The Benefit System
Discuss issues related to the politics of the UK, such as the actions of any MP, any current or potential law, or any other factor affecting the British political system.
| Announcements | Posted on | |
|---|---|---|
| Ask me ANYTHING - Andrew O'Neill - Buzzcocks comedian, amateur occultist, vegan... | 22-05-2013 | |
-
- Reputation:
- Exalted and Worshipped Member
- Posts: 1,203
Re: The Benefit SystemWho said it was a human right?(Original post by Iron Lady)
The idea of benefits is to ensure they can survive.
I'm certain people can survive without watching rubbish on the television. It's frightening that people see Sky as their "human right".
-
- Reputation:
- Section Moderator
- Indie Kid
Re: The Benefit SystemBecause of course, people never buy things on credit, do they?(Original post by muddywaters51)
Well if they can afford plasma screens and sky then maybe it suggests they have been given too much money by the government.
Where do you draw the line? Tax credits are benefits and depending on your situation, you can receive them whilst on a high wage.They shouldn't have sky if they are on benefits. -
- Reputation:
- TSR Idol
- Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
- Posts: 9,801
Re: The Benefit SystemI'll have to assume you're not a history student as welfare initiatives under capitalism were started long before 1945. Moreover, the Labour government of 1945 ultimately operated within the capitalist paradigm for all they had some policies that were orientated towards socialist values.(Original post by Quady)
Curse the capitalist 1945 Labour Govt that created 'the system'.
And my point still stands - welfare under capitalism is very much an element of it, cynically aimed at keeping those who are exploited and/or alienated from conditions so desperate that they would kill the haves for food, water, shelter and medicine.Last edited by Oswy; 18-06-2012 at 14:18. -
- Reputation:
- Overlord in Training
- Location: Nottingham
- Posts: 2,865
Re: The Benefit SystemHence why it is terrible to have a socialist government in the UK. Providing more than we need to is a complete waste of money and breeds over-reliance on the state.(Original post by Oswy)
And my point still stands - welfare under capitalism is very much an element of it, cynically aimed at keeping those who are exploited and/or alienated from conditions so desperate that they would kill the haves for food, water, shelter and medicine.
Actually, we are very far from having conditions that desperate.Last edited by ForKicks; 18-06-2012 at 14:40. -
- Reputation:
- New Member
- Posts: 4
Re: The Benefit System- Jobseeker's allowance - Yes - Provising the receiver intends to find work.
- Disability & Incapacity benefits - Yes - Providing the receiver is truly disabled, & if the chance of them holding down a run-of-the-mill job is impossible.
Sadly too many people do not fall into this criteria, & I know that 8 out of 10 disability benefit claimants are perfectly capable of working.
It's hard not to get wound-up, when the government take a massive bite of the money you get up every morning to earn, & then another chunk of your wallet at the petrol station, & then nibble of your change when you buy a pint at the pub. It's nice to know a large portion of that is going to those dear folk who just can't be bothered to work god bless 'em. -
- Reputation:
- Overlord in Training
- Location: Nottingham
- Posts: 2,865
Re: The Benefit SystemI guess we can take solace in the fact that they will still live a crap life(Original post by Rottweiler22)
a large portion of that is going to those dear folk who just can't be bothered to work god bless 'em.
-
- Reputation:
- TSR Legend
- Posts: 13,062
Re: The Benefit SystemNothing really before 1900 and since then its been the liberals and labour who have brought them in. From what you're suggesting they have been propping up capitalism yet the Tories have been undermining it by reducing welfare.(Original post by Oswy)
I'll have to assume you're not a history student as welfare initiatives under capitalism were started long before 1945. Moreover, the Labour government of 1945 ultimately operated within the capitalist paradigm for all they had some policies that were orientated towards socialist values.
And my point still stands - welfare under capitalism is very much an element of it, cynically aimed at keeping those who are exploited and/or alienated from conditions so desperate that they would kill the haves for food, water, shelter and medicine.
Lloyd George and Beveridge were cynically aiming to support capitalism? -
- Reputation:
- Section Moderator
- Indie Kid
Re: The Benefit SystemWhere's your evidence? it's perfectly legal to claim disability benefits and work.(Original post by Rottweiler22)
Sadly too many people do not fall into this criteria, & I know that 8 out of 10 disability benefit claimants are perfectly capable of working. -
- Reputation:
- Banned
- Posts: 204
Re: The Benefit SystemI dont care how they fund it, if this is the lifestyle theyre able to live then my point still stands.(Original post by OU Student)
Because of course, people never buy things on credit, do they?
Where do you draw the line? Tax credits are benefits and depending on your situation, you can receive them whilst on a high wage. -
- Reputation:
- TSR Deity
Re: The Benefit SystemThe pilot projects of the Work Capability Assessment have shown that roughly a third are perfectly capable of work, a further third can be assisted into work with the proper support in time and the remaining third are genuinely unable to work. This has been an enormous problem over the years, not only for the Exchequer, but for disabled people themselves - no-one benefits.(Original post by OU Student)
Where's your evidence? it's perfectly legal to claim disability benefits and work. -
- Reputation:
- Section Moderator
- Indie Kid
Re: The Benefit SystemSome of those third who are found to be fit for work are then told they can't claim JSA. Why? Because they're not fit for work.(Original post by L i b)
The pilot projects of the Work Capability Assessment have shown that roughly a third are perfectly capable of work, a further third can be assisted into work with the proper support in time and the remaining third are genuinely unable to work. This has been an enormous problem over the years, not only for the Exchequer, but for disabled people themselves - no-one benefits.
Under the old system, it was much better. You were exempt if you had certain medical conditions. The reason being that you'd score enough points; so it was pointless calling you in for a medical. This doesn't happen any more. Yes, some do get put into one of the groups because they're forms have been in filled in such a way that there's enough information to say whether they can work. But very few people are now exempt from filling the forms in.
The criteria means that some people who are seriously ill aren't entitled to benefits. I know someone who has been to tribunal twice and is too ill to work. But he doesn't fit the criteria. He can't work because due to COPD, he gets chronic chest infections regularly and last year, was ill for 70 odd days. Therefore, no JSA. This means he's been stuck on the assessment phase for almost 4 years now.Last edited by OU Student; 24-06-2012 at 13:26. -
- Reputation:
- TSR Deity
Re: The Benefit SystemI think you're confusing the Work Related Activity Group with the non-eligible group. In those cases, they are entitled to a different benefits regime.(Original post by OU Student)
Some of those third who are found to be fit for work are then told they can't claim JSA. Why? Because they're not fit for work.
A number of people are exempt, but in general the principle is that people should be assessed - and that a face-to-face assessment is by far the best method to do that. More importantly, it ensures that people's needs continue to be appropriately met by the welfare system.Under the old system, it was much better. You were exempt if you had certain medical conditions. The reason being that you'd score enough points; so it was pointless calling you in for a medical. -
- Reputation:
- Section Moderator
- Indie Kid
Re: The Benefit SystemI'm not. There really are people who are told they can't claim ESA because they're fit for work and are then told they can't claim JSA because they're unfit for work.(Original post by L i b)
I think you're confusing the Work Related Activity Group with the non-eligible group. In those cases, they are entitled to a different benefits regime.
http://toomanycuts.blogspot.co.uk/20...a-and-jsa.html
http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/2622/
Need I go on? -
- Reputation:
- TSR Demigod
- Posts: 5,339
Re: The Benefit Systemconsiderably less than it costs in HB and council tax benefits plus the expenditure of policing, social services , emergency healthcare ...(Original post by Origami Bullets)
And how much is that going to cost the taxpayer?! -
- Reputation:
- TSR Idol
- Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
- Posts: 9,801
Re: The Benefit SystemHeh, 1900 isn't 1945, nice backslide there. Nevertheless, the implementation of universal and free education for children was well established prior to 1900 and you can hardly call that a trivial form of welfare.(Original post by Quady)
Nothing really before 1900 and since then its been the liberals and labour who have brought them in. From what you're suggesting they have been propping up capitalism yet the Tories have been undermining it by reducing welfare.
Lloyd George and Beveridge were cynically aiming to support capitalism?
What I don't think you're grasping is that welfare under capitalism is very much a form of welfare for capitalist ends, as opposed to, for example, welfare under socialism which, obviously enough, would be welfare for socialist ends. Simply talking about 'welfare' as if it floats in the ideological aether is to fall short of a deeper understanding as to what 'welfare' is about - in its wider context. -
- Reputation:
- Junior Member
- Posts: 67
Re: The Benefit SystemI can't live with my parents and instead live with my bf, if it wasn't for benefits I wouldn't of been able to continue with my studies and would have no hope for the future. I am hoping to go to uni and everything. You don't get much benefits, I scrap by on mine. i couldn't afford a plasma tv, I barely afford a phone and only recently got one for safety purposes.
I am grateful for the benefit system but every time I get a letter about my benefits or have to go to the job centre I feel ashamed, people look at me like i'm scum. it's not my fault I have to rely on the gov. and I can't wait to get off the system.
Don't judge the system, judge the people who cheat it...
