[ShredMaster]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Weee!

Nice selective quote. Says a lot.

[navarre]

(Original post by Martyn*)
Not when a huge proportion of the population is well misinformed and is living in complete denial and ignorance.

With respect, I was talking about reality, not another one of your inane, fictional conspiracy theories.

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Weee!

That means we hate them does it? Some common sense please, I don't think I need to give you a history lesson to disapprove any "hate" we have against Jews.

And to give you the context of that prophecy hadith, the Jews at that time would be the first one's to attack the Messiah and start a war, Muslims will only then fight to defend. Also, it won't just be the Jews, it will be various other faiths/beliefs by their side, ie. Atheists etc.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
That means we hate them does it? Some common sense please, I don't think I need to give you a history lesson to disapprove any "hate" we have against Jews.

And to give you the context of that prophecy hadith, the Jews at that time would be the first one's to attack the Messiah and start a war, Muslims will only then fight to defend. Also, it won't just be the Jews, it will be various other faiths/beliefs by their side, ie. Atheists etc.

So you won't hate them now, you'll just hate them in the future. Got it.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Weee!

That's the hadith I was referring to above that Hamas use, it's out of context.

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
So you won't hate them now, you'll just hate them in the future. Got it.

Yes, we will hate anyone who wants to kill us, very surprising stuff.

[Martyn*]

(Original post by navarre)
With respect, I was talking about reality, not another one of your inane, fictional conspiracy theories.

Reality is often stranger than fiction; a man of the world would readily concede this.

[prog2djent]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Yes, we will hate anyone who wants to kill us, very surprising stuff.

Weren't you talking about a danish cartoonist?

A gentle, harmless man?

[navarre]

(Original post by Martyn*)
Reality is often stranger than fiction; a man of the world would readily concede this.

But your constant insane conspiracy theories surely get boring after a while?

Haven't you taken the hint yet? No one believes most of the stuff you say. Quit while you're ahead, that's what I say.

[InspectorSophie]

Thought this was a very interesting article :

http://worldoreason.blogspot.co.uk/2...-semitism.html

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Yes, we will hate anyone who wants to kill us, very surprising stuff.

Of course. It's just that no one says Jews want to kill Muslims except Muslims themselves. This makes you anti-semitic.

[Dishoom-Dishoom]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
That means we hate them does it? Some common sense please, I don't think I need to give you a history lesson to disapprove any "hate" we have against Jews.

And to give you the context of that prophecy hadith, the Jews at that time would be the first one's to attack the Messiah and start a war, Muslims will only then fight to defend. Also, it won't just be the Jews, it will be various other faiths/beliefs by their side, ie. Atheists etc.

Are you talking about that thing it says in the koran about killing all jews wherever they hide behind trees, rocks and stuff - sounds pretty f-ed up tbh to write something like that

[Martyn*]

(Original post by navarre)
But your constant insane conspiracy theories surely get boring after a while?

Haven't you taken the hint yet? No one believes most of the stuff you say. Quit while you're ahead, that's what I say.

Anything can get boring. I get bored with having toast for my breakfast; but toast makes a good breakfast. In fact, you can go to your local supermarket or corner shop and buy some bread, pop it into the toaster and voila! You have toast!

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Of course. It's just that no one says Jews want to kill Muslims except Muslims themselves. This makes you anti-semitic.

No one has said this though, take note of your own verb. We're talking about Prophecies here, something we believe will happen in the future that is completely irrelevant to our times.

Christians, Jews and many religions have similar beliefs on how the "day of judgement" will happen. According to some Christians, Jesus will be going on some kind of global Jihad against "all his enemies", including Muslims, yet we have no problems with this, because we don't believe what they say, nor does this belief make them necessarily hate Muslims.

Similarly Muslims believe that everything will come to dust upon those who reject the existence of a Deity (Atheists basically). Should we now hate and kill all Atheists?

Absolutely not, our own Shariah laws forbid such things. You need to learn what context is and learn how to apply it.

As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. (Quran 60:8)

God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of [your] faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid [others] in driving you forth: and as for those [from among you] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers! (Quran 60:9)

The hadith is also talking about Jews of a certain time. Just like this Qur'an verse is;

Surah Baqara 2:62
"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."

(Original post by Dishoom-Dishoom)
Are you talking about that thing it says in the koran about killing all jews wherever they hide behind trees, rocks and stuff - sounds pretty f-ed up tbh to write something like that

What else does the "Koran" say?

[Dishoom-Dishoom]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
No one has said this though. We're talking about Prophecies here, something we believe will happen in the future that is completely irrelevant to our times.

Christians, Jews and many religions have similar beliefs on how the "day of judgement" will happen. According to some Christians, Jesus will be going on some kind of global Jihad against "all his enemies", including Muslims, yet we have no problems with this, because we don't believe what they say, nor does this belief make them necessarily hate Muslims.

Similarly Muslims believe that everything will come to dust upon those who reject the existence of a Deity (Atheists basically). Should we now hate and kill all Atheists?

Absolutely not, our own Shariah laws forbid such things. You need to learn what context is and learn how to apply it.

As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. (Quran 60:8)

God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of [your] faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid [others] in driving you forth: and as for those [from among you] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers! (Quran 60:9)

What else does the "Koran" say?

i dont know, i jsut remember seeing once it said that muslims were suppossed to clear the earth of jews. If you read the koran you will find it in there. not exactly an uplifting positive message eh?

[prog2djent]

Thanks to Inspectorsophie

"1. Hatred of the Jews as Christ Killers - A very old form of Anti-Semitism which has existed since the early days of the Christian Church. The Jews were blamed for choosing Jesus Christ to ‘die’ on the cross. The New Testament Gospels emphasize this point in their writings and it has served as dogma for both the Catholic and many non-Catholic churches over the centuries. Argument is illogical though, for if the Jews had not selected Christ to be sacrificed on the cross then he could not have died for the sins of mankind. Where would humanity then be?

2. Hatred of the Jews as Outsiders - The rejection of Jesus as the messiah, Jewish religious belief, Jewish emphasis on marrying fellow Jews, as well as the concept of the Jews as the Chosen People all smack of exclusivity.
Why?, asks the anti-Semite do the Jews think that they are better than us ? Could it be that they eventually want to subjugate us? Hence the blood libels, pogroms and the impetus to scapegoat the Jews as the cause for all that goes wrong in society.

3. The Jew as the Evil Capitalist - The Church authority forced Jews to be money lenders as Christians were prevented from charging interest. As money lending grew into the banking profession, Jews became more influential as players driving the wheels of the largely capitalist based economy. Those individuals jealous of Jewish success as well as the later opponents of capitalism were quick to throw force this charge.

4. The Jew as the Diabolical Communist - Karl Marx’s Jewish ancestry, Jewish influence in the Social Democracy Movements in Europe (Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Luxembourg, Martov were all Jews) was enough of a linkage in the minds of many anti-Semites to associate the ‘specter of Communism haunting Europe’ as a Jewish plot for world domination. Idea is non-sensical. Granted at one stage there were many Jews involved in the movements of social-democracy but that is largely as a result of the fact that Communism preached an ‘equality of all’ that other political ideologies appeared to shun. However after the true face of the of the leftist movements were revealed in the Stalinist purges, Jews starting deserting Marxism in droves. It is also important to note

5. Hatred of Jewish thought - Jewish thought has traditionally been more liberal and open to debate than that of Christianity. Jews have been on the fore front of new ideas (Marxism, Relativity, psychoanalysis, and American liberalism) which have shaken the bedrock of traditional views. A phenomenon that breeds fear and consequently anti-Semitism. Also Jewish success in business, the arts and the sciences has in the mind of many anti-Semites created a belief that the Jews are privy to knowledge which they are not willing to share. This of course is ridiculous as are all charges of an international Jewish conspiracy.

6. Anti-Zionist/Anti-Semitism - Not all anti-Zionists are anti-Semites. Agreed. However the line is in many cases very thin. Many Arab countries make little distinction (e.g. the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is required reading in many school programs). Also for those seeking a convenient cover for their anti-Semitic views where better to hide then amongst the so-called ‘progressive’ anti-Zionists.

7. Hatred of Jews for their role in Judeo-Christian philosophy - Western Philosophy and Judeo-Christian philosophy is evil. So this reason goes. Jews are to blame for all of it as the mother religion of the tradition. Therefore Jews are bad. Simplistic but nevertheless the view of those seeking to destroy the foundations of Western civilization. Stream of thought is popular amongst anarchists and some New Age Religious believers. Nazism was such a belief"

I think they are missing out the many of the far-right hate jews because of their ideas on the issue of the "international capitalism", i.e immigration = open competition - undermines natives.

[Mangoberg]

The so called Left media in this country are responsible for a hell of a lot of anti-Semitism. Israel's political decisions, and attacks on Palestine and their people are not always sanctioned by the wider Jewish community and not even by the liberal majority in Israel. But do the Guardian and New Statesman acknowledge this? Of course not. They are no different to the backwards state media in Muslim countries who attack all Britons over the decisions of our politicians. Shame on them for making my über-Liberal self ashamed to be a reader of those publications.


Mangoberg

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by Dishoom-Dishoom)
i dont know, i jsut remember seeing once it said that muslims were suppossed to clear the earth of jews. If you read the koran you will find it in there. not exactly an uplifting positive message eh?

Can you please send me the version of the "Koran" that you're reading? Hope it's not alot to ask.

[navarre]

(Original post by Martyn*)
Anything can get boring. I get bored with having toast for my breakfast; but toast makes a good breakfast. In fact, you can go to your local supermarket or corner shop and buy some bread, pop it into the toaster and voila! You have toast!

I'm sorry bout my previous post, just been a long day.

[Awwaaba]

(Original post by Dishoom-Dishoom)
Are you talking about that thing it says in the koran about killing all jews wherever they hide behind trees, rocks and stuff - sounds pretty f-ed up tbh to write something like that

There is nothing in the Quran that says this, it is a prophecy about a war that will come when the world is about to end and it is found in hadith not Quran.

On the other hand, there are several verses in the Talmud that teaches that Jews are superior to all others and that gentiles should be killed if they hit Jews. Yet for some reasons, all religions other than Judaism are accused of hatred of others, especially Jews.

I haven't met many Jews before but I'm sure that the majority are very decent people. On the other hand, I'm sick of Israel constantly playing victim and accusing others of anti-Semitism as some sort of blackmail for political purposes (even though they're spitting on the memories of those who died during the Holocaust in process).