Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?
Discuss issues related to the politics of the UK, such as the actions of any MP, any current or potential law, or any other factor affecting the British political system.
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?If they have not committed a crime, the state has no authority to take their assets. That is theft. Once a state starts ignoring its own laws, it has taken the first steps down the path to tyranny.
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?So man A on 50k per year pays 40% taxes on his earnings above 40k whilst man B pays 20% on his earnings above 40% you think it is fair that one pays more than the other?(Original post by Steevee)
But the issue here being that you do not pay less than others for those services. Infact you are being told to pay far, far more than the majority of others for services, statistics say, you are far less likely to use. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?You undermine this in your own argument by asserting that the state is comprised of citizens. So whilst you are correct in stating the institution itself is not a living organism, the fact that it is governed by humans makes it so. Now taking that into consideration, if you advocate or propose that the state takes ownership of a particular asset or deals justice to an individual or set of individuals, you are personifying the state. Therefore, it is hypocrisy.(Original post by internetguru)
How is it hypocrisy? The state is not a citizen. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?The state acts on behalf of the majority whereas an individual taking matters into their own hands is only acting on the interests of the minority. The idea of democracy is the majority rules not the minority.(Original post by ANARCHY__)
You undermine this in your own argument by asserting that the state is comprised of citizens. So whilst you are correct in stating the institution itself is not a living organism, the fact that it is governed by humans makes it so. Now taking that into consideration, if you advocate or propose that the state takes ownership of a particular asset or deals justice to an individual or set of individuals, you are personifying the state. Therefore, it is hypocrisy. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?The state must take actions to ensure its survival otherwise it will collapse.(Original post by chrisawhitmore)
If they have not committed a crime, the state has no authority to take their assets. That is theft. Once a state starts ignoring its own laws, it has taken the first steps down the path to tyranny. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?Wait, how can a state have the authority to declare someone a criminal and set laws yet not make taxation legal?(Original post by chrisawhitmore)
If they have not committed a crime, the state has no authority to take their assets. That is theft. Once a state starts ignoring its own laws, it has taken the first steps down the path to tyranny. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?So shall we have a poll then? Who here actually thinks it's correct for the state or any other institutionalised body to impose the sort of measures you've put forward? Based on the current response, it seems like you've had a vehement rejection.(Original post by internetguru)
The state acts on behalf of the majority whereas an individual taking matters into their own hands is only acting on the interests of the minority. The idea of democracy is the majority rules not the minority.
It still doesn't answer the fact that you were being hypocritical by the way. If you hadn't noticed, seizure of property and suspension of habeas corpus hasn't been in effect since the 19th century. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?Yes, if you're legally able to pay less(Original post by internetguru)
So man A on 50k per year pays 40% taxes on his earnings above 40k whilst man B pays 20% on his earnings above 40% you think it is fair that one pays more than the other?
But my real issue is with the people who earn around the national average, take more from the state than they will ever put in and still have the gall to talk about richer people 'owing' the State something. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?The argument is, if it is legal to avoid taxation, then arresting or seizing assets of the people who avoid it is illegal. Therefore, the state is committing an illegal act. Therefore the state is undermining its own rule of law.(Original post by creak)
Wait, how can a state have the authority to declare someone a criminal and set laws yet not make taxation legal? -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?I seem to have started reading half way through the thread, in context it makes more sense.(Original post by ANARCHY__)
The argument is, if it is legal to avoid taxation, then arresting or seizing assets of the people who avoid it is illegal. Therefore, the state is committing an illegal act. Therefore the state is undermining its own rule of law. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?This forum is too liberal for people to agree with being tough on crime. SO because something hasn't been done for a long time it should never be done? There was probably a point where tax rates hadn't been lowered for a long time therefore they should never be lowered?(Original post by ANARCHY__)
So shall we have a poll then? Who here actually thinks it's correct for the state or any other institutionalised body to impose the sort of measures you've put forward? Based on the current response, it seems like you've had a vehement rejection.
It still doesn't answer the fact that you were being hypocritical by the way. If you hadn't noticed, seizure of property and suspension of habeas corpus hasn't been in effect since the 19th century. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?(Original post by Steevee)
Yes, if you're legally able to pay less
But my real issue is with the people who earn around the national average, take more from the state than they will ever put in and still have the gall to talk about richer people 'owing' the State something.
Stop with the chip on the shoulder attitude. We have the people whose parents are poor complaining about the rich and the people whose parents are rich complaining about the poor. Reality check people we don't live in communist Russia and we don't like in the lawless wild west, we are modern democratic state so just get a job and pay your taxes like everyone else. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?Yes, there was. Sorry, but I am having a really tough time understanding your motives. I agree that this shouldn't go on and in fact explicitly stated so at the beginning. So have a lot of other posters. Nobody has denied that this is a crime and nobody has denied that it needs to be tackled. Where we differ is that you propose that we reduce these people to penniless, destitute denizens with the possibility of stringing these people up by punishing those who have offended the law retrospectively. I can only think of one incident in my mind where a newly formed law has punished the offenders retrospectively and that being at the Nuremberg Trials.(Original post by internetguru)
This forum is too liberal for people to agree with being tough on crime. SO because something hasn't been done for a long time it should never be done? There was probably a point where tax rates hadn't been lowered for a long time therefore they should never be lowered?
If you want to compare tax dodgers to Nazis, be my guest but it quite clearly shows a high level of psychosis about your person. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?We live in a liberal democracy, with the right to complain about tax rates, and the legal right to not be persecuted should we find away to avoid those taxes within the sphere of legality.(Original post by internetguru)
Stop with the chip on the shoulder attitude. We have the people whose parents are poor complaining about the rich and the people whose parents are rich complaining about the poor. Reality check people we don't live in communist Russia and we don't like in the lawless wild west, we are modern democratic state so just get a job and pay your taxes like everyone else. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?Laws do not apply to the state as it is not a person. It is what the creationists might call omnipresent. The laws do not apply to it, it is everywhere at once and it can do what it likes.(Original post by ANARCHY__)
The argument is, if it is legal to avoid taxation, then arresting or seizing assets of the people who avoid it is illegal. Therefore, the state is committing an illegal act. Therefore the state is undermining its own rule of law. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?Then I also have the right to manipulate self defence laws so that I can beat people up without consequence.(Original post by Steevee)
We live in a liberal democracy, with the right to complain about tax rates, and the legal right to not be persecuted should we find away to avoid those taxes within the sphere of legality. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?This confirms my prognosis of psychosis.(Original post by internetguru)
Laws do not apply to the state as it is not a person. It is what the creationists might call omnipresent. The laws do not apply to it, it is everywhere at once and it can do what it likes. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?Something can't just go from being right one day to being wrong the next day it will either always be wrong or always be right. Therefore it is justified to punish those that did it before it was put into law.(Original post by ANARCHY__)
Yes, there was. Sorry, but I am having a really tough time understanding your motives. I agree that this shouldn't go on and in fact explicitly stated so at the beginning. So have a lot of other posters. Nobody has denied that this is a crime and nobody has denied that it needs to be tackled. Where we differ is that you propose that we reduce these people to penniless, destitute denizens with the possibility of stringing these people up by punishing those who have offended the law retrospectively. I can only think of one incident in my mind where a newly formed law has punished the offenders retrospectively and that being at the Nuremberg Trials.
If you want to compare tax dodgers to Nazis, be my guest but it quite clearly shows a high level of psychosis about your person. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?I really hope you're not studying philosophy. There is no such thing as absolute morality. Then again, given your fanaticism, I wouldn't be surprised if you were some kind of religious zealot.(Original post by internetguru)
Something can't just go from being right one day to being wrong the next day it will either always be wrong or always be right. Therefore it is justified to punish those that did it before it was put into law. -
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Re: Should tax avoiders/evaders have their assets taken from them?You don't judge past actions on the morality of the time you judge it on the morality of the here and now.(Original post by ANARCHY__)
I really hope you're not studying philosophy. There is no such thing as absolute morality. Then again, given your fanaticism, I wouldn't be surprised if you were some kind of religious zealot.
