[Old School]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...more_grow_more

Read this.

Perhaps the best line in the article: 'growth is what will separate you from the rest of the gym members that don't ever get anything accomplished.'

[Frank Nero]

(Original post by Old School)
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...more_grow_more

Read this.

Perhaps the best line in the article: 'growth is what will separate you from the rest of the gym members that don't ever get anything accomplished.'

Good read, brah - I agree.

People keep telling me that I've got my bodyfat up too high but I'm making great gains in strength and size with my new diet. And the extra fat makes me feel great - I have much more mental energy than before and my libido has increased!

[iSMark]

Quoted from article:

"But a lean and muscular 165 lbs. at 5' 10" looks exactly the same in clothes as a guy that size that doesn't train at all."

Is that all these people train for though? Vanity and looks alone?

I generally train to fulfill other needs than purely what other people think of my size in my clothes.

[Old School]

(Original post by iSMark)
Quoted from article:

"But a lean and muscular 165 lbs. at 5' 10" looks exactly the same in clothes as a guy that size that doesn't train at all."

Is that all these people train for though? Vanity and looks alone?

I generally train to fulfill other needs than purely what other people think of my size in my clothes.

Well done for completely missing the point. If you hadn't noticed the article was written by Mark Ripptoe (the same dude who wrote starting strength). He is about as anti 'aesthetics' training as you can get.

Also quoted from the article: 'From a more practical standpoint, your muscular size and strength increases your value as a man in the more important sense of work capacity. Bigger, stronger men are more valuable on the battlefield, the football field, the soccer field, and in any field of employment in which there is a physical component.'

A question for you, if you actually lift:

How much has you squat/bench/deadlift/press gone up in the last 6 months?

How much do you weigh?

[iSMark]

(Original post by Old School)
A question for you, if you actually lift:

How much has you squat/bench/deadlift/press gone up in the last 6 months?

How much do you weigh?

You reply with questions that my original post was laughing at.

[Chumbaniya]

(Original post by Old School)
Also quoted from the article: 'From a more practical standpoint, your muscular size and strength increases your value as a man in the more important sense of work capacity. Bigger, stronger men are more valuable on the battlefield, the football field, the soccer field, and in any field of employment in which there is a physical component.'

I know this is going off on a bit of a tangent, but even though I appreciate, as someone who primarily trains (when I actually bother) for strength, that it's nice to think of strength training as functional, it's a bit of a myth. The best Rippetoe can come up with in terms of being useful is a single niche career (and not even all military roles) and a few recreational activities.

It's time the strength training community accepted that barbell training is something you do for fun, and in the majority of cases people who think it's actually useful are fooling themselves. I'm not saying barbell training is bad, but in the vast majority of cases it doesn't make you any more useful than, say, playing badminton would. It's healthy to be active, sure, but this macho idea that being strong is important doesn't really wash.

[Old School]

(Original post by iSMark)
You reply with questions that my original post was laughing at.

If you don't have any interest in the topic then why bother posting? Says a lot more about you than it does about those you mock.

[Motorbiker]

(Original post by iSMark)
You reply with questions that my original post was laughing at.

Looked like your original post was laughing at people that train just for looks and then he asked you about what numbers you actually lift which is not the same...


Also, i'm probably the exact person this article is aimed at but i don't care. I'd rather be a weaker person at 160lbs then a stronger fatter 200lbs person. It's about what you're training for really.

[navy_taxi]

(Original post by Chumbaniya)
I know this is going off on a bit of a tangent, but even though I appreciate, as someone who primarily trains (when I actually bother) for strength, that it's nice to think of strength training as functional, it's a bit of a myth. The best Rippetoe can come up with in terms of being useful is a single niche career (and not even all military roles) and a few recreational activities.

It's time the strength training community accepted that barbell training is something you do for fun, and in the majority of cases people who think it's actually useful are fooling themselves. I'm not saying barbell training is bad, but in the vast majority of cases it doesn't make you any more useful than, say, playing badminton would. It's healthy to be active, sure, but this macho idea that being strong is important doesn't really wash.

This. Although I do think that strength training is likely to make you slightly more useful than badminton (only in the sense that I think that being strong has slightly more carryover to real-life activities).

On another note, even though I find Rippetoe's take to be rather narrow-minded and unsubstantiated, it is really interesting to read the opinions of people who are so fixated on mass/strength gains - the whole concept is totally alien to me. For me, strength gains are great in that they are a marker for my performance, and help to inspire continuous progression, but I think they will almost always be secondary to aesthetics.

[Chumbaniya]

(Original post by navy_taxi)
This. Although I do think that strength training is likely to make you slightly more useful than badminton (only in the sense that I think that being strong has slightly more carryover to real-life activities).

On another note, even though I find Rippetoe's take to be rather narrow-minded and unsubstantiated, it is really interesting to read the opinions of people who are so fixated on mass/strength gains - the whole concept is totally alien to me. For me, strength gains are great in that they are a marker for my performance, and help to inspire continuous progression, but I think they will almost always be secondary to aesthetics.

I can absolutely understand the desire to see strength gains - whenever I've trained most intensively, it's been for strength - but only in the same way that I understand the desire of a runner to get a better time or a discuss thrower to get a bigger distance. I feel like strength training in general is often made out to be more than it really is, and there's this idea that it makes you more of a man. Sure, strength training is good for keeping you active and fit, enjoyable (certainly for me) and a good hobby, and I understand the reaction given that strength training is often very close to the necessarily vanity-based topic of training for aesthetics, but this idea of functional strength isn't particularly convincing.

[Ocassus]

Pfft haha, what a load of capital sized bull****.

Yes Rippetoe, super bulking is good for sports like (American) football. Football? Don't make me laugh. Swimming? Jog on son. Even in Rugby, unless you play a specific position there is a balance that has to be struck.

Pretty much every sport that doesn't involve lifting weights revolves around training for that sport and supplementing it with weight training. Not the other way around.

A massive guy is useless on the 'battlefield' because, guess what? A guy with shoulders packed with muscle will have no range of motion on a built but lithe swordsmen.

Go train some useless sarcoplasmic moar.

[Chumbaniya]

(Original post by Ocassus)
A massive guy is useless on the 'battlefield' because, guess what? A guy with shoulders packed with muscle will have no range of motion on a built but lithe swordsmen.

I've got to level with you on this one - I don't think a swordsman is going to be much use on the battlefield.

[Ocassus]

(Original post by Chumbaniya)
I've got to level with you on this one - I don't think a swordsman is going to be much use on the battlefield.

True, on a modern one, I guess not. But neither is a big guy, bigger target and all.

[Chumbaniya]

(Original post by Ocassus)
True, on a modern one, I guess not. But neither is a big guy, bigger target and all.

Oh yeah, that wasn't my point at all. A good marksman with sound judgement and plenty of stamina is, I imagine, a better soldier than someone who's focused on developing entirely superfluous physical attributes instead of these qualities.

[McHumpy92]

Kind of agree with article if talking about bodybuilding or powerlifting.... but that isn't everyones goal.

Definitely true about looking small in clothes if natty and lean....would take a fair few years to look big like that.

[HFerguson]

All I'll say is, different strokes for different folks.

There aren't many people dedicated enough to the iron game who'll entirely sacrifice their self-confidence, ego and vanity for some gains. Bodyfat means something to a lot of trainees. It's all about priorities at the end of the day.

There's also a huge difference between being an "ecto" and naturally 9% bodyfat and being skinny as a ****ing rail and really needing to bulk, and someone who's had a higher bodyfat % their whole life who doesn't need anymore, who has a warranted and substantiated fear of bodyfat.

[Arturo Bandini]

Nearly all the guys I know who are/were in the military went in skinny and came out massive

[iSMark]

(Original post by Old School)
If you don't have any interest in the topic then why bother posting? Says a lot more about you than it does about those you mock.

I have an interest in the topic.

[iSMark]

(Original post by Motorbiker)
Looked like your original post was laughing at people that train just for looks and then he asked you about what numbers you actually lift which is not the same...

6"2

192lb

Happy now? I'm not, and I doubt it helps the discussion either.

I can't exactly remember the gain in weight over the last 6 months. I'm just satisfied with the level I'm at.

[The Troll Toll]

(Original post by iSMark)
6"2

192lb

Happy now? I'm not, and I doubt it helps the discussion either.

I can't exactly remember the gain in weight over the last 6 months. I'm just satisfied with the level I'm at.

So wait do you squat 6'2 and bench 192 lbs or the other way round?