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Is homosexuality a mental illness?

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    I wouldn't call in a mental illness. If we were to define it as something apart from the ordinary, then yes. But unlike a mental illness, it has no negative adverse impact on either the individual or society. Some heterosexual couples simply decide to not have children, is this a mental disorder? I don't think that procreation should be seen as a biological instinct like the hunger mechanism, we have evolved to the point where we are intelligent enough to make conscious decisions about whether or not to have children. It is no longer necessary to have such an instinct in order for the survival of our species.
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    nope its a genetic mutation

    like green eyes
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    Unnatural meaning that your natural functions of, sorry for rudeness ass, do not involve sticking anything in, its meant to get rid of food you can't digest. Obviously you can do it, but imagine an iphone - you can unlock it, but its not meant to be that way.

    About 3 yes you guys (or girls) could have spent your time working and i could do something better instead, which is better for society as a whole if i would make, say, a cup and you would go chop some wood (its in very simplistic terms, but gives an idea), we are just talking instead.

    Well yes you are bad for society for not wanting kids, but that is a different thing from being homosexual.Everyone is unique and higher birth rate provides more opportunities for humanity, that child, that is not born could be a medic that would make cure for cancer or great engineer, which would benefit everybody and when this child is not born the chance is lost.

    Actually thinking of it, gay people are unhappier generally, because of the fact they are gay. They always get pressurised by the society on the state and personal levels and will definetly have some physchological issues linked to their sexuality. Moreover, if they have children they wouldn't be as happy , as again society (in particular schools) will pressurise( i guess, even in very violent terms) them which will again have an effect on their happiness. Therefore, if gay people were not gay they possibly could be happier.

    If you look in history textbooks, homosexuality always presented in bad light (even if book tries to be nuetral), which gives a very clear indication of what society wants from the people.
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    (Original post by PJAdams)
    Your name is the very same point to the very argument you present...so empty
    Do you see what i mean? That person just wasted time on linking something as stupid as my user name to the things i was saying. Complete waste of time which he could have spent better (even if it was making a constructive comment). Just because he thinks i am wrong it takes time and effort to write something. If this didn't exist in society less time would be wasted. This is much easier to do through getting rid of homosexual people, rather than convincing everyone that it is absolutely fine to be homosexual as the majority of world's population will have stronger or weaker negative views against gay people.
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    This doesn't make any sense at all. My friend is a lesbian and she has a baby. I'm not a lesbian, and I don't want to have kids. Surely by your definition I'm the mentally ill one not partaking in procreation, and she has procreated so she isn't the mentally ill one. But she's the gay one and I'm not...
    As I presume you find men attractive I'd say that you weren't suffering from a genetic disorder. The desire to have kids is only one part of the equation, if you're unable to conceive (for whatever reason) you're deviating from the norm and probably suffering from some form of illness. If a guy has a naturally low sperm count for example he may still want to have kids but his condition might prevent his partner from getting pregnant. Is it prejudiced to say he's ill? If not why can't I say the same about gays?
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    (Original post by kopite493)
    nope its a genetic mutation

    like green eyes
    It's probably not. Epigenetics offers a more thinkable explanation.
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    (Original post by Retrodiction)
    How can something that occurs within the framework of the natural system be called unnatural? Surely this is a fundamental logical fallacy?
    So if someone was born with 3 arms you'd consider this to be totally normal? :confused:
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    (Original post by Retrodiction)
    It's probably not. Epigenetics offers a more thinkable explanation.
    So if I act gay my kids will be gay too?

    serious now, do you have a link or anything?
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    So if someone was born with 3 arms you'd consider this to be totally normal? :confused:
    There are only 2 options when it comes to this: natural and supernatural. If something occurs or can occur within the naturalistic framework then by definition it is natural.

    Also, I know you're probably working on it right now, but could you respond to post 66? It deals with some of the objections you raised to minimarshmallow.
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    (Original post by TheHansa)
    So if I act gay my kids will be gay too?

    serious now, do you have a link or anything?
    What are you talking about? Epigenetics refers to the spectrum of chemical factors that can alter gene expression without actually altering the genetic code itself.
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    (Original post by Retrodiction)
    What are you talking about? Epigenetics refers to the spectrum of chemical factors that can alter gene expression without actually altering the genetic code itself.

    In biology, and specifically genetics, epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence – hence the name epi- (Greek: επί- over, above, outer) -genetics. It refers to functionally relevant modifications to the genome that do not involve a change in the nucleotide sequence

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
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    (Original post by TheHansa)
    In biology, and specifically genetics, epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence – hence the name epi- (Greek: επί- over, above, outer) -genetics. It refers to functionally relevant modifications to the genome that do not involve a change in the nucleotide sequence

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
    That is exactly what I said, why bother reiterating it to me? It refers, as I said about 2 minutes ago, to the spectrum of chemical factors that can alter gene expression without altering the genetic code. There is evidence that the placement and effect of these factors can be passed on, but the evidence isn't all in yet, and this is irrelevant to my point. I was referring to epigenetic factors that have their origins in the pre-natal period, rather than in inheritance from a parent.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    As I presume you find men attractive I'd say that you weren't suffering from a genetic disorder. The desire to have kids is only one part of the equation, if you're unable to conceive (for whatever reason) you're deviating from the norm and probably suffering from some form of illness. If a guy has a naturally low sperm count for example he may still want to have kids but his condition might prevent his partner from getting pregnant. Is it prejudiced to say he's ill? If not why can't I say the same about gays?
    Not wanting to have kids is as much a barrier to procreation as not being able to have kids. I could go and have my tubes tied right now.
    If a man had a low sperm count (or a 0 sperm count) and therefore unable to have children I'd say he had a physical problem causing a low sperm count, be that excessive heat to the testicles, narrowed sperm ducks due to injury or smoking, or anti-sperm antibodies (and an abundance of other problems). I wouldn't say he was mentally ill, which you seem to be doing to gay people who do want and do have children.
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    Not wanting to have kids is as much a barrier to procreation as not being able to have kids. I could go and have my tubes tied right now.
    If a man had a low sperm count (or a 0 sperm count) and therefore unable to have children I'd say he had a physical problem causing a low sperm count, be that excessive heat to the testicles, narrowed sperm ducks due to injury or smoking, or anti-sperm antibodies (and an abundance of other problems). I wouldn't say he was mentally ill, which you seem to be doing to gay people who do want and do have children.
    Getting your tubes tied is a decision usually taken after you've had children, so it doesn't really prevent the formation of a family and procreation. For the minority of women who've bought into the false dream of 'independence' and 'a career' at the expense of family they usually regret it later on life as spinsterhood looms, but by the time this false consciousness has been recognised it's often too late. Most women aren't the child hating career obsessives you paint them to be, this is a strawman designed to avoid the original point of the thread.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Getting your tubes tied is a decision usually taken after you've had children, so it doesn't really prevent the formation of a family and procreation. For the minority of women who've bought into the false dream of 'independence' and 'a career' at the expense of family they usually regret it later on life as spinsterhood looms, but by the time this false consciousness has been recognised it's often too late. Most women aren't the child hating career obsessives you paint them to be, this is a strawman designed to avoid the original point of the thread.
    The original point of the thread that I've already dismantled in post 66, but that you chose to ignore (unsurprisingly).
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    (Original post by Retrodiction)
    Homosexuality isn't the lack of desire to have children, it's the lack of sexual and emotional attraction to members of the opposite sex. Homosexuals can and often do still have children, the only difference is that the most common method is circumvented. By your logic heterosexuals who don't really fancy the idea of having children would be deemed mentally ill, and this is clearly just silliness. Only a person who believes that attraction to the opposite sex is 'correct', whatever this may mean, could suggest that it is a mental illness, because the argument regarding procreation just doesn't hold any water when thought about in any depth, as I've hopefully just shown.
    So if I had an emotional desire to have kids but found I was only attracted to soft furnishings and disgusted at the prosepct of having sex with women you'd say I was a peferctly normal rational being?

    From a biological perspective getting intimite with a cushion cover is about as likely to produce offspring as a homosexual relationship, and for that reason they're both equally defective.
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    (Original post by Retrodiction)
    It's probably not. Epigenetics offers a more thinkable explanation.
    hmmm id never thought of that your probably right
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Getting your tubes tied is a decision usually taken after you've had children, so it doesn't really prevent the formation of a family and procreation. For the minority of women who've bought into the false dream of 'independence' and 'a career' at the expense of family they usually regret it later on life as spinsterhood looms, but by the time this false consciousness has been recognised it's often too late. Most women aren't the child hating career obsessives you paint them to be, this is a strawman designed to avoid the original point of the thread.
    I don't know when this became attacking women who don't want children (including me). I never said all women were like this, or even that many women were like that. I merely made the point that gay people do want and do have children, so you can't say they're mentally ill because of a barrier to procreation; and there are people who aren't gay who don't want to have children, and you don't call them mentally ill.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    So if I had an emotional desire to have kids but found I was only attracted to soft furnishings and disgusted at the prosepct of having sex with women you'd say I was a peferctly normal rational being?

    From a biological perspective getting intimite with a cushion cover is about as likely to produce offspring as a homosexual relationship, and for that reason they're both equally defective.
    Newsflash, homosexuals know they can't have children within their couple. That's why they get insemination and use surrogates.
    You can't compare loving an inanimate object (or an animal etc.) to loving another consenting adult human being.
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    Either way, it's a good thing in this day and age with the current overpopulation of Earth
Updated: May 28, 2012
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