[muddywaters51]

I do not think minimum wage laws should exist at all.

[Annoying-Mouse]

The majority of OCED countries have minimum wage and are doing fairly well for themselves. The wiki link on minimum wage states that studies have found it has "discernible impact on employment levels". However, it also states "Various groups have great ideological, political, financial, and emotional investments in issues surrounding minimum wage laws. For example, agencies that administer the laws have a vested interest in showing that "their" laws do not create unemployment, as do labour unions, whose members' jobs are protected by minimum wage laws. On the other side of the issue, low-wage employers such as restaurants finance the Employment Policies Institute, which has released numerous studies opposing the minimum wage. The presence of these powerful groups and factors means that the debate on the issue is not always based on dispassionate analysis. Additionally, it is extraordinarily difficult to separate the effects of minimum wage from all the other variables that affect employment."

I don't really see a problem with it. It's not really doing any disadvantage as far as I can see. Economics seems to be a highly subjective field, for me when there's a lack of consensus on issues it suggests a lack of evidence which leads to people making conclusions based on their ideology as opposed to data. Pre 1990s, 90% of economist disagreed with minimum wage. Now about 45% disagree which seems to suggests that evidence in favor of minimum wage is stronger now or evidence against it is weaker. We already have sub-minimum wage for low-skilled youths i.e. apprenticeships which is £2.65.

[Classical Liberal]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
T"Various groups have great ideological, political, financial, and emotional investments in issues surrounding minimum wage laws. For example, agencies that administer the laws have a vested interest in showing that "their" laws do not create unemployment, as do labour unions, whose members' jobs are protected by minimum wage laws. On the other side of the issue, low-wage employers such as restaurants finance the Employment Policies Institute, which has released numerous studies opposing the minimum wage.

Lets think about this for a moment then. Who probably has more bargaining power and more clout to change the law. The highly organised and politically influential labour unions teaming up with the civil service. Compared to thousands of small businesses who cannot cooperate otherwise they would be considered a cartel and the people who represent the unemployed (hahaha nobody represents the unemployed).

It is pretty bloody obvious which side has more power when guiding government policy. It is hardly even worth making the comparison.

[Katie_p]

I voted it's not enough, becaus the differences between pay for different age-groups are simply ridiculous. I applied for a summer job, which I am probably more likely to get than somebody 3 years older than me, because the company will pay me more, but for which I would be earning less than my colleagues, simply because I am younger than them.
I don't think a difference between under and over 18 is a particularly bad thing, but to distinguish between over and under 21, when many people at 19 or 20 will have as much, or even more, experience as/than somebody 21 or over, is absolutely ridiculous.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Classical Liberal)
Lets think about this for a moment then. Who probably has more bargaining power and more clout to change the law. The highly organised and politically influential labour unions teaming up with the civil service. Compared to thousands of small businesses who cannot cooperate otherwise they would be considered a cartel and the people who represent the unemployed (hahaha nobody represents the unemployed).

It is pretty bloody obvious which side has more power when guiding government policy. It is hardly even worth making the comparison.

I'm not talking about power to change the law. I'm and that wiki link is talking about data manipulation, one side is presenting studies that show it has no negative effects and the other side is showing that it has negative effects.

[Classical Liberal]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
I'm not talking about power to change the law. I'm and that wiki link is talking about data manipulation, one side is presenting studies that show it has no negative effects and the other side is showing that it has negative effects.

Yeah your right. My point is that the sides are not equally balanced.

[twinklegirl7]

When compared to countries like Canada, where their min wage converted to pounds is higher than ours yet their living costs are a lot cheaper, it seems we need to have a higher raise in wage to match the inflation in costs. However of course this is not feasible.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Classical Liberal)
Yeah your right. My point is that the sides are not equally balanced.

When it comes to power to change the law, I agree, the government are going to use the union sides studies to protect the law. They're equally balanced in their data manipulation though.

[Classical Liberal]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
When it comes to power to change the law, I agree, the government are going to use the union sides studies to protect the law. They're equally balanced in their data manipulation though.

Lies, dammed lies, and then there are statistics.

[buildalegohouse]

I voted that it was too small and that it should be increased. However, considering the state of the country, the government hardly have any attention to raise it. What bothers me most is how it affects people over 21. To people 18 or under, I think the wages are okay, but to a person who is financially independant, there are a lot of people who are struggling to live on minimum wage. Gives little motivation to people to work at all when they can claim state benefits.

[Carter78]

It's crazy, over here in Germany there is a huge debate about the minimum wage. Broadly, most parties are in favour of it, but the business friendly FDP (and to some extent the CDU/CSU - conservatives) are against it on the principle that hundreds of thousands of people would then find it *much harder* to find a job. Because employers cannot afford to pay the increased wages and would be unwilling to offers low-paid internships/positions to young people which are vital for achieving that first step on the career ladder.

I've carried out low-paid internships in Germany (400 euros a month) and barely scraped by, but in the UK employers know that they cannot afford to give positions to everyone, so they offer many internships that are *completely* unpaid. - They are unpaid because if they were to offer some wage, it would have to meet the minimum wage criteria.

Sure, the part-time jobs I had throughout my studies in England helped me to live - and this was only made possible by the minimum wage. However, once graduates leave University and start applying for internships, only then do they see the negative side of the introduction of the minimum wage - unpaid internships.

[Mr Dangermouse]

Before the minimum wage security guards security guards were having to work ridiculous hours to put food on the table. Keep it where it is.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Classical Liberal)
Lies, dammed lies, and then there are statistics.

Amen to that. I think there should be think tank with non-partisan/political statisticians dedicated to exposing problems with most of these studies.

[Annoying-Mouse]

Can't believe people are voting for increasing it. Do you realize how comfortable people can live on minimum wage with the right budgeting? It's not a hard knock life especially when we give people on minimum wage additional governmental benefits. Plus, you can't possibly be under the assumption that increasing minimum wage won't have a effect on pricing and that would just render it pointless. It's like suggesting we print more money to solve poverty. There's a optimal amount sure, which is why I agree with minimum wage laws but that optimal amount won't be what you're expecting.

[Classical Liberal]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Amen to that. I think there should be think tank with non-partisan/political statisticians dedicated to exposing problems with most of these studies.

Who is going to finance that?

[undertaker1]

(Original post by muddywaters51)
I do not think minimum wage laws should exist at all.

this

why should unskilled dumb low wage workers be protected. it's their fault for not working harder in life
I hate this culture in the UK where everyone should be equal. the people who work hard in life should also pay for others who don't by paying ridiculous levels of tax. All these stupid chavs who walk around all day, ain't a care in the world and are still able to wear all their ridiculously priced chavy clothes. clearly their receiving toooo much in benefits and/or wages.

no one has respect for each other because were all 'equal'. no respects the fantastic National Heath Service because its free. we are so lucky to have a free national health service but it doesn't get the appreciation it deserves.

lol at the neg reps, no wonder this country's getting worse

lmao at the neg reps, slave away people-- pay high taxes so others can waste it on fags, cheap cider and sweets/chocolates for their overweight kids

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Classical Liberal)
Who is going to finance that?

Doesn't need a lot of financing. Increase amount of statisticians = decrease hours hence they could have a regular/academic job that they have and fiance it.

[fire2burn]

No government is going to remove minimum wage laws, because that party would be comprehensively annihilated and punished by the electorate at the next election. The NHS and minimum wage are two policy areas which are basically untouchable in the UK. Any party which got rid of them would be out in the cold for a decade or more, all of the major parties know that. Hence why the Tories tip toe on the issue so much, based on their parties roots they have opposed the minimum wage and NHS in the past however they know that if they want to win elections saying they want to abolish them now is a sure fire way to lose an election. The minimum wage is here to stay, even if a few people grumble about it.

[PinkMobilePhone]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
The majority of OCED countries

OECD

or l'OCDE if you want to be French

[/me being pedantic]

(my mother worked there for 11 years so it's sort of drilled into me)

[Aspiringlawstudent]

Strongly against.

The freer the market, the freer the people. There should be no minimum wage laws at all, nor should there be minimum prices for goods or services.