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The Benefit System

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Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
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    (Original post by muddywaters51)
    After you read my post do you think I would agree with people earning 60k+ recieving any benefits at all? I disagree with government benefits, just like I disagree with government foreign aid. Both are forced charities. People should in my opinion feel a responsibility to give to charity but shouldnt be forced.

    A 42 inch plasma TV (seems to be the minimum size for these people) is going to cost £400-£600 + the annual TV licence of £130 is not cheap. The point is that people on benefits still seem to be able to complain about their situation all while affording recent technology which costs 100s of pounds.

    When I give money to a charity in Zimbabwe or Mozambique I don't expect that money to go towards people with plasma TVs and I dont expect them to use my money to buy plasma TVs.
    People should also stop murdering each other and stealing from each other - never gonna happen.

    The sole reason we have governmental foreign aid is because, on the whole, the British public is far too greedy and selfish to help others voluntarily.
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    (Original post by muddywaters51)
    After you read my post do you think I would agree with people earning 60k+ recieving any benefits at all? I disagree with government benefits, just like I disagree with government foreign aid. Both are forced charities. People should in my opinion feel a responsibility to give to charity but shouldnt be forced.

    A 42 inch plasma TV (seems to be the minimum size for these people) is going to cost £400-£600 + the annual TV licence of £130 is not cheap. The point is that people on benefits still seem to be able to complain about their situation all while affording recent technology which costs 100s of pounds.

    When I give money to a charity in Zimbabwe or Mozambique I don't expect that money to go towards people with plasma TVs and I dont expect them to use my money to buy plasma TVs.
    Same with student loans.
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    (Original post by callum9999)
    People should also stop murdering each other and stealing from each other - never gonna happen.

    The sole reason we have governmental foreign aid is because, on the whole, the British public is far too greedy and selfish to help others voluntarily.
    Murder and charity arent the same thing. The fact that my tax money goes on foreign charities is disgusting and the fact I am forced to pay into charity here (social security) is not much better. I shouldnt HAVE to help out a poor family, no one should force me to help them. If I want to I can, if I dont then I shouldnt have to. Just like if I were poor, no one should be forced to help me.

    (Original post by Quady)
    Same with student loans.
    dont agree with government student loans or caps on university fees
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    Whilst obviously the benefit system is milked by a few, it is a necessary part of our society and is a lifeline for many underprivileged people in our country. I'm always cautious around people who sweepingly criticise the system, yet have never experienced being in the system itself, or at least talked to people, genuinely with an open mind, who have.

    There are people out there who have applied for hundreds of jobs and been rejected from every single one, because there simply aren't jobs out there, or they simply cannot do other jobs. In past shipping strongholds and coal villages of the North, thousands are left unemployed and these workers aren't able to move into other employment because they've spent their whole life doing manual labour in the small communities they live in, not office work in large urban cities. Those who do still work, work for pitiful amounts, but keep going as their job is their livelihood.

    That's just one example which I picked up from Feargal Keane's 'A foreign correspondent's view of Britain', but there are plenty of other people out there who struggle to live, even on the benefits system. I'd rather there be an over-lenient system, than and under-lenient one that condemns all these people to lose out on what little they have left. Of course, the answer is, and always has been jobs. It's a good idea to set up a good environment for job growth before you constrict the benefits system - otherwise, where will people go? You've removed their benefits, sometimes rightfully, mostly wrongfully - but where do they go then if there simply aren't jobs? If the government wants to reduce the strain of the welfare system, then it should be focusing on economic and job growth, not cutting benefits and austerity.
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    (Original post by Origami Bullets)
    I'm sure it's nice to be so young, naive and comfortably off that you and your family have never been in the position of having no choice but to claim benefits.

    95% of people on benefits - particularly at the moment when there are far more people out of work than there are jobs - want to get [back] into work as quickly as possible, but have no alternative to claiming benefits if they wish to keep a roof over their heads and feed their children.
    you've obviously never been to Bradford.The only people round there trying to get a job are the ladies selling themselves on lumb lane!
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    I believe that if someone is unemployed, and then has a baby while they are unemployed, they should not receive more benefits for having the baby.
    Obviously if someone has already has kids when they become unemployed they should get more money because they have kids because it isn't their fault.
    But if someone is unemployed, they should not be becoming pregnant! And they should not be rewarded for doing so with more benefits! Anyone having a baby whilst on benefits is almost certainly a benefit scrounger, because those genuinely looking for a job would wait until they found one to have a baby, so we are paying benefit scroungers to breed, and they will most likely be breeding kids who will go on to become benefit scroungers themselves.
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    (Original post by callum9999)
    People should also stop murdering each other and stealing from each other - never gonna happen.

    The sole reason we have governmental foreign aid is because, on the whole, the British public is far too greedy and selfish to help others voluntarily.
    :confused: You're joking, right? The UK is one of the most charitable nations on the planet, we're actually ranked 5th according to the World Giving Index. The reason the UK gov't gives aid is because it provides cushy jobs for those 'working' in the public sector.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    :confused: You're joking, right? The UK is one of the most charitable nations on the planet, we're actually ranked 5th according to the World Giving Index. The reason the UK gov't gives aid is because it provides cushy jobs for those 'working' in the public sector.
    £40bn/year for 2,000 jobs (ie £20m/job) is probably not why they are doing it.

    Otherwise they'd just employ another 10,000 people in HMRC for £200m.

    Its for politicians to say their dong is bigger because they are more charitable than the next country.
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    With foreign aid please note there is a difference between the amount pledged and the amount actually given
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    Personally against benefits, but the argument that without them many people would turn to crime without benefits does make sense, hence it could be argued it is a 'bribe'...
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    (Original post by izpenguin)
    Anyone having a baby whilst on benefits is almost certainly a benefit scrounger, because those genuinely looking for a job would wait until they found one to have a baby, so we are paying benefit scroungers to breed, and they will most likely be breeding kids who will go on to become benefit scroungers themselves.
    Does that include the carer on carers allowance, who saves the country billions a year?
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    (Original post by muddywaters51)
    Murder and charity arent the same thing. The fact that my tax money goes on foreign charities is disgusting and the fact I am forced to pay into charity here (social security) is not much better. I shouldnt HAVE to help out a poor family, no one should force me to help them. If I want to I can, if I dont then I shouldnt have to. Just like if I were poor, no one should be forced to help me.
    I didn't say they were the same thing... That's your opinion.

    (Original post by chefdave)
    :confused: You're joking, right? The UK is one of the most charitable nations on the planet, we're actually ranked 5th according to the World Giving Index. The reason the UK gov't gives aid is because it provides cushy jobs for those 'working' in the public sector.
    Being "one of the most charitable" amongst a bunch of uncharitable people doesn't mean a lot... And having a brief look at the "World giving index" doesn't give me any confidence that it's remotely meaningful.

    Your last point makes very little sense. I wouldn't imagine there are many public sector jobs relying on foreign aid - especially as this government is clearly focussed on getting rid of as many public sector jobs as possible...
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    Only have benefits for disabled people and tax credits for poor working families. There; sorted.

    We could then spend all of that money on improving our infastructure, housing, the NHS, education and science and research industries to truly improve our society for the better for decades to come.
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    (Original post by Spaz Man)
    Only have benefits for disabled people and tax credits for poor working families. There; sorted.

    We could then spend all of that money on improving our infastructure, housing, the NHS, education and science and research industries to truly improve our society for the better for decades to come.
    Poverty for the over 70s here we come
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Sorry, what exactly do you expect pensioners to do?

    After the decades of work they've done its a bit rich to say they are 'milking' society.
    I think OP meant people who haven't and won't work simply because they are too bone idle.

    I completely agree with pensioners getting support, as many have worked hard over their lifetimes, however I am also in support of the system getting tougher as no way should it be ever allowed for somebody on benefit to get more money, than people who put in the effort to work.
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    (Original post by MissMuffin95)
    I think OP meant people who haven't and won't work simply because they are too bone idle.

    I completely agree with pensioners getting support, as many have worked hard over their lifetimes, however I am also in support of the system getting tougher as no way should it be ever allowed for somebody on benefit to get more money, than people who put in the effort to work.
    Then why did the OP quote the figure of £194bn on welfare?
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    (Original post by MissMuffin95)
    however I am also in support of the system getting tougher as no way should it be ever allowed for somebody on benefit to get more money, than people who put in the effort to work.
    But you can only compare the person out of work with someone in work whose situation is exactly the same - couple, same number of children, etc.

    Depending on the situation, you can get more in benefits by working.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Poverty for the over 70s here we come
    If they have low-cost housing and a world class health care and education system, the chances of that would be very low.
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    (Original post by Spaz Man)
    If they have low-cost housing and a world class health care and education system, the chances of that would be very low.
    Suddenly they'll start saving a £200k pension pot to provide a £14k private pension?

    Really?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Suddenly they'll start saving a £200k pension pot to provide a £14k private pension?

    Really?
    Why can't people save up themselves? With a lower welfare bill, there would be lower taxes hence more to save. Not to mention that due to lower spending, we may be able to actually afford stimulus deficit spending in recessions to prevent the destruction of private pension funds.

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Updated: July 10, 2012
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