[Richiboi]

well considering the cost of living is huge and property/rent prices are way too big, i'd say it's not enough.

businesses would want rid of the minimum wage though, typical...

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Richiboi)
well considering the cost of living is huge and property/rent prices are way too big, i'd say it's not enough.

businesses would want rid of the minimum wage though, typical...

Give me a case study (list salary, singe/married, amount of children if any, if partner is working) and I'll prove you wrong. It really is enough.

[Mutedmirth]

I bet the people against it has never relied on working in a low paid job in their lives.

If the minimum wage is abolished then I bet most people who want to work (not the workshy) will stay on benefits rather then work for 40 hours and still not being able to pay rent, tax, water, electricity, food, petrol ect. I wouldn't want to work for £3.00 per hour, as cost of living is high and wages are not reflecting that and would plummet if the minimum wage was scrapped.

People who want to work, will refuse a job if it's not going to cover their basic needs and a little extra.

And the only ones who will work for that amount are immigrants who will send the money to their country rather then putting it back into our economy.

Wage should reflect inflation to a point, at the moment with the recession it's a bit risky to increase, but it should never be scrapped.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Mutedmirth)
I bet the people against it has never relied on working in a low paid job in their lives.

If the minim wage is abolished then I bet most people who want to work (not the workshy) will stay on benefits rather then work for 40 hours and still not being able to pay rent, tax, water, electricity, food, petrol ect. I wouldn't want to work for £3.00 per hour, as cost of living is high and wages are not reflecting that and would plummet it the minim wage was scrapped.

People who want to work, will refuse a job if it's not going to cover their basic needs and a little extra.

And the only ones who will work for that amount are immigrants who will send the money to their country rather then putting it back into our economy.

Wage should reflect inflation to a point, at the moment with the recession it's a bit risky to increase, but it should never be scrapped.

This does not make sense. Why would a employer pay someone £3 an hour when this would lead them to not being able to afford food and shelter? No one would take such a job. Hence, the employer would be forced to increase pay. The only type of people who would take this job are people who it's a bonus to e.g. if you live with your family for free and only small business owners would be able to do this. Companies like Tesco/McDonalds/Asda would have unions and there would be collective bargaining as happens in countries like Italy/Sweden/Norway/Germany who don't have minimum wage laws and the majority are doing just well.

[KKKKatie]

while I don't think it should be raised, I think it's outrageous that someone aged 18-20 is paid so much less than someone over 21.

[iamyourspiritfrombeyondth]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Give me a case study (list salary, singe/married, amount of children if any, if partner is working) and I'll prove you wrong. It really is enough.

Single mother works full time on minimum wage (£243 a week). She lives in London and has two primary school age children. Rents a 2-bed flat which costs £200 a week (cheap for London).

[snowyowl]

Anyone who thinks minimum wage is too much/should be scrapped has probably never had to support themselves independently on a low-wage job.

[soempty]

Minimum wage? Lower it. Go die commies.

To be serious, minimal wage size depends on many factors, which you need to asses before making a decicision. For example it obviously makes sense to lower it when unemployment is high and economy is shrinking, so more people can get into jobs, even if they are lower paid they become economically active and benefit the economy. So you can't give a definite answer on that imo.

[Libertarian_Walrus]

Minimum wage shouldn't exist at all because it destroys jobs. No business will want to create a job that is worth below minimum wage. This makes it difficult for young people and low skilled people to get a job. Without the minimum wage there would be more jobs available so unemployment would decrease.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by iamyourspiritfrombeyondth)
Single mother works full time on minimum wage (£243 a week). She lives in London and has two primary school age children. Rents a 2-bed flat which costs £200 a week (cheap for London).

Alright.

A single mother with 2 children. She lives in Barking and rents, this house. Her Annual salary is £12,150. She's in Band C and has to pay £1176 in council tax. However, she qualifies for council tax benefits and only has to pay £20.94 per week. She's entitled to a working tax credit of £44.47 and a child tax credit of £113.68. She's also entitled to housing benefits worth up to £6,097.00. As well as Child benefits worth up to £1,757.21.

£10796.55 (post-tax salary)- £10400 (housing rent pay) = £396. £396 + £8,246.65 (tax credits from child + working tax credit) = £8,642.65 + £6,097.00 (housing benefits) = £14,739.65. £14,739.65 + £1,757.21 (child benefits) = £16,496.86. £16,496.86 - £4000 (annual cost of bills) = £12,496.86 - £4000 (annual cost of food) = £8,496.86. £8,496.86 - £720 (annually cost of Sky + broadband + phone bill) = £7,776.86. = £7,776.86 -£2000 (annual cost of clothes) = £5,776.86

With the amount left, you can pay for cost of car insurance + petrol (or yearly transport on all zones) and a holiday as well as game consoles, little family trips on day offs and possibly upgrade furniture/beds/paint house.

[That Bearded Man]

(Original post by undertaker1)
this

why should unskilled dumb low wage workers be protected. it's their fault for not working harder in life
I hate this culture in the UK where everyone should be equal. the people who work hard in life should also pay for others who don't by paying ridiculous levels of tax. All these stupid chavs who walk around all day, ain't a care in the world and are still able to wear all their ridiculously priced chavy clothes. clearly their receiving toooo much in benefits and/or wages.

no one has respect for each other because were all 'equal'. no respects the fantastic National Heath Service because its free. we are so lucky to have a free national health service but it doesn't get the appreciation it deserves.

lol at the neg reps, no wonder this country's getting worse

As for your neg reps, I suspect it would be for your demonising of those on benefits. I strongly believe in equality (though I agree about the unappreciated NHS)

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by Libertarian_Walrus)
Minimum wage shouldn't exist at all because it destroys jobs. No business will want to create a job that is worth below minimum wage. This makes it difficult for young people and low skilled people to get a job. Without the minimum wage there would be more jobs available so unemployment would decrease.

Such a simplistic argument. If you take time to read the wikipedia link on minimum wage you'd see the problem with it. We also have apprenticeships already for young people that are sub-minimum wage. There are plenty of jobs that are low-skilled and don't require much at all e.g. Fast-food/Retail jobs and they are in line with minimum wage. Germany don't have minimum wage and our employment level are fairly similar and only beats us by 1% and we're doing better than Italy which again doesn't have minimum wage laws by 1%. The reason why employment is currently this high is because of the recession and we never reach full employment and minimum wage scrapping won't do much to help reach it.

[That Bearded Man]

I strongly resent workplaces where the jobs go to people under the age of 18 because they are cheaper, there should be a fixed minimum wage for everyone who's in the same boat. i.e those with excellent experience should command a higher wage, however newcomers should all be entitled to the same wage

[That Bearded Man]

(Original post by Mutedmirth)
I bet the people against it has never relied on working in a low paid job in their lives.

If the minimum wage is abolished then I bet most people who want to work (not the workshy) will stay on benefits rather then work for 40 hours and still not being able to pay rent, tax, water, electricity, food, petrol ect. I wouldn't want to work for £3.00 per hour, as cost of living is high and wages are not reflecting that and would plummet if the minimum wage was scrapped.

People who want to work, will refuse a job if it's not going to cover their basic needs and a little extra.

And the only ones who will work for that amount are immigrants who will send the money to their country rather then putting it back into our economy.

Wage should reflect inflation to a point, at the moment with the recession it's a bit risky to increase, but it should never be scrapped.

You cannot abolish the minimum wage without cutting benefits, otherwise you are simply pushing more people towards them

[That Bearded Man]

(Original post by fire2burn)
No government is going to remove minimum wage laws, because that party would be comprehensively annihilated and punished by the electorate at the next election. The NHS and minimum wage are two policy areas which are basically untouchable in the UK. Any party which got rid of them would be out in the cold for a decade or more, all of the major parties know that. Hence why the Tories tip toe on the issue so much, based on their parties roots they have opposed the minimum wage and NHS in the past however they know that if they want to win elections saying they want to abolish them now is a sure fire way to lose an election. The minimum wage is here to stay, even if a few people grumble about it.

And yet the Tories are fiddling with the NHS?

I.e Virgin health care?

[Carter78]

(Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
Such a simplistic argument. If you take time to read the wikipedia link on minimum wage you'd see the problem with it. We also have apprenticeships already for young people that are sub-minimum wage. There are plenty of jobs that are low-skilled and don't require much at all e.g. Fast-food/Retail jobs and they are in line with minimum wage. Germany don't have minimum wage and our employment level are fairly similar and only beats us by 1% and we're doing better than Italy which again doesn't have minimum wage laws by 1%. The reason why employment is currently this high is because of the recession and we never reach full employment and minimum wage scrapping won't do much to help reach it.

However Germany has a strong culture of low-paid internships. These people are technically employed but are obviously not earning enough to reasonably live on. (The standard intern wage is 400 euros a month). - I'm speaking from personal experience here.

Plus people on benefits in Germany are sometimes put into "One Euro Jobs" where they do menial jobs (cleaners, kitchen staff in Uni cafeterias) for ONE EURO an hour. So yes whilst the German unemployment rate is low, there are huge swathes of the population barely scraping by because of their very low income level.

Germany needs the minimum wage, badly!

Signed,
Ex-pat Berliner.

[Rananagirl]

It's a shame that there's a discrepancy between 18-21-year-olds, but I can't see that changing any time soon.

It does terrify me, though, that Apprentice Minimum Wage (£2.60) is allowable at all. Apprenticeships in general need to be much more stringently regulated, and if the wage is going to be that low, hours need to be limited. (I say this as somebody who spent 3 months working 48 hour weeks for £2.60 an hour and learning nothing...)

[captainaesthetic]

I'm two sided on the issue.

Firstly, in terms of intervention in the market, it is blindingly obvious that it causes unemployment and there are obvious problems associated with that. This in itself is enough for me to be economically against it.

Then there's the personal advantage; i'm a 17 year old who is part time employed, from my perspective, an increase of the minimum wage simply translates to having more income. To be frank, I really don't care about the grand scheme of things and it causing more unemployment. It's just more money in my pocket and that's about it.

[A.J10]

I'm no economic expert, and so I can't really say what the effects of the minimum wage are, but for what it's worth I believe that the minimum wage, in this economic climate, should not be lowered drastically.

With no minimum wage, yes unemployment will probably go down, but thier pay might not be high enough to sustain themselves.

I also believe that the minimum wage for 16-18 year olds should be brought in line with that of 18+. I see no reason for it to be lower.

[prog2djent]

It applies to different situations, during a recession, I feel that the laws should be relaxed, though I think to claim the min wage is a complete job destroyer doesn't carry much weight, I certarinly think this is more true during Recessions/Slumps, companies are not going to want to employ people who's market value, productivity and quality of work does not justify an artificial value, I should know, I have worked for below min wage twice, if these companies were forced to pay the price, these jobs wouldn't exist.

However during better economic conditions, I believe it has some place to prevent exploitation at the bottom end when a comany really can afford for someone to meet the artificial market value.