Doctor who helped CIA find Bin Laden jailed for 30 years by Pakistan for treason

If Pakistan was an upright nation, then yeah, sure.

But the fact is Pakistan is a nation that helps the Taliban, have proved numerous times that they are totally untrustworthy and have in multiple cases failed to act on intelligence. They refuse to share intelligence more often than not and are an increasingly, alarmingly, conservative Islamic nation. With all that in mind, military action that invades their sovreignty should be expected if they fail to act on their own soil. They are playing both sides, they don't like the result, maybe they should declare for a single side.

It's funny, because Bin Laden has been dead since December 2001.

I love when people comment on Pakistan without understanding the nation.

1) The country is conservative and yet the vast majority of the population is extremely peaceful. The number of extremists is relatively low and only came about due to our support for the Mujahideen during the 1980's. Remember who else supported individuals like Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Dostum etc. or do you have a selective memory in this context as well?

2) Helps the Taliban? What a ridiculous laughably simple statement. I've seen you justify Western support for Israel and various other vile regimes in the past on the grounds of things such as national security. What makes Pakistan different?

We have lost over 30,000 civilians in this phony war- consider the reaction in the UK after losing around 50. Supporting the Afghan Taliban ensures they (on top of the TTP) also do not turn on the Pakistani populace plus allowing the country to maintain its interests inside the country. Do I like this? No. Do I like the Afghan Taliban? No, I despise them. But the other side isn't exactly angelic either- it also consists of warlords and tyrants and mass murderers. I would comment further but I really don't have time to engage in useless circular arguments.

Perhaps you should look towards the hypocrisy and double standards of the West before you judge others.

There you go, you know the reason. The US work for the West, generally speaking the people who don't want to kill us, opress our people and bring in dogmatic, dark ages law systems. If they are less than upstanding in the pursuit of such a course I'm far less likely to worry.

Why do you people always try to equate the West with the Islamic militias? It's pathetic.

When the US goes around murdering people for comitting adultery, stoning women seen out with men, denying girls the right to education, forcing farmers into the drug trade, killing teachers and denying all human rights to the populace it controls, then you may have a point. Until such a time it's pathetic and transparent rhetoric.

Yes and obviously because the "US works for the West", its support of murderous regimes.groups ranging from Saddam to Pol Pot to Pinochet to the Contras, destabalisation of nations everywhere and the ruination of millions of lives caused which would otherwise have not happened is completely justified right? Oh and don't forget how most of this was due to economic/"national security" reasons and nothing at all to do with human rights etc.

So basically your viewpoint: I will hypocritically support my own side no matter how many people are killed/maimed but God forbid when other nations go against ones I like for the betterment for their own citizens.

I don't know what on earth you're going on about. I'm talking about two countries, Bangladesh and Pakistan. Now concentrate. Don't change the subject to America or Japan or whatever. Pakistan massacred 3 million Bangladeshis and did not apologise. It's as simple as that.

I see, so you would have the US phsycically know when any regime is going to turn out bad, and then withdraw all support and trade with that nation regardless of the cost to itself every single time, just incase. That seems perfectly reasonable

The difference between doing trade with these regimes and being one is rather large my dear, but of course you will wilfully neglect that difference to fit your own narrative. And I presume you;re talking of Iraq and Afghanistan? The 'ruination' of so many lives would stop if ISlamic militias would stop bombing their own people, fighting in crowded civilian areas, hell, stop fighting altogether. And the reasons for the invasions are myriad, from NAtional security, to regional stability, to human rights issues to economic stability. All important. But wait, I'm guessing according to you it was all to make money right!

So basically your viewpoint: I will try to defend my Islamic brothers no matter how abhorrent they are, and seeing the West as the enemy I will constantly try to equate their actions to those abhorrent actions perpetrated by those I'm trying to defend, in order to justify their actions.

hahaha sure, the US had no idea of what people like Pol Pot and Pinochet were going to do despite knowing their policies beforehand and obviously somehow just COULDN'T stop supporting them even when mass murder etc. started.

No, I'am not a retard- I know there was a myriad of reasons and yet most had nothing to do with morality and everything to do with self-interest.

No, this has nothing to do with Islam. I condemn things I consider wrong no matter what the religion of the perpetrator. I don't really know how you came to that conclusion from the arguments I presented.

Yes, it was terrible and Pakistan should apologise but the figure most historians agree on is 300,000 not 3m.

They should apologise. As should a whole host of other countries for their crimes. Why single out Pakistan?

I disagree. Those who state 30,000-300,000 were mainly pro-government Pakistanis, who committed the atrocities, as well as pro-US scholars (note that the US government wanted Pakistan as their ally and as a result US military aide was only concentrated in West-Pakistan. Read up on the Blood Telegram for enlightenment)
English historians, scholars and writers, however, usually say the number is nearer to 3,000,000 with a few claiming 1,500,000. E.g. Matthew J. White, R. J. Rummel, etc.
Just to clarify, this doesn't mean I have anything against Pakistanis themselves. I simply don't trust the Pakistan government (most of the politicians were hypocrites who claimed to be Muslim and yet were heavy drinkers e.g. Jinnah, Yahya Khan etc). I equally distrust the US government.

And what are they to do after these people are seen as less than savoury? Impose sanctions, well, they are ripped apart for that, for isolating dictators, making things worse for there subjects. They do nothing? They're still the great Western devil. Activley get involved? Ruination of millions of lives. See the problem. People like you are never satisfied.

BEcause the US is the only country in the world that does things out of self-interest....oh wait :faceplam2:

Funny how it's always the West you're condemning and your Islamic bretheren you're defending, just a coincidence right?

I understand your viewpoint but that figure is genuinely inaccurate if you do some research. The figure given by the Pakistanis was 30,000- again wildly off.

The origins of the figure of 3m is from comments made by Yahya Khan to journalist Richard Payne. I would refer you to a conference held by the US DoD in 2005 in which the Bangladeshi speakers accepted that the figure of 3m had been wrongly translated from Bengali to English and that the actual figure of 300,000.

OK, the US's support for individuals who they knew held genocidal viewpoints and ended up murdering millions of people were completely justified. Comfort yourself with that opinion. There's a difference between actively and enthusiastically supporting such regimes and ignoring them which is different still from imposing sanctions against them or active intervention. You seem to be justifying ACTIVE WESTERN SUPPORT for murderous regimes.

No, every country does things due to its own self-interest not just Pakistan and that's exactly the point I was trying to make.

Give me one instance in which I have defended my "Islamic brethren" unjustifiably- for example when a Muslim has murdered and raped etc.

You seem like an honest person so I'll take your word for it. 300k people is still a damn lot though.

I never said that the US shouldn't apologise to Vietnam (and Iraq, Afghanistan, Native Americans, Japan etc) and for inventing the concept of 'terrorists'. I do indeed hate the US goverment.
However this thread was about Pakistan which is why I brought up the Bangladesh massacre, mainly because the whole world ignored it even though it's the third worst genocide in the 20th century - pretty much a holocaust.
I admit, it was my anger that made me write those initial posts.