[Rascacielos]

(Original post by ATCAdam)

For purposes of triage not sure you'd trust someone having done 3 first aid courses... because a) Stress affects people and first aid training under pressure may not be applied as stringently as say someone with a clear rational mind in training. b) A paramedic operating with professionalism and calm level headedness may be able to make a better assessment do you not think?

You're missing the point. Checking whether someone's breathing takes no skill - the operator will instruct you how to do it. Obviously they're not going to ask you to climb into a screwed up car to check but within reason they will ask you to have a go. There are an infinite number of things you can do for an injured person without having an ounce of knowledge of first aid or medicine. It's often these things that are far more important than your paramedic who probably won't arrive for a good 10 minutes. Not only that, but if the paramedic arrives knowing what he or she has to deal with immediately, then that saves precious time too.

Alongside that, a fire engine isn't going to turn up at a crash scene straight away unless you can tell the operator that someone is stuck in there. Again you're saving precious time which could, and probably will, aid significantly in saving the person's life.

It amazes me the amount of people on this thread who think the only help required at a crash scene is medical, and even further that all medical help can only be carried out safely by a trained professional. I would never advocate a person off the street trying to start CPR, pull a person out of a car or do anything complicated. But in the quite probable event that someone is within reach, anybody can help contain a blood flow, check to see whether a person is breathing, keep a person who has gone into shock warm, reassure a casualty (an unconscious casualty might still be able to hear you because hearing is the last sense to go), etc.

[py0alb]

(Original post by Rascacielos)
You're missing the point. Checking whether someone's breathing takes no skill - the operator will instruct you how to do it. Obviously they're not going to ask you to climb into a screwed up car to check but within reason they will ask you to have a go. There are an infinite number of things you can do for an injured person without having an ounce of knowledge of first aid or medicine. It's often these things that are far more important than your paramedic who probably won't arrive for a good 10 minutes. Not only that, but if the paramedic arrives knowing what he or she has to deal with immediately, then that saves precious time too.

Alongside that, a fire engine isn't going to turn up at a crash scene straight away unless you can tell the operator that someone is stuck in there. Again you're saving precious time which could, and probably will, aid significantly in saving the person's life.

It amazes me the amount of people on this thread who think the only help required at a crash scene is medical, and even further that all medical help can only be carried out safely by a trained professional. I would never advocate a person off the street trying to start CPR, pull a person out of a car or do anything complicated. But in the quite probable event that someone is within reach, anybody can help contain a blood flow, check to see whether a person is breathing, keep a person who has gone into shock warm, reassure a casualty (an unconscious casualty might still be able to hear you because hearing is the last sense to go), etc.

Some people are just selfish and don't give a **** about other people. They know deep down that they're such sociopaths that they would happily just speed on past their own grandmother if she was bleeding to death* so they make up lame excuses about unlikely scenarios involving out-of-control HGVs and "not knowing what to do" to attempt to make their worthless behaviour sound acceptable and alleviate their cognitive dissonance.





*Well they might stop and see how much money was in her wallet.

[gbduo]

(Original post by py0alb)
Some people are just selfish and don't give a **** about other people. They know deep down that they're such sociopaths that they would happily just speed on past their own grandmother if she was bleeding to death* so they make up lame excuses about unlikely scenarios involving out-of-control HGVs and "not knowing what to do" to attempt to make their worthless behaviour sound acceptable and alleviate their cognitive dissonance.





*Well they might stop and see how much money was in her wallet.

Well said that man! +ve rep.

I'm impressed by the excuses though, some quality BS going on!

[SOTV]

nice!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rascacielos]

(Original post by py0alb)
Some people are just selfish and don't give a **** about other people. They know deep down that they're such sociopaths that they would happily just speed on past their own grandmother if she was bleeding to death* so they make up lame excuses about unlikely scenarios involving out-of-control HGVs and "not knowing what to do" to attempt to make their worthless behaviour sound acceptable and alleviate their cognitive dissonance.





*Well they might stop and see how much money was in her wallet.

Harshly put, but I can't help but agree with you.

[James']

(Original post by py0alb)
Some people are just selfish and don't give a **** about other people. They know deep down that they're such sociopaths that they would happily just speed on past their own grandmother if she was bleeding to death* so they make up lame excuses about unlikely scenarios involving out-of-control HGVs and "not knowing what to do" to attempt to make their worthless behaviour sound acceptable and alleviate their cognitive dissonance.

Yet again, poor assumptions based on no real derivative facts. A lot more people would stop for family, regardless of the risks, but in the case of a random, it's probably significantly less likely. Therefore, the grandmother comment is likely BS as are a few of your previous posts.

Unlikely scenarios? There have been thousands of incidents where vehicles have gone into the back of stationary traffic or collided with cars/debris from accident scenes - I'm just saying it's a possibility and there's no reason to subject yourself to that risk just to 'talk' to someone. If you can provide genuine assistance in a safe environment, by all means attempt to help out. If you think you're more of a hero by putting yourself in that position, that's great and I'm sure you'd get a lot of praise if you managed to help out. However, if by chance you ended up becoming another casualty, I don't think anyone would deem you to be useful in that situation, especially your family.

Don't get me wrong, I think people who are willing to put their life on the line to help others are brave ****ers, especially those who know the correct steps to take to potentially save lives. However, those who are just at an accident scene because it's the "moral" thing to do, probably don't add any value and can cause further complications when the 'professionals' get there.

Also, this was one of your BS posts I was referring to.

[DorianGrayism]

(Original post by Rascacielos)
You're missing the point. Checking whether someone's breathing takes no skill - the operator will instruct you how to do it. Obviously they're not going to ask you to climb into a screwed up car to check but within reason they will ask you to have a go. There are an infinite number of things you can do for an injured person without having an ounce of knowledge of first aid or medicine. It's often these things that are far more important than your paramedic who probably won't arrive for a good 10 minutes. Not only that, but if the paramedic arrives knowing what he or she has to deal with immediately, then that saves precious time too.

Alongside that, a fire engine isn't going to turn up at a crash scene straight away unless you can tell the operator that someone is stuck in there. Again you're saving precious time which could, and probably will, aid significantly in saving the person's life.

It amazes me the amount of people on this thread who think the only help required at a crash scene is medical, and even further that all medical help can only be carried out safely by a trained professional. I would never advocate a person off the street trying to start CPR, pull a person out of a car or do anything complicated. But in the quite probable event that someone is within reach, anybody can help contain a blood flow, check to see whether a person is breathing, keep a person who has gone into shock warm, reassure a casualty (an unconscious casualty might still be able to hear you because hearing is the last sense to go), etc.

I doubt the operator will tell you to perform checks when it is a wrecked car in the middle of a motorway.

Even if we assume that they do, you are not helping the paramedic because they are not going to listen to you and will re-perform the same checks again otherwise they will lose their job.

It amazes me the number of people that think they can help with no appropriate knowledge when they are more likely to cause another crash, get themselves killed or make the situation of the victim worse.

[Dr Good Manners]

(Original post by anthonyla65)
http://funvideo.idv.tw/national-free...-accident.html (In chinese, use a translator)

Happened in Taiwan, picked it out from the Radio on the video. Googled it and that link came up. But yeah the driver survived with only some Head Trauma Concussion. Suppose the crumple zones and air bags saved him. No chance if it happened in my cabrio smart car.

And those who say heartless people who didn't stop, I really doubt any of you would stop on a motorway if you saw a crash. Most ignore and drive on, I've seen many crashes on the motorway and 99.9% of the people just drive on. Besides in this occaison the lorry driver was present anyways, he would've probably flagged down a car if he didn't have a mobile to ring emergency services. Its also fairly dangerous to stop on the motorway even on hard shoulder, read the highway code.

And to OP, if that happened to you I doubt theres really a big difference between 60mph and 80mph => 27m/s vs 35m/s velocity. Modern cars have great safety features called crumple zones and airbags, just like how this driver survived. If not 60mph crash will leave you in a coma, 80mph crash will kill you and end your misery.

Thanks for that update. I assumed the driver went the same way as Nikki Catsouras so its good to know they didn't.

As the truck driver stopped and appeared to be giving some sort of assistance there and then, if not direct medical intervention, it does give a little weight to the argument of stopping and seeing if the casualty can be helped in anyway.

[Rascacielos]

(Original post by DorianGrayism)
I doubt the operator will tell you to perform checks when it is a wrecked car in the middle of a motorway.

Even if we assume that they do, you are not helping the paramedic because they are not going to listen to you and will re-perform the same checks again otherwise they will lose their job.

It amazes me the number of people that think they can help with no appropriate knowledge when they are more likely to cause another crash, get themselves killed or make the situation of the victim worse.

The operator doesn't know exactly what state the car or the victims are in, do they? And they're not going to know until you stop. Imagine if everyone had the same attitude as you and they just assumed that someone else was going to help. Blimey, the ambulance would never be called.

My Dad drives ambulances and yes, the paramedic rely a lot on what the public has said, obviously not in a diagnosis of what is wrong but in the surrounding circumstances of the accident. You should alsoknow that ambulances don't travel around fully equipped to deal with every situation. If the paramedic knows what he is dealing with before he leaves base and thus is able to collect the right equipment or if the operator knows that they need to call a particular ambulance because it has the correct equipment in it, then that also saves an infinite amount of time.

I have just explained exactly how a member of the public can help with no appropriate knowledge and I notice you haven't addressed those points at all.

[DorianGrayism]

(Original post by Rascacielos)
The operator doesn't know exactly what state the car or the victims are in, do they? And they're not going to know until you stop. Imagine if everyone had the same attitude as you and they just assumed that someone else was going to help. Blimey, the ambulance would never be called.

My Dad drives ambulances and yes, the paramedic rely a lot on what the public has said, obviously not in a diagnosis of what is wrong but in the surrounding circumstances of the accident. You should alsoknow that ambulances don't travel around fully equipped to deal with every situation. If the paramedic knows what he is dealing with before he leaves base and thus is able to collect the right equipment or if the operator knows that they need to call a particular ambulance because it has the correct equipment in it, then that also saves an infinite amount of time.

I have just explained exactly how a member of the public can help with no appropriate knowledge and I notice you haven't addressed those points at all.

Don't make things up.

I didn't say not to call the ambulance or not to tell the operator what is going with the surrounding circumstances. That is something that can be done by standing on the side of the road.

[BananaWhale]

(Original post by DorianGrayism)
I doubt the operator will tell you to perform checks when it is a wrecked car in the middle of a motorway.

They will first assess whether you are in danger first. If the traffic has come to a stand still or you have the opportunity (depending on the situation) to get to the accident without risking your own life, then they will ask you to do so. As knowing extra details about the accident will help.

(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Even if we assume that they do, you are not helping the paramedic because they are not going to listen to you and will re-perform the same checks again otherwise they will lose their job.

Yes they will perform the same checks, but if you do it first and tell the operator before the paramedics even get there, they they know what to expect and so can deal with the issue as efficiently as possible when they arrive by making sure they have the correct equipment.
For example, not all ambulances will carry a defibrillator, and if they know in advance that there is an unconscious casualty, then they will ensure that the ambulance has one on board.

(Original post by DorianGrayism)
It amazes me the number of people that think they can help with no appropriate knowledge when they are more likely to cause another crash, get themselves killed or make the situation of the victim worse.

A lot of people are qualified first aiders, and if not, most people at the very least know how to deal with a severe life threatening bleed. They could even reach through a smashed window and turn off the ignition to help prevent an explosion. Providing it's safe enough to get to the casualty (depending on the situation), then someone should always stop surely?

But I do agree with you in the part saying that they shouldn't get involved if they have the potential to cause another crash.

[Rascacielos]

(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Don't make things up.

I didn't say not to call the ambulance or not to tell the operator what is going with the surrounding circumstances. That is something that can be done by standing on the side of the road.

So you're capable of phoning an ambulance with detail about what has happened, without stopping?

Also, what exactly am I making up?

[ATCAdam]

(Original post by BananaWhale)
But I do agree with you in the part saying that they shouldn't get involved if they have the potential to cause another crash.

This. Pretty much sums up my stance on this whole situation.

[DorianGrayism]

(Original post by BananaWhale)
They will first assess whether you are in danger first. If the traffic has come to a stand still or you have the opportunity (depending on the situation) to get to the accident without risking your own life, then they will ask you to do so. As knowing extra details about the accident will help.

Sure. If traffic comes to a complete standstill.

(Original post by BananaWhale)
Yes they will perform the same checks, but if you do it first and tell the operator before the paramedics even get there, they they know what to expect and so can deal with the issue as efficiently as possible when they arrive by making sure they have the correct equipment.
For example, not all ambulances will carry a defibrillator, and if they know in advance that there is an unconscious casualty, then they will ensure that the ambulance has one on board.

Well, I don't think they are going to bring a defib on the basis of whether they are concious or not.. Especially in a situation like a severe car crash.

There are relatively few checks that you can perform and I doubt it has a serious implication upon the conduct of the paramedics, who will have a set response to different emergencies.

(Original post by BananaWhale)
A lot of people are qualified first aiders, and if not, most people at the very least know how to deal with a severe life threatening bleed. They could even reach through a smashed window and turn off the ignition to help prevent an explosion. Providing it's safe enough to get to the casualty (depending on the situation), then someone should always stop surely?

But I do agree with you in the part saying that they shouldn't get involved if they have the potential to cause another crash.

Maybe in the rare case where traffic comes to a standstill then it would be safe. People are complaining that no one stopped in the video and ran across the motorway to help the person even though there was still oncoming traffic.

[BananaWhale]

(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Maybe in the rare case where traffic comes to a standstill then it would be safe. People are complaining that no one stopped in the video and ran across the motorway to help the person even though there was still oncoming traffic.

Oh no I wasn't talking specifically about the video, just in general really, for example if it was a major crash and the road was blocked with debris.
And to your earlier point, it's not about making checks for the paramedics, it's about making your own checks to figure out what you can do to help before the emergency services take over.

But anyway, my two cents are:
If it's safe to help, then help.
If it's not safe, don't help. (Or perhaps at the least, pull over on the hard shoulder and call an ambulance from a distance.)

[ATCAdam]

(Original post by BananaWhale)
(Or perhaps at the least, pull over on the hard shoulder and call an ambulance from a distance.)

I think anyone would do that, unless they could already see there were emergency services on site already.

[Steevee]

Not sure where this was, but I can tell you for a fact that cars in China are awful quality, we're talking 2 star safety ratings as average, so that could have some impact on such crashes.