Benefit claimants and children.........?
Discuss issues that have a social and cultural impact, including but not limited to issues such as racism, teenage pregnancies, the social impact of religion, and the state of the education system.
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?It's not a 'no more babies for benefits claimants' policy, what it would be would be a maximum claim number of 2/3 children per family, and i think it would be only fair to have an exception policy for people who lose jobs, or become ill.(Original post by Carecup)
I love to know how you police a no more babies policy for benefit claimants. Also what happens if someone with 3-4 kids loses their job and goes onto benefits? Do they not get the full amount because of the amount of kids they have? -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?No you're not. Children costs money. People on benefits don''t have money. Therefore, the state should not be paying for additional children. That's all it means. If you have 10 children, the state will pay however if you have 1 more whilst on benefits then they won't until you get out of benefits. And if you're back on benefits and now have 11 children the again all 11 will be payed for but if you have 1 more whilst on benefits then they won't.(Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
Geez no you can't put a cap on how many children somebody can have. That's a total breach of human rights.
You're making the very derogatory assumption that people on benefits will ALWAYS be on benefits - whilst that may be true for some people, that's not the mindset of everybody who is on benefits you know. Some people genuinely use benefits temporarily and then go on to find a job. Not everybody stays on benefits for life.
This is excluding those who are permanently on benefits. -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?They get the full amount however if they have any children whilst on benefits that child isn't covered. You can still have children after you're back to work. I don't see how this is unfair or anything.(Original post by Carecup)
I love to know how you police a no more babies policy for benefit claimants. Also what happens if someone with 3-4 kids loses their job and goes onto benefits? Do they not get the full amount because of the amount of kids they have? -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?That's lovely, in theory, but in practice if people DO have children whilst on benefits, how are they going to afford to feed and clothe them?(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
No you're not. Children costs money. People on benefits don''t have money. Therefore, the state should not be paying for additional children. That's all it means. If you have 10 children, the state will pay however if you have 1 more whilst on benefits then they won't until you get out of benefits. And if you're back on benefits and now have 11 children the again all 11 will be payed for but if you have 1 more whilst on benefits then they won't.
This is excluding those who are permanently on benefits.
Yes it would be their own stupid fault for having more children whilst on benefits, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, and it would be the children that would suffer for it.
You can't allow the additional children to suffer for the sake of their parents stupidity - it's not the kids fault. -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?You can't also provide incentives for people to have more children which costs tax payers more money. This way, people will be more careful. Heck, the government can inform people about having a IUD to make sure no mistakes happen and it's reversible when they get back to work. Cutting the benefits of 1 extra child won't do great damage. You can easily still afford everything to feed/clothe/shelter him. It just means you can't buy extravagant things.(Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
That's lovely, in theory, but in practice if people DO have children whilst on benefits, how are they going to afford to feed and clothe them?
Yes it would be their own stupid fault for having more children whilst on benefits, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, and it would be the children that would suffer for it.
You can't allow the additional children to suffer for the sake of their parents stupidity - it's not the kids fault. -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?I can see the daily mail headlines already: 'Benefit mum's accidental pregnancy: government basically told us abort or starve!'.
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?Wow, I didn't know you were on benefits and had at least 2 children. I'm assuming this is the case as you seem to know an awful lot about what people can afford to buy when on benefits. My parents wouldn't have been able to afford uniform for my brother if his child benefit had been cut...(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
You can't also provide incentives for people to have more children which costs tax payers more money. This way, people will be more careful. Heck, the government can inform people about having a IUD to make sure no mistakes happen and it's reversible when they get back to work. Cutting the benefits of 1 extra child won't do great damage. You can easily still afford everything to feed/clothe/shelter him. It just means you can't buy extravagant things. -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?Jesus Christ. That chap just lost several of his children to arson and this is the story you take from it?(Original post by newts2k)
yeh, maybe, or just refuse further benefit after 2 children. Im just thinking about that guy who had 15 children, some of whom died in the fire and he was unemployed. He got something like 50k in benefits a year, that is unbelievable -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?Wow, I didn't know you had to be on benefits personally to understand the benefits system. My parents where on benefits and had about 3 children and we still lived pretty well plus I used to shop at a lot of cheap shops so I know pricing of a lot of items.(Original post by minimarshmallow)
Wow, I didn't know you were on benefits and had at least 2 children. I'm assuming this is the case as you seem to know an awful lot about what people can afford to buy when on benefits. My parents wouldn't have been able to afford uniform for my brother if his child benefit had been cut...
Give me a case study (has to include salary, what band the house is [council tax], number of children) and I'll show you how you'll be able to afford it.
Also, where did I suggest you get rid of Child benefits? I stated no child benefits for the extra child who you had whilst on benefits. -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?And what about stupid people who have multiple extra children whilst on benefits? One extra child - they might be able to cope sure....but multiple extra children? You're gonna get some damned hungry kids! You have to take into consideration abject stupidity here. There are a lot of stupid people in this world. Why should the kids suffer for their parents stupidity?(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
You can't also provide incentives for people to have more children which costs tax payers more money. This way, people will be more careful. Heck, the government can inform people about having a IUD to make sure no mistakes happen and it's reversible when they get back to work. Cutting the benefits of 1 extra child won't do great damage. You can easily still afford everything to feed/clothe/shelter him. It just means you can't buy extravagant things.
Alternatively, what about a couple who have 2 children and then accidentally get pregnant with triplets? Unlikely perhaps but not a completely impossible thing to happen. They do not believe in abortion - goes entirely against their religion and morals....so then what? Three extra children to look after and no financial way of being able to do it?
Better yet, a couple who only have 1 child, and wish to have another. Not a huge problem - they can be funded for up to 2 children (a tad irresponsible perhaps to have any at all deliberately whilst on benefits, but that's another story) - but then find out to their shock and amazement that they are pregnant with quads!
It's not as black and white as you think it is.Last edited by PinkMobilePhone; 24-05-2012 at 12:25. -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?Well you convinced me with the second example.(Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
And what about stupid people who have multiple extra children whilst on benefits? One extra child - they might be able to cope sure....but multiple extra children? You're gonna get some damned hungry kids! You have to take into consideration abject stupidity here. There are a lot of stupid people in this world. Why should the kids suffer for their parents stupidity?
Alternatively, what about a couple who have 2 children and then accidentally get pregnant with triplets? Unlikely perhaps but not a completely impossible thing to happen. They do not believe in abortion - goes entirely against their religion and morals....so then what? Three extra children to look after and no financial way of being able to do it?
Better yet, a couple who only have 1 child, and wish to have another. Not a huge problem - they can be funded for up to 2 children (a tad irresponsible perhaps to have any at all deliberately whilst on benefits, but that's another story) - but then find out to their shock and amazement that they are pregnant with quads!
It's not as black and white as you think it is. -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?Sarcasm isn't your finest point, but regardless you can't say that these are impossible situations. Rare sure, but if they did happen would would the government do in these instances?(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Well you convinced me with the second example.
The first example is the most likely, and I wouldn't put it past some daft people to carry on breeding like rabbits despite being faced with the prospect of not being able to financially look after their kids. -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?Nah, I'm being serious. Did some googling and it seems some religious people have a problem with IUD's so that won't solve the problem and was going to suggest the children get put in state care if they can't afford to raise them and reject IUDs but I realized it'll probably cost the state more to put the child in state care and it will probably be worse for the child.(Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
Sarcasm isn't your finest point, but regardless you can't say that these are impossible situations. Rare sure, but if they did happen would would the government do in these instances?
The first example is the most likely, and I wouldn't put it past some daft people to carry on breeding like rabbits despite being faced with the prospect of not being able to financially look after their kids. -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?Remind to +ve rep you, won't let me at the moment x(Original post by madders94)
My parents had us before it became apparent that my dad will never be able to work and he needs my mom as his full-time carer. What are they supposed to do; choose one of us to give away? And as for a token system; way to make genuine claimants feel even more like social outcasts.
And as for being brought up to be work-shy, I, my siblings and most other children of benefit claimants are more determined to work than usual, because I would never, ever want to be out of work and on benefits. The worst part is the stigma, which needs to be stopped right away - not everyone on benefits is a scrounger. -
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Re: Benefit claimants and children.........?I was just wondering how much you actually knew about budgeting finances when relying on benefits for most of your income. My brother was very clumsy due to developmental dyspraxia and often they'd have to get my nan to buy him extra uniform and stuff because it kept getting ripped and stained and they couldn't afford to buy him more.(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Wow, I didn't know you had to be on benefits personally to understand the benefits system. My parents where on benefits and had about 3 children and we still lived pretty well plus I used to shop at a lot of cheap shops so I know pricing of a lot of items.
Give me a case study (has to include salary, what band the house is [council tax], number of children) and I'll show you how you'll be able to afford it.
Also, where did I suggest you get rid of Child benefits? I stated no child benefits for the extra child who you had whilst on benefits.
I didn't say you suggested cutting it altogether, I'm saying that his child benefit may have been cut because my dad lost his job just before my mum found out she was pregnant, so in your rules they would have had him while on benefits had my dad not been able to find more work quickly (his dad, my granddad found him some part time work at the company he worked at and it turned to full time because he was so good at it).
Most people I know know very little about their parent's finances. At the time I used to think my parents could afford my brothers uniform, but my mum later told me that even with his child benefit and child tax credits they still had to get my nan to buy it for them.
My complaint is that you said 'you can still easily afford everything' even if the benefits of one child was cut, but at least in my parent's experience - which I asked my mum about when I was really stressed about money and she told me that I could always ask my nan - that wouldn't have been the case.
