[JC.]

Well, clearly you're talking about some kind of auction site or application that I've no knowledge of.
There's plenty of stuff out there and not even main dealers sign on to everything. For example, I couldn't tell you what's written on the first page of this months Glass as I don't subscribe.

No idea how to modify a Vcar entry - Nic says its to do with HPI checks and insurance claims. All totally irrelevent to us. There's no point doing an HPI check on something like a '69 Rover P6 is there?

Perhaps you're not completely full of it, but in the first instance you claimed you owned a forecourt and then you claim you are sales and procurement. So what are you? DP or sales?
Gut instinct says you're likely to work for a main dealer or know someone in the trade. Otherwise, why would you be running your own business and register on a student forum all of five minute ago?
Just seems a bit odd to me...
Noone selling modern stuff is going to be running down stock on a public forum. Particularly bread and butter stuff like KA's.

[Cringe]

id buy a polo/civic/ibiza/starlet/saxo/106 over a ka. just not worth it.

[aidans34]

(Original post by JC.)
Well, clearly you're talking about some kind of auction site or application that I've no knowledge of.
There's plenty of stuff out there and not even main dealers sign on to everything. For example, I couldn't tell you what's written on the first page of this months Glass as I don't subscribe.

No idea how to modify a Vcar entry - Nic says its to do with HPI checks and insurance claims. All totally irrelevent to us. There's no point doing an HPI check on something like a '69 Rover P6 is there?

Perhaps you're not completely full of it, but in the first instance you claimed you owned a forecourt and then you claim you are sales and procurement. So what are you? DP or sales?
Gut instinct says you're likely to work for a main dealer or know someone in the trade. Otherwise, why would you be running your own business and register on a student forum all of five minute ago?
Just seems a bit odd to me...
Noone selling modern stuff is going to be running down stock on a public forum. Particularly bread and butter stuff like KA's.

I'm not being funny but maybe you shouldn't call out people you don't know because it ends up making you have to back down. I've not come and pretended that I know all about the engine mechanics of MG's or the like because I don't, and you obviously do so I'll listen to your opinion. On the same vain if you were into modern procurement those sites are important because they are trade only access to a lot of main dealer stock. Likewise in my line of work understanding the vehicle conditional alert register is important.

I'm not going to pretend I own some massive enterprise, but me and a mate do own a premises from which we sell cars (although we've only been open a short while we used to driveway trade so i;ve seen from both sides), and do some mechanical work (which I don't do personally). I therefore mainly end up doing sales and procurement purely because that is where the workload falls. I am still a student, until June so it makes enough sense for me to be on this forum.

Maybe I have a corsa for sale? Or maybe I just have an interest in cars and like discussing them. I wasn't planning on saying anything about myself but since you called me out I had to. I personally am very critical of the KA as a first car as I don't hear good things about them and I don't like them whenever I've been in them plus they don't do well against the competition. I'm still at a loss as to why so many people like them as I really don't see it, but lets try to be adult about this

[aidans34]

(Original post by gbduo)
Hell no, I have a S2000, I am in the 5 second club with that and I also have a XJ8 for the motorway cruise. I don't need to worry about a Ford KA! LOL.

However, my first car was Nova 1.3SR and it was awesome, absolutely bugger all power, but a reliable, honest engine with no electronic gimmicks or injection. The Ford KA as a modern car is about as close as you can get to that and its just a simple honest joe small car that is absolutely classless. I think they are great cars. That is not to say I would own one, but I have driven one and thought they were OK. They are no inspiration on what a car should be like but they are mega practical, economical and an honest car.

The Corsa is similar to that of course as it is the direct competition.

To be honest, I just found your statement about them being unreliable laughable given the numbers in which they sold and the amount still on the road.

I do like the S2000, thing is with the KA I can't find any reason to like it, it just seems awful to me from all angles with no saving graces other than initial purchase price (which I think is what really managed to make it a success, which i don't deny). I just think now you can do so much better for the money and there are some problems with it, it doesn't seem to be really major engine blows up kind of faults but more the kinds of things which mean you have to keep spending more money on it that you'd really like to.

[331sam331]

(Original post by aidans34)
I've not come and pretended that I know all about the engine mechanics of MG's or the like because I don't,


and do some mechanical work (which I don't do personally).

I think the problem is that because you are on the sales and 'figures' side of the business, you will be interpreting wrongly what is being classed as unreliable.

As JC has stated, for a car to be unreliable, it needs to be at the point where it's not starting in the morning or you are constantly on the side of the road in a cloud of smoke and late for work again.

Reliability indexes and figures, especially on websites with user generated reviews, are not a great indicator of reliability. Most common folk would put down something like a worn bush needing to be replaced, or a shock absorber/coil spring failing as a reliability issue. Yes, if that happening straight out of the factory after a few hundred miles, then it's a manufacturing problem, and reliability would come into it. But most people misconstrued the common wear and tear problems that every car has, as being a reliability issue.

I really don't want to get too involved in this little 'discussion' you guys are having, but I can say from working part time in a pretty busy garage for over 4 years (again, I can't prove that, so you will have to take my word for it), that ford KA's are the least of our problems.

As you would expect, we mostly deal with broken French junk like Renault, Citroen and Fiat. With the odd rover 25 headgasket thrown in for good measure (I swear I could do a head gasked on a Rover K series engine with my eyes shut now)

As for reliable older cars, you can't go to wrong with the Vauxhall/Honda/Ford. I myself am planning on getting a little 1.5td Corsa for a run around car. Cheap tax, can run on 80p per liter biodiesel , bullet proof engine and cheap, readily available parts

Only downside is they are ugly as hell (IMO).

http://www.autocircuit.nl/images/occ...jpg?1216911172

I would go for seomthing like that over the KA.

I also hate how flimsy feeling the KA's are. I mean they a pretty easy to drive, do OK on fuel and are light weight/small. But I hate how every time you get in it, or lean on it, it feels like it's going to break. So, to conclude, mechanically they are pretty sound, aesthetically I wouldn't go near one with a barge pole!!

[gbduo]

(Original post by aidans34)
I do like the S2000, thing is with the KA I can't find any reason to like it, it just seems awful to me from all angles with no saving graces other than initial purchase price (which I think is what really managed to make it a success, which i don't deny). I just think now you can do so much better for the money and there are some problems with it, it doesn't seem to be really major engine blows up kind of faults but more the kinds of things which mean you have to keep spending more money on it that you'd really like to.

Umm, true that.

[aidans34]

(Original post by 331sam331)
I think the problem is that because you are on the sales and 'figures' side of the business, you will be interpreting wrongly what is being classed as unreliable.

As JC has stated, for a car to be unreliable, it needs to be at the point where it's not starting in the morning or you are constantly on the side of the road in a cloud of smoke and late for work again.

Reliability indexes and figures, especially on websites with user generated reviews, are not a great indicator of reliability. Most common folk would put down something like a worn bush needing to be replaced, or a shock absorber/coil spring failing as a reliability issue. Yes, if that happening straight out of the factory after a few hundred miles, then it's a manufacturing problem, and reliability would come into it. But most people misconstrued the common wear and tear problems that every car has, as being a reliability issue.

I really don't want to get too involved in this little 'discussion' you guys are having, but I can say from working part time in a pretty busy garage for over 4 years (again, I can't prove that, so you will have to take my word for it), that ford KA's are the least of our problems.

As you would expect, we mostly deal with broken French junk like Renault, Citroen and Fiat. With the odd rover 25 headgasket thrown in for good measure (I swear I could do a head gasked on a Rover K series engine with my eyes shut now)

As for reliable older cars, you can't go to wrong with the Vauxhall/Honda/Ford. I myself am planning on getting a little 1.5td Corsa for a run around car. Cheap tax, can run on 80p per liter biodiesel , bullet proof engine and cheap, readily available parts

Only downside is they are ugly as hell (IMO).

http://www.autocircuit.nl/images/occ...jpg?1216911172

I would go for seomthing like that over the KA.

I also hate how flimsy feeling the KA's are. I mean they a pretty easy to drive, do OK on fuel and are light weight/small. But I hate how every time you get in it, or lean on it, it feels like it's going to break. So, to conclude, mechanically they are pretty sound, aesthetically I wouldn't go near one with a barge pole!!

I do get your point that theres certainly a difference between cars which destroy their own engines and cars where bits on the suspension and the rest start to deteriorate. Problem is for me is that, if something visibly doesn't work, like the stereo, I have to replace it and I also end up putting 12 months MOT on most of the cars so if it fails that on something I also end up having to get it fixed. I know to look for oil leaks, creamy substance under the headgasket, overheating, slow accelaration etc for signs of engine or turbo damage but it really hard on the side of the road to tell if suspension or other parts are damaged, which in a way makes it worse.

[mikeorchard]

This thread is ridiculous. The Ford Ka is a fine car for a first time driver, just as much as a Corsa or similar is. So long as it's not falling apart, you'll get a year or more of relatively painfree transport out of it, even with a £500 one.

[JC.]

(Original post by aidans34)
I'm not being funny but maybe you shouldn't call out people you don't know because it ends up making you have to back down. I've not come and pretended that I know all about the engine mechanics of MG's or the like because I don't, and you obviously do so I'll listen to your opinion. On the same vain if you were into modern procurement those sites are important because they are trade only access to a lot of main dealer stock. Likewise in my line of work understanding the vehicle conditional alert register is important.

I'm not going to pretend I own some massive enterprise, but me and a mate do own a premises from which we sell cars (although we've only been open a short while we used to driveway trade so i;ve seen from both sides), and do some mechanical work (which I don't do personally). I therefore mainly end up doing sales and procurement purely because that is where the workload falls. I am still a student, until June so it makes enough sense for me to be on this forum.

Maybe I have a corsa for sale? Or maybe I just have an interest in cars and like discussing them. I wasn't planning on saying anything about myself but since you called me out I had to. I personally am very critical of the KA as a first car as I don't hear good things about them and I don't like them whenever I've been in them plus they don't do well against the competition. I'm still at a loss as to why so many people like them as I really don't see it, but lets try to be adult about this

Sorry Pal, but you called your own credibility into question when you start publically critiscising prime stock.
KA's are prime stock and always have been. I'm not sure whether you're saying "they don't do well against the competition" as a vehicle or as a pitch filler. One statment is nuts the other has an element of truth to it.
Against the competition they are basic. Basic means cheap to maintain due to simplicity which is what a lot of folk go after. A comparative Polo are notorious for ecu and injector faults on the baby petrol model which aint cheap to sort. Corsa's seem to struggle on emissions at every MOT test - not a big deal, but it gives you the hump if you've got to find £xxx for a new cat.
As a pitch filler KA's are, in my experience, fantastic against the competition. Back when I did moderns I never had a KA in longer than 2 weeks which says a heck of a lot.

To bring it back full circle, KA; fantastic vehicel? The last word in performance? Hell no. But is a KA in good condition with an *honest* MOT reliable and a viable choice for a first car? Absolutely.

If it were my money I wouldn't even consider one as they don't offer anything I look for in a car. My tastes are somewhat more eclectic. I had a bright yellow '76 Triumph Spitfire 1500 as my first car. My other half chose, although I didn't know her at the time, had a '79 Porsche 911 SC Targa. I suspect that in itself gives bigger clues to what our thoughts on what would represent a decent first car. Although, I accept we're quite firmly in the minority in that respect!

[JC.]

(Original post by aidans34)
but it really hard on the side of the road to tell if suspension or other parts are damaged, which in a way makes it worse.

A cheap roll matt (fiver from the pound shop) and a rechargable LED inspection lamp is all you need.

Roll the matt out to protect your clothes and get down there and aim the lamp at what you want to see. Whilst you're down there you can check sills and subframe mounts too.
Not that there's many moderns that suffer from sill issues these days? KA's and Jag X types and mk4 fiestas are the only real bread and butter stuff worth mentioning.
Although, having said that, chances are if you're looking at a mk4 fiesta it's probably a 50 quid swapper anyway...

[gbduo]

(Original post by JC.)
A cheap roll matt (fiver from the pound shop) and a rechargable LED inspection lamp is all you need.

Roll the matt out to protect your clothes and get down there and aim the lamp at what you want to see. Whilst you're down there you can check sills and subframe mounts too.
Not that there's many moderns that suffer from sill issues these days? KA's and Jag X types and mk4 fiestas are the only real bread and butter stuff worth mentioning.
Although, having said that, chances are if you're looking at a mk4 fiesta it's probably a 50 quid swapper anyway...

And any Land Rover! Rust can be horrendous on them. Good old British Steel

[aidans34]

(Original post by JC.)
Sorry Pal, but you called your own credibility into question when you start publically critiscising prime stock.
KA's are prime stock and always have been. I'm not sure whether you're saying "they don't do well against the competition" as a vehicle or as a pitch filler. One statment is nuts the other has an element of truth to it.
Against the competition they are basic. Basic means cheap to maintain due to simplicity which is what a lot of folk go after. A comparative Polo are notorious for ecu and injector faults on the baby petrol model which aint cheap to sort. Corsa's seem to struggle on emissions at every MOT test - not a big deal, but it gives you the hump if you've got to find £xxx for a new cat.
As a pitch filler KA's are, in my experience, fantastic against the competition. Back when I did moderns I never had a KA in longer than 2 weeks which says a heck of a lot.

To bring it back full circle, KA; fantastic vehicel? The last word in performance? Hell no. But is a KA in good condition with an *honest* MOT reliable and a viable choice for a first car? Absolutely.

If it were my money I wouldn't even consider one as they don't offer anything I look for in a car. My tastes are somewhat more eclectic. I had a bright yellow '76 Triumph Spitfire 1500 as my first car. My other half chose, although I didn't know her at the time, had a '79 Porsche 911 SC Targa. I suspect that in itself gives bigger clues to what our thoughts on what would represent a decent first car. Although, I accept we're quite firmly in the minority in that respect!

The problem is with the KA as stock its difficult to get one so cheap that you can price it well against the online competition because people put very low mileage ones for under a grand all the time. Thats why I don't go out any buy them, whereas with a corsa, a reasonable spec with low mileage on an 04 can sit at just under £2k quite nicely so that I can make mine price attractive. Moreover it always seems to take me much longer to shift the stuff between £800-£1200 (with a couple of exceptions) than the more expensive stuff. I personally have two types of car that I regard to be top sellers but I'm not going to post publically.
I'm saying they don't do well against the competition as a vehicle. I've given my reasons why I don't stock them like I do other small cars.

[JC.]

Depends how much you aim to make on a car, doesn't it? Are you going for volume turnover small margin or low turnover large margin? I'd turn a lot of KA's away before I dealt up, but then you can say that about any vehicle. When you get a bargain on one of those you KNOW you're doing a deal that week, though.

Stuff under a grand we always used to refer to as "one for ****ters corner" i.e the p/x to clear candidates. £1500 to £4 grand was always our best market. Beyond this the punters start expecting a bit more.

Not going to cite my make / model of choice, either. Well, I will for moderns as I don't bother with them now... Z3's and small people carriers that crucially DONT have wrecked interiors always go quickly.
Least favorit: Rover 75's. FANTASTIC cars and such a lot of car for the money. Unfortunately, every punter looking for one in my experience is a tool - so far up their own arse it's unreal. The exact same punter buys Stags in the classic car world.

[aidans34]

(Original post by JC.)
Depends how much you aim to make on a car, doesn't it? Are you going for volume turnover small margin or low turnover large margin? I'd turn a lot of KA's away before I dealt up, but then you can say that about any vehicle. When you get a bargain on one of those you KNOW you're doing a deal that week, though.

Stuff under a grand we always used to refer to as "one for ****ters corner" i.e the p/x to clear candidates. £1500 to £4 grand was always our best market. Beyond this the punters start expecting a bit more.

Not going to cite my make / model of choice, either. Well, I will for moderns as I don't bother with them now... Z3's and small people carriers that crucially DONT have wrecked interiors always go quickly.
Least favorit: Rover 75's. FANTASTIC cars and such a lot of car for the money. Unfortunately, every punter looking for one in my experience is a tool - so far up their own arse it's unreal. The exact same punter buys Stags in the classic car world.

Coming up from driveway trading to forecourt trading rather than from main dealer to independant means I don't like cars sitting around with huge margins on for a while, I like to have things turned over quickly which means pricing them cheap on the trader. Problem is with a KA that there are very low mileage ones for around 1200/1300 so I need to be getting them for £500, which can be a struggle if its in good condition. Hence why I tend to avoid them, unless one arrives in part exchange in which case no collection costs etc . . which means I can price it cheaply without only making pennies. I tend to look mostly for small(ish) ultra desirable cars just because theres a lot of people in the market prepared to pay proper money for decent examples.

[snakeyface]

My 2002 Ka is doing absolutely fine, no rust, no problems. Fun car to drive!

[JC.]

How many traders have you got in at the moment then?
What have you got?

[aidans34]

(Original post by JC.)
How many traders have you got in at the moment then?
What have you got?

Do you mean trader ads? Got saxo, 2 puntos, 320d, A3 2.0TDI, Mondeo, Corsa, Astra, C Class, Smart City Coupe, Megane

[JC.]

Yeah, Traders as in "stock you've bought to sell" as opposed to personal vehicles.
Where do you advertise? Surely you're not just reliant on autotrader and walk-ons?

[aidans34]

Autotrader is the best site to sell on in my opinion, obvs theres magazine slots as well, I do use ebay but I don't rate it all that much tbh

[JO53PHS]

(Original post by JC.)
Where do you advertise?

(Original post by aidans34)
Autotrader is the best site to sell on in my opinion, obvs theres magazine slots as well, I do use ebay but I don't rate it all that much tbh

Autotrader is bloody expensive though.. It works out that we're paying 11 times more per car on Autotrader than on eBay.

Is there anywhere else you guys get a good response from? I've taken advantage of the free advertising on Car & Classic, but for your average modern car, the response you get is next to nothing (understandably so).