Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?
Discuss religious, spiritual, and theological issues concerning Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion.
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?I think it's quite easy to tell if something is inciting anger within a large group of Muslims around the world.(Original post by snozzle)
How do you tell what speech content is going to 'incite anger'?
You can't.
You are trying to say that just because someone is angry that something was said, it gives them a right to stop it being said. That is patently absurd, and could be used to shutdown any speech. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?In response to the op, i wouldn't get angry, but i hate ignorance in general.
A couple years back the teachers were giving a speech in my college about terrorism, and then claimed 'The muslims in this room are more likely to be terrorists, compared to the people of other ethnic backgrounds'. Stereotyping towards any type of person is wrong imo. Oh well, lifes a b%tch. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?As long as it isn't a physical sort of abuse for it, then I prefer not to get involved purely because people are entitled to opinion and religion is my personal belief if that makes sense?
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?How though?(Original post by HeavyTeddy)
I think it's quite easy to tell if something is inciting anger within a large group of Muslims around the world. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?Youre absolutely right but I was talking specifically regarding Islam and not all religions-my bad.(Original post by KimKallstrom)
Rewind.
Are you actually suggesting that the only reason to criticise a religion is ignorance? That there is nothing at all that's not good with any religions at all?
That the only reason anybody would ever be able to see something to criticise in any religion, no matter what religion, is that they do not know that religion well enough?
Let's leave that one hanging in the air, shall we? -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?Thanks for reinforcing my point. So thousands of Muslims is less than 1% of the Muslim population..(Original post by Goku101)
that 1% is almost 2 million people. (1800000/160000000)*100 =around 1%
2 million is a very large number..... -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?You don't have a right not to be offended or angry, this is ridiculous. Society allows you to practice religion and this is a gift. The idea that a social group should have any kind of right that supersede that of the individual is illiberal and absurd. If Muslims living in the west do not liberalise their actions (not their beliefs) then they will be the ones responsible for a return to ultra-nationalism. I definitely do not condone ultra-nationalism, but the truth is the actions of a fair amount of Muslims are upsetting a lot of people. Idiots such as the EDL will only increase throughout Europe and the situation will get MUCH worse unless the 'Muslim community' grows up and realises their religion takes precedence over nothing at all.(Original post by HeavyTeddy)
I think it's quite easy to tell if something is inciting anger within a large group of Muslims around the world. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?You are sadly misinformed... Very sadly misinformed indeed. I am presuming you have never looked inside an english translation of the Qur'an or even taken the time to listen/reflect upon some of the stuff it says. If you had, you wouldn't have said something as ridiculous as you just did. May i remind you that the Qur'an stated that the planets are moving away from each other 1400 years ago, when we only recently discovered, using the Geodesic equation (ds*2 = 0 = -c*2dt*2 + a*2dr*2/1-kr*2), that the planets are indeed moving apart. Was it not the Qur'an that said 'When the Heaven shall be cleft asunder, and become rose red, like stained leather.' which is referring to The Rosette Nebula which was again only discovered recently...? I guess it would seem that the Qur'an, then, has considerably more 'greatness' as you put it, than freedom of expression which hasn't succeeded in doing much other than cause havoc...(Original post by joemonaghan)
One thing is for sure freedom of expression is a greater idea than anything ever written in the Qur'an. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?Isn't it incredible that the Qur'an, with ambiguous half-sentences, can tell us what the best scientists in history have spent hundreds of years trying to work out?(Original post by lebron_23)
You are sadly misinformed... Very sadly misinformed indeed. I am presuming you have never looked inside an english translation of the Qur'an or even taken the time to listen/reflect upon some of the stuff it says. If you had, you wouldn't have said something as ridiculous as you just did. May i remind you that the Qur'an stated that the planets are moving away from each other 1400 years ago, when we only recently discovered, using the Geodesic equation (ds*2 = 0 = -c*2dt*2 + a*2dr*2/1-kr*2), that the planets are indeed moving apart. Was it not the Qur'an that said 'When the Heaven shall be cleft asunder, and become rose red, like stained leather.' which is referring to The Rosette Nebula which was again only discovered recently...? I guess it would seem that the Qur'an, then, has considerably more 'greatness' as you put it, than freedom of expression which hasn't succeeded in doing much other than cause havoc...
lol Jokes. Come off it. You're just looking at ambiguous nothingness and prescribing it the meaning you want to after the scientists did their thing.
One day scientists will work out a cure for AIDS. Then you lot will find some ambiguous half-sentence in the Qur'an that can vaguely resemble it in some abstract way, call it a miracle and then call is "Islamiphobic" or kaffir if we call you out on it. As always.
If the Qur'an was "revealing" these scientific truths, then how come nobody ever knew about until after scientists proved it?
Honestly you may as well swap it for something Dr Zuess wrote and you can do the same thing. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?The Qu'ran puts Nostradamus to shame for its ambiguity and vagueness...(Original post by lebron_23)
You are sadly misinformed... Very sadly misinformed indeed. I am presuming you have never looked inside an english translation of the Qur'an or even taken the time to listen/reflect upon some of the stuff it says. If you had, you wouldn't have said something as ridiculous as you just did. May i remind you that the Qur'an stated that the planets are moving away from each other 1400 years ago, when we only recently discovered, using the Geodesic equation (ds*2 = 0 = -c*2dt*2 + a*2dr*2/1-kr*2), that the planets are indeed moving apart. Was it not the Qur'an that said 'When the Heaven shall be cleft asunder, and become rose red, like stained leather.' which is referring to The Rosette Nebula which was again only discovered recently...? I guess it would seem that the Qur'an, then, has considerably more 'greatness' as you put it, than freedom of expression which hasn't succeeded in doing much other than cause havoc... -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?(Original post by Perseveranze)
I'm sure you have did a well analyzed study of the Qur'an
But, there's a difference between your "criticisms" and then pure insults, which revolve around pointlessly drawing highly offensive images of a religious figure.
It's not freedom of speech, but rather the abuse of it.
Sorry, but as someone who comes from a Muslim family, went to madrassa for over 10 years and currently speciallising in Islamic History, I don't really buy these arguments.
First, we can't silence people simply by saying 'oh you cant read Arabic, so therefore you have no right to analyse it'. Many historical sources are translations. Much of western philosophy has only managed to gain clout because students have taken comfort in its translations from French, Arabic, German etc, to make their own analyses of what is the general outline. Of course there are problems with translations, hence why any scholar should study several, HOWEVER, to simply dismiss ideas because of some linguistic discrepancies basically only makes Muslim problems worse than if they engaged with their critics.
SECOND, the purpose of freedom of speech is to challenge conventions, meaning the 'accepted orthodoxy'. For those that believe in liberty, this also means the liberty of conscience, and the liberty to express opinions on things deemed as sacred cows. Just as I believe in the right to criticise the monarchy, or political states, it should also extend to religious matters, such as the duty of God. The reality is that such protests don't help the Muslim cause, in fact its made them even worse, its made depicitions and images of the prophet by non-Muslims even worse. You might say you dont care about that, but there is quranic wisdom in terms to being patient and accepting, as well as knowing how to choose your battles. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?When the Heaven shall be cleft asunder, and become rose red, like stained leather.'(Original post by lebron_23)
You are sadly misinformed... Very sadly misinformed indeed. I am presuming you have never looked inside an english translation of the Qur'an or even taken the time to listen/reflect upon some of the stuff it says. If you had, you wouldn't have said something as ridiculous as you just did. May i remind you that the Qur'an stated that the planets are moving away from each other 1400 years ago, when we only recently discovered, using the Geodesic equation (ds*2 = 0 = -c*2dt*2 + a*2dr*2/1-kr*2), that the planets are indeed moving apart. Was it not the Qur'an that said 'When the Heaven shall be cleft asunder, and become rose red, like stained leather.' which is referring to The Rosette Nebula which was again only discovered recently...? I guess it would seem that the Qur'an, then, has considerably more 'greatness' as you put it, than freedom of expression which hasn't succeeded in doing much other than cause havoc...
Actually thats a really interesting quotation. Such ideas are actually present in the works of St.Augustine, as well as various greek classicists (possibly Virgil)- which i think points much more to its ambiguity. After all, a bit of research has led me to the quotation referring to the 'splitting of heaven' but that itself is quite a complex idea that assumes a singularity of heaven, a physical presence that challenges some of its metaphysical attachments. As such, I wouldnt argue that this particular finding is enough to prove such a thesis, or indeed to qualify the interpretation. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?true, much of it comes from misunderstanding- which is why open dialogue between muslims and non muslims is necessary. That also means not silencing non-muslims who want to talk about Islam but can't read Arabic, and it also means that Muslims need to engage in the public sphere- something that many islamist groups like Hizb are reluctant to do.(Original post by lebron_23)
It truly is unbelievable how much hatred there is out there for Islam... -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?The majority of muslims are degrading Islam.Its not the religion-its the followers who are NOT living up to its teachings. Look into islam, try to learn about what it says and commands-its sayings are not even close to what happens,unfortunately, in many muslim nations today.It asks for peace and modesty, hospitality and love, abstainance from hatred, gossip, jealousy,backbiting, and whatever else may have the potential to hurt the very fabric of society. We muslims(or atleast most of us)are truly not living by these rules, but I plead everyone to not judge the religion by its misguided followers.
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?(Original post by joemonaghan)
To a previous poster I am not ignorant about religion, I've read the Qur'an sadly only in English as well as the Bible. I was raised in a Catholic school and should have every reason to be a religious person. However, I was lucky enough to live in a country where we are free enough to question things without fear of reprise. Questioning these books in the light of modern knowledge clearly shows they are both false in their metaphysical claims as well as being highly immoral compared to modern standards.
Questioning these books in light of modern knowledge to show they are false in their metaphysical claims? interesting... Prove it. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?Hizb ut- tahrir have been denounced by pretty much every Sunni muslim group as fanatics and are banned from a lot of Mosques. Their leader was exposed as a 'Fake Shaykh' who claimed to have studied at a lot of islamic institutes when he hadn't. The problem is, everyday non-muslims won't here about this because they're not the ones who go to the mosques or read the flyers or posters that are there simply because they're not interested or don't care. 'All muslims are the same' apparently.(Original post by Phantom_X)
true, much of it comes from misunderstanding- which is why open dialogue between muslims and non muslims is necessary. That also means not silencing non-muslims who want to talk about Islam but can't read Arabic, and it also means that Muslims need to engage in the public sphere- something that many islamist groups like Hizb are reluctant to do. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?I used Hizb as an example-and for the record, while the Mosques don't particularly like them, as individuals, many are still prominent figures within them. Further, their internet presence on chatrooms etc, have given them quite a high youth support base- and considering that these youth are the next generation of Muslims, it is disturbing to think that they are motivated by an ideology that isn't particularly theologically rooted, based on its own political framework, and ignores the social problems that it exploits.(Original post by hanhansolo)
Hizb ut- tahrir have been denounced by pretty much every Sunni muslim group as fanatics and are banned from a lot of Mosques. Their leader was exposed as a 'Fake Shaykh' who claimed to have studied at a lot of islamic institutes when he hadn't. The problem is, everyday non-muslims won't here about this because they're not the ones who go to the mosques or read the flyers or posters that are there simply because they're not interested or don't care. 'All muslims are the same' apparently.
No intelligent person will say 'all Muslims are the same'- the question of this thread is directed at 'Muslims' which i am taking to incorporate a plurality. The problem is, when these street movements like Hizb, or like the Tabligh (sp?) Jamaat are picking up young people because Mosques refuse to engage with their questions, then there are serious problems, which ironically, lots of Muslims are happy to ignore. Furthermore, as long as Mosques do not attempt to engage with modern issues, which include issues about sexuality, religion and society, as well as more ingrained philosophical issues, it simultaneously chooses to surrender itself unto 'fake sheikhs'. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?I think the point here, is that holy books, whether they be the Qu'ran or the Bible, are ambiguous in their prophecies, meaning that depending on ones interpretation, they are also able to derive particular claims within it. Science is actually quite similar, and I agree that if one understands the history of science, they will find a somewhat cultish presence that advocate it almost as a new religion. Point here, it that arbitrarily proving 'truths' and 'fallacies' using ambiguous text, or even by controlled experimentation, will never reach absolutes.(Original post by hanhansolo)
Questioning these books in light of modern knowledge to show they are false in their metaphysical claims? interesting... Prove it. -
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Re: Moderate Muslims: Would you get angry if someone insulted Islam?Ok if you want some unambiguous prophecies then prepare yourself for the following:(Original post by Phantom_X)
I think the point here, is that holy books, whether they be the Qu'ran or the Bible, are ambiguous in their prophecies, meaning that depending on ones interpretation, they are also able to derive particular claims within it. Science is actually quite similar, and I agree that if one understands the history of science, they will find a somewhat cultish presence that advocate it almost as a new religion. Point here, it that arbitrarily proving 'truths' and 'fallacies' using ambiguous text, or even by controlled experimentation, will never reach absolutes.
Quran 30:2-4- “The Romans have been defeated - in a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious within three to nine years. With God is the Decision, in the past and in the future: on that Day shall the believers rejoice with the help of God. He helps whom He will, and He is the Mighty, the Most-Merciful.”
622 AD the Romans were defeated by the Persians
Then the aforementioned verse was revealed
then in 627 AD the Romans triumphed over the Persians - which at the time was unthinkable.
Quran 10:90 - 92- “We delivered the Children of Israel across the sea. Pharaoh and his troops pursued them, aggressively and sinfully. When drowning became a reality for him, he said, “I believe there is no god except in the One whom the Children of Israel have believed; I am a submitter. (Then his Lord replied) Too late! For you have rebelled already, and chose to be a transgressor. Today, we will preserve your body, to set you up as a miracle for future generations. Verily, many among mankind are heedless of our signs.”
Here the Qur'an talks about the Pharaoh and how whilst he was drowning God, or Allah (if you will) said to him that it was too late after all his atrocious sins for him to suddenly accept the God of Moses, and that God would preserve him in his body as a sign for people of the future to believe.
Guess what was found in 1898? The body of the Pharaoh mentioned in the Quran... preserved in a way that could only be described as a miracle. This body can be seen today in Cairo, and so the Qur'anic verse has been fulfilled... the body has been found and is a sign for people! Anyone can go and see it!
The event mentioned occurred 1600 years before the Prophet Muhammad PBUH, and the body was found approx. 2500 years after him. Truly a miracle and a prophecy that has been fulfilled!
The image of the body: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eM_00TkXKx...araoh_body.jpg
