[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Hello MrHayden,

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or serious, but I do indeed think that the ancient polytheistic beliefs are interesting. One thing that really makes me upset is that "Christians" have persecuted and killed polytheists, because it is clear in Jesus' teachings to not persecute or kill, but rather love one's enemies.

You're aware that the patron saint of Norway, for example, was martyred by the Church for dying in a peasant uprising that occurred because they were fed up of being killed for not being Christian, right?

[Aphotic Cosmos]

Frankly, if you're going to have a deity, they may as well be badass like the pantheons of classical and dark age europe, whether they be Norse, Roman, Celtic or Egyptian.

But better yet, have no gods.

[hamijack]

Well my opinion is that Odin promised an end to Frost Giants and Jesus promised and end to wicked people. I sure as hell don't see any Frost Giants wondering around.

[Id and Ego seek]

(Original post by hamijack)
Well my opinion is that Odin promised an end to Frost Giants and Jesus promised and end to wicked people. I sure as hell don't see any Frost Giants wondering around.

That joke is older than Elli.

[hamijack]

(Original post by Id and Ego seek)
That joke is older than Elli.

Who said it was a joke? I see no Frost Giants, but I still see wicked men. I'd say that alone gives me more reason to believe in the Norse Pantheon that it does in the Christian God.

[Id and Ego seek]

(Original post by hamijack)
Who said it was a joke? I see no Frost Giants, but I still see wicked men. I'd say that alone gives me more reason to believe in the Norse Pantheon that it does in the Christian God.

Haha right

[Lilio Candidior]

Since my childhood in Sweden I have always associated the pagan myths with nursery rhymes and childrens books, that's pretty much the way I heard of them as a child. That's why I find it pretty funny when people talk about them all serious-like.

I really appreciate having a person as educated in these matters as Hylean here, but I'd like to add that a few years ago I did some research together with the Society for the Old Customs (formerly the Asatro-society of Sweden) about their beliefs. My conclusions were that their views were primarily pantheist and shamanist, and that that was how they viewed themselves as well.


I for one, find that basing ones religious beliefs on the coolness factor of it is insincere and shallow, which I sadly find to be the tendency among not just a few of those who call themselves pagans.

[A Perfect Circle]

These older gods are so much cooler than the gods of today.

I mean the Christian god saw that Adam and Eve ate a few of his favourite apples and had a bitchfit.

That is some pussyass **** right there.

[Big-Daddy]

(Original post by navarre)
I do think that the success of Christianity is its adaptability, which small religions such as Norse mythology simply could not contend with.

Norse mythology is still very boring and pales in comparison to the Greco-Roman pantheon, though. And nothing compares to the Egyptian gods and goddesses. The stories of those gods and goddesses with crocodile/bird bodies gave me wild dreams when I was little, and they still excite me even today.

I prefer the Greek Pantheon to pretty much everything else. Such cleverly crafted stories are worthy of devotion!

[Big-Daddy]

(Original post by Lilio Candidior)
I for one, find that basing ones religious beliefs on the coolness factor of it is insincere and shallow, which I sadly find to be the tendency among not just a few of those who call themselves pagans.

I think a major force here is the increasing atheistic community online - for people who don't really take the idea of God seriously, religion is and should be all a big joke, and jokes, as always, are evaluated by coolness.

[MrHayden]

(Original post by Einheri)
"Norse Paganism" wasn't a religion as such. Various Germanic peoples believed different things, worshiped different gods, had different rituals and the like depending on period, region, social class, and occupation. Chances are that the "religion" (I wouldn't use the term as it suggests some kind of orthodoxy of belief and practice, as well as prophets, saints, holy books, hierarchy, dogma, et cetera - it is, essentially, a word created to compare other beliefs to Judeo-Christian beliefs) of a slave living in 10th century Reykjavík was worlds apart from a king living in 6th century Uppsala.

If you're taking Snorra Edda as some kind of gospel then, well, stop. What you're seeing in Snorra Edda is 10/early11th century upperclass Icelandic-Norwegian belief and practices interpretted through the cultural and theological framework of a 13th century Christian. Hávamál, Völuspá, Vafþrúðnismál, the sögur and every other literary source that gives glimpses of pre-Christian beliefs have the same issues as Snorri Sturluson's writings.

You're also interpreting Norse beliefs through your own 21st century, Christian-influenced, uninformed (as we all are on "Norræn trú") and probably quite romanticising lens. Interesting that you prayed to Þórr . . . no? Being a heathen/heiðinn/Odinist/Ásatrúarmaður/whatever is fine, but if your answer to 95% of theological/mythological/practical questions thrown at you regarding heathenry is anything but "we don't know" then you're probably bordering on newage/fluffybunny/Wiccan/syncretic/UPC/making-stuff-upism.

Whilst the original Norse Paganism certainly wasn't one unified religious group, the modern version to which an increasing number of people (not including myself) belong certainly is. Whilst they don't have a specific dogma, they do all follow the religion in pretty much the same way. When I say "prayed", I certainly didn't mean it in any modern (or even serious) context! I am well aware that "Thor please be nice to me" is exactly not how it would have ever operated. I do not believe in any higher powers whatsoever, I just have a bit of a soft spot for this one.

I definitely don't consider Snorri's writing as any kind of gospel - I must admit to not actually having read them yet... But yes I certainly did romanticize my description, as my feelings about the matter in the context of the discussion I was hoping to create are of the romantic nature, as opposed to the sensible and objective approach that I'd employ if I were actually conducting something historic and more important than chatting on the internet.

[Hylean]

(Original post by MrHayden)
Whilst the original Norse Paganism certainly wasn't one unified religious group, the modern version to which an increasing number of people (not including myself) belong certainly is. Whilst they don't have a specific dogma, they do all follow the religion in pretty much the same way. When I say "prayed", I certainly didn't mean it in any modern (or even serious) context! I am well aware that "Thor please be nice to me" is exactly not how it would have ever operated. I do not believe in any higher powers whatsoever, I just have a bit of a soft spot for this one.

I definitely don't consider Snorri's writing as any kind of gospel - I must admit to not actually having read them yet... But yes I certainly did romanticize my description, as my feelings about the matter in the context of the discussion I was hoping to create are of the romantic nature, as opposed to the sensible and objective approach that I'd employ if I were actually conducting something historic and more important than chatting on the internet.

Then they should definitely admit that they are following a recreation of the Norse mythology. Hell, I've met people who worship Loki, and there's zero evidence for that, and state he's a fire-spirit. That particular theory was debunked almost a century ago and since then academics have stated that he is the embodiment of chaos, a mediator, a spider-god, a dwarf, a air-spirit, a water-spirit or a Trickster god adopted by the Norse from the Sami.

Whilst I have no doubt that they are in touch with something, I'm not sure how accurate it is to call it Norse paganism. It definitely needs "neo-" attached to it, at the very least.

[Darth Stewie]

Odin promised the end of the ice giants and Jesus promised the end of all wicked people.......................... .....I don't see any ice giants around.

[kopite493]

(Original post by MrHayden)
Over a millennium ago, in the midst of the dark, cold forests of North West Europe, the silence of evening each night was broken by the echoing of song through trees, as the warm light of a Dark Age mead hall illuminated the village and its surrounding woodland. As the seasons changed outside, the myths of the Vikings were brought alive through the voice of the Scalds, with glittering gold adorning richly dressed kings and lords being distributed amongst warriors. With a mead horn in one hand the Scald would recite fantastic stories of bloodshed and bravery, glory and gore, telling tales of Thor, Loki and other mythical figures, as the men and women around the hall celebrated life itself with fighting, ****ing and feasting.

Soon, Christianity came to Northern Europe and this splendid religion of the old people of Scandinavia, Germany and England would be largely forgotten, although some traditions would survive to influence the subconscious of society. Over a thousand years later, in the Gothic Revival era of the Victorians, people began to remember this wonderful heritage which would swiftly work its way into the hearts of many of the population. Today, fourteen hundred years after St Augustine brought the first Catholic missionaries to the shores of England, Norse Paganism has become one of the fastest growing religions in the Western World!

As a somewhat sensationalist contrast to the rest of the rather dreary contents of this sub-forum, what do people think of this magnificent celebration of some of the first people of North West Europe? In many ways I find it is a little spoiled by the nationalist types who hijack it in order to push some Aryan agenda, but at the same time I can't help but feel engrossed in the magic of it. I even prayed to Thor a few weeks ago to keep his storms at bay as I was camping, and it seemed to work - as far as a predictable and coincidental shift in weather patterns constitutes a successful intervention of the thunder god, anyway...

I'm an aspiring medievalist, and so spend a lot of time studying this and have even been lucky enough to re-live some Viking evenings in a wonderfully reconstructed 8/9th Century village near Yorkshire. Do others share my rather obvious feelings about this brilliant religion? Is there anybody here at all who belongs to wondrous, 'ancient' belief system?

Note: I am NOT a Pagan and I don't believe in any of this stuff. I just think it's brilliant.

i love ancient greece and follow the old ancient greek gods more as a hobby than actual belief

for example while most would say oh my god

i say by zues etc

[MrHayden]

(Original post by Hylean)
Then they should definitely admit that they are following a recreation of the Norse mythology. Hell, I've met people who worship Loki, and there's zero evidence for that, and state he's a fire-spirit. That particular theory was debunked almost a century ago and since then academics have stated that he is the embodiment of chaos, a mediator, a spider-god, a dwarf, a air-spirit, a water-spirit or a Trickster god adopted by the Norse from the Sami.

Whilst I have no doubt that they are in touch with something, I'm not sure how accurate it is to call it Norse paganism. It definitely needs "neo-" attached to it, at the very least.

I agree, much of the belief is rather clueless. Many people I've met follow the religion simply because they think it's cool or because it didn't in its original form have a systematic dogma, with no real consideration of whether any of it was actually true. Lots of them call it Asatru, and I don't even know where that came from. A "neo" is a very good idea.

[Id and Ego seek]

(Original post by Darth Stewie)
Odin promised the end of the ice giants and Jesus promised the end of all wicked people.......................... .....I don't see any ice giants around.

Spoiler:

Show

<3

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Lilio Candidior)
Since my childhood in Sweden I have always associated the pagan myths with nursery rhymes and childrens books, that's pretty much the way I heard of them as a child. That's why I find it pretty funny when people talk about them all serious-like.

I hope you appreciate the irony there.

[Lilio Candidior]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
I hope you appreciate the irony there.

It's not as funny as when Tor dresses up as Freja for a fake-marriage with a jotun, that's for sure.

[MrHayden]

(Original post by Lilio Candidior)
It's not as funny as when Tor dresses up as Freja for a fake-marriage with a jotun, that's for sure.

I might be telling that tale at a reenactment this weekend. I've been asked to do a Viking story telling session for kids!

[Charzhino]

Theres only One God and I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that.