Prisoners voting
Discuss issues related to the politics of the UK, such as the actions of any MP, any current or potential law, or any other factor affecting the British political system.
| Announcements | Posted on | |
|---|---|---|
| TSR launches Learn Together! - Our new subscription to help improve your learning | 16-05-2013 | |
-
View Poll Results: Should prisoners be allowed to vote?
Yes 93 32.63% No 192 67.37%
-
- Reputation:
- Benevolent Member
- Posts: 895
Re: Prisoners votingHow about you , fool(Original post by mmmpie)
The ruling is not that all prisoners must have the right to vote - it's that a blanket ban on all prisoners having the right to vote is not necessary or proportionate.
Self-determination and participation in government (through voting, in this context) are fundamental rights, and limiting people's fundamental rights is something which you only do with a good reason. Withdrawing the franchise as part of sentencing is fine, because there's reasoning there, but a blanket ban isn't because there is nobody considering whether or not it's an appropriate thing to do in that specific case.
I don't see what's so objectionable about this. It seems more like an excuse for people to bitch about the ECHR than an actual issue.
live with a rapist in your house! Lets see how your mother likes it!
-
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
- Location: Reading
- Posts: 3,947
Re: Prisoners votingwtf(Original post by The Marshall)
How about you , fool live with a rapist in your house! Lets see how your mother likes it!
-
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
- Location: Reading
- Posts: 3,947
Re: Prisoners votingBeing on the receiving end of my mother's wrath would probably count as cruel and unusual punishment, tbh.(Original post by Id and Ego seek)
He's got a point.
You would not love it if... a rapist lives in your house... because they will upset your mother.
...
Why?(Original post by The Marshall)
If you want to vote for prisionors having rights, then please, have these criminals live in your house! -
- Reputation:
- Exalted Member
- Posts: 354
Re: Prisoners votingAren't the mentally insane not allowed to vote? (Throws himself onto the better wisdom of his peers)(Original post by ANARCHY__)
Should stupid people be allowed to vote? Should poor people be allowed to vote?
I did some two-second Google research and the best I could find was this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/479892.stm -
- Reputation:
- Overlord in Training
- Posts: 2,530
Re: Prisoners votingOh I see. So you mean those chavs in town should actually be institutionalised and/or locked up because being stupid and being mentally ill is just exactly the same thing. Unless of course you're trying to say that stupid and poor people shouldn't be able to vote.(Original post by Carter78)
Aren't the mentally insane not allowed to vote? (Throws himself onto the better wisdom of his peers)
I did some two-second Google research and the best I could find was this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/479892.stm -
- Reputation:
- Exalted Member
- Posts: 354
Re: Prisoners votingYes that's *exactly* what I was saying(Original post by ANARCHY__)
Oh I see. So you mean those chavs in town should actually be institutionalised and/or locked up because being stupid and being mentally ill is just exactly the same thing. Unless of course you're trying to say that stupid and poor people shouldn't be able to vote.
I thought you were asking a legitimate question about whether "stupid people" should be allowed to vote. I took your use of "stupid" to mean mentally ill. Whereas I now see you were using it as an adjective, a derogatory one at that. My apologies for taking your contribution to this discussion seriously.
And nope, I double checked. I didn't refer to poor people either in my post.
Please try again. -
- Reputation:
- Overlord in Training
- Posts: 2,530
Re: Prisoners votingI'm not saying you did refer to poor people. I was the asking question generally and simply reiterated it.(Original post by Carter78)
Yes that's *exactly* what I was saying
I thought you were asking a legitimate question about whether "stupid people" should be allowed to vote. I took your use of "stupid" to mean mentally ill. Whereas I now see you were using it as an adjective, a derogatory one at that. My apologies for taking your contribution to this discussion seriously.
And nope, I double checked. I didn't refer to poor people either in my post.
Please try again.
If you misunderstood my question, I thought it was made fairly clear that there was an element of polemic but perhaps you didn't detect that. As a matter of fact, I was contributing to the discussion but unfortunately, you took my question in the wrong way. Now you understand what I was asking, perhaps you could answer me. -
- Reputation:
- Benevolent Member
- Posts: 895
Re: Prisoners votingDo you not get it you damn fool? If you allow prisionors the vote, the next thing they'll be doing is demand the right to be released into society!(Original post by mmmpie)
Being on the receiving end of my mother's wrath would probably count as cruel and unusual punishment, tbh.
Why? -
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
- Location: Reading
- Posts: 3,947
Re: Prisoners votingWhen a criminal has been rehabilitated they have every right to be released back into society. Don't be so uncivil.(Original post by The Marshall)
Do you not get it you damn fool? If you allow prisionors the vote, the next thing they'll be doing is demand the right to be released into society! -
- Reputation:
- Junior Member
- Posts: 34
Re: Prisoners votingVery sad to see so many on the alleged right wing supporting stripping this right away from prisoners. They are the one group that has had the most significant (in their lives) interaction with the state. To suggest they should have no power to manipulate the state which has become so involved in their lives is rather abhorrent tbh.
-
- Reputation:
- '... the Lady's not for turning....' RIP xxx
- Location: Leamington Spa/ Cheylesmore
- Posts: 8,697
Re: Prisoners votingStripping away the right? They have no right at the moment and neither should they have.(Original post by doodinthemood)
Very sad to see so many on the alleged right wing supporting stripping this right away from prisoners. They are the one group that has had the most significant (in their lives) interaction with the state. To suggest they should have no power to manipulate the state which has become so involved in their lives is rather abhorrent tbh. -
- Reputation:
- Junior Member
- Posts: 34
Re: Prisoners votingAt the moment, the right is stripped away. You are familiar with the idea of "rights by virtue of our humanity" that right wing ideologies often draw on yes?(Original post by meenu89)
Stripping away the right? They have no right at the moment and neither should they have.
It is the left that says the state provides us with rights, the right recognises that an individual has rights of self-determination until another body removes them. -
- Reputation:
- '... the Lady's not for turning....' RIP xxx
- Location: Leamington Spa/ Cheylesmore
- Posts: 8,697
Re: Prisoners votingThe right which they forfeited by committing a crime for which they have received a prison sentence.(Original post by doodinthemood)
At the moment, the right is stripped away. You are familiar with the idea of "rights by virtue of our humanity" that right wing ideologies often draw on yes?
It is the left that says the state provides us with rights, the right recognises that an individual has rights of self-determination until another body removes them.Last edited by meenu89; 24-05-2012 at 20:41. -
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
- Location: Stoke/Oxford
- Posts: 4,800
Re: Prisoners votingNo, because everyone is expected to reach the age of 18. Many people under the age of 18 are incapable of making a rational decision, although whether the limit is too high is another discussion. There is a specific reason for excluding them, unlike prisoners which just seems to stem from the hatred of anyone who is in prison.(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
Do you think it's undemocratic because people below the age of 18 cannot vote then? -
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
- Location: Reading
- Posts: 3,947
Re: Prisoners votingCriminals don't cease to be humans. The whole point of fundamental human rights is that they attach unconditionally to all humans.(Original post by meenu89)
The right which they forfeited by committing a crime for which they have received a prison sentence. -
- Reputation:
- Overlord in Training
- Location: London
- Posts: 3,289
Re: Prisoners votingSo we have anonymous unaccountable judges from those beacons of liberty Russia, Azerbaijan, Serbia, Turkey and Ukraine, telling us, a country that has done more to spread the cause of liberty and freedom than any other European nation, about 'human rights'.
-
- Reputation:
- Junior Member
- Posts: 34
Re: Prisoners votingIt is at this point we have to decide what the legitimate role of the state is in the prison system. Obviously some rights such as movement and association should be taken away in order to keep society safe.(Original post by meenu89)
The right which they forfeited by committing a crime for which received a prison sentence.
But what about the others?
Keep in mind that:
1) The person may be innocent and
2) The state may be punishing the prisoner under an unjust law
2 is, I think, very important with regards to voting rights. If, say, a racist society made being black illegal, then the state would be jailing people, and then removing those selfsame people's ability to voice their concern over an unjust law, thus perpetuating the discrimination. This is of course hypothetical but we have something very similar happening in the UK. Non-violent drug offenders make up the largest growth group in the prison population, up more than 250% over the last decade. These are people who have been seriously aggressed against by the state, and who you support silencing and prevented from correcting this travesty.
Big government is rarely the answer.
