnt he a muslim man>

[aqquaintance_sport]

(Original post by starshine123)
I'm not I was born here. If anything I'm seeking to migrate back to a muslim country, and no that does not equate to migrating to an 'Isamic culture'. How difficult is it to grasp that a muslim majority country does not equate to a national Islamic culture.

Funny how you Brits seem to conveniantly forget your blood-mongering history, and how you practically begged workers from 3rd world countries/ex-colonies to migrate over after WWII to help get YOUR country back on it's feet by doing the menial jobs you lot couldn't freakin fill. Then you go around acting like the world ows you a debt. Get the hell off.

'Funny how you Brits seem to conveniantly forget your blood-mongering history'

a bit rich, don't you think? maybe you should look into Islamic history & see what you find. If anything, your just another person who lives in the country, lives of 'you brits' and hates the country.

[aqquaintance_sport]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
This is 100% spot on.

The real racists are the ones turning this into a race issue.

I suppose, by your thinking, black men need to sort out why they're being targeted by the cops, right>?

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by aqquaintance_sport)
I suppose, by your thinking, black men need to sort out why they're being targeted by the cops, right>?

Racist detected.

Post reported.

[aqquaintance_sport]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
Racist detected.

Post reported.

From somebody who layed blame to 'white girls' for being preyed upon by muslims because, in your words, they're renowned for 'sucking c***'. ??

Not only that, but you have Malcom X in that profile picture?

I'll also be reporting your support for Malcolm, along with your racist post about ' white whores'. As you liked to put it.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by aqquaintance_sport)
From somebody who said that blame 'white girls' for being preyed upon by muslims because, in your words, they're renowned for 'sucking c***'.

Not only that, but has Malcom X in his profile picture?

I'll also be reporting your support for Malcolm, along with your racist post about ' white whores'

u wot m8?