Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?
Discuss religious, spiritual, and theological issues concerning Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion.
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Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?Although Islam has one all ruling book to follow, there are approx 34 differing schools of thought under the umbrellas of sunni, shia and sufi islam and then countless more other sects (fair estimate according to wiki is 15)
On TSR many muslims will explain that islam can only be practiced in correct form in a sharia state - however all aknowledge that no such system actually exists, or have any of the 1.6 billion muslims made efforts to implement the sharia system.
And we know even from spending a short time on TSR that various muslims here cant even agree on various points and interpretations of islamic rules and the quran.
So the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Islam doesnt actually exist. What does exist? Various people around the world practicing old rituals and traditions as they themselves see fit and convienient?
Im interested to hear other views, if you have an alternative opinion , you can articulate it on this thread. If you agree and cant think of an alternative logical argument to the contrary , feel free not to post but neg. -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?If that were the case, then no academic discipline or religion or school of thought could be said to exist.(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Although Islam has one all ruling book to follow, there are approx 34 differing schools of thought under the umbrellas of sunni, shia and sufi islam and then countless more other sects (fair estimate according to wiki is 15)
On TSR many muslims will explain that islam can only be practiced in correct form in a sharia state - however all aknowledge that no such system actually exists, or have any of the 1.6 billion muslims made efforts to implement the sharia system.
And we know even from spending a short time on TSR that various muslims here cant even agree on various points and interpretations of islamic rules and the quran.
So the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Islam doesnt actually exist. What does exist? Various people around the world practicing old rituals and traditions as they themselves see fit and convienient?
Im interested to hear other views, if you have an alternative opinion , you can articulate it on this thread. If you agree and cant think of an alternative logical argument to the contrary , feel free not to post but neg. -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?academic disciplines(largely) can be proven and standardised (ie medicine, mechancal engineering) but they dont claim to be derived from one single infalliable book do they? so variation can be tollerated becuase neither is a single ideology(Original post by Hylean)
If that were the case, then no academic discipline or religion or school of thought could be said to exist.
It may apply to other religions too, but that isnt the subject of this thread, so stay on topic. Islam specifies the quran and sharia law to be the only correct source and application of islam and therefore way of life- yet neither is used uniformly amoungst 1.6 billion muslims.Last edited by Indo-Chinese Food; 24-05-2012 at 21:19. -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?buddihism is about acheiving individual internal balance with the cosmos, islam is about following what is written in one book (the quran) -(Original post by abdiz12)
Does Christianity exist, or does Judaism exist, or does Buddhism exist for that matter? The latter with 20 schools.
so there is a difference -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?(Original post by AntisthenesDogger)
No. Islam exists. Apocryphal that many whom claim to be "Muslim" follow the tenets in to what defines a Muslim though.
So your assertion is islam exists, but there are no muslims? -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?Islam exists as a cultural movement with many sub-groups. Islam isn't the precise beliefs and tenants of individual or small groups, but rather Islam itself is the agglomeration. Every metaculture has many varied subcultures but that diversity is tautologically, a characteristic of metaculture.
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?None of us are perfect and so none of us really follow Islam perfectly but the fundamentals that make you a muslim are the 5 pillars of Islam (which i'm sure you can wiki up too, because that's such a great source for Islamic knowledge) with the first and most important being a person's belief in Islam and prophet Mohammed(pbuh) is the messenger of allah.(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Although Islam has one all ruling book to follow, there are approx 34 differing schools of thought under the umbrellas of sunni, shia and sufi islam and then countless more other sects (fair estimate according to wiki is 15)
On TSR many muslims will explain that islam can only be practiced in correct form in a sharia state - however all aknowledge that no such system actually exists, or have any of the 1.6 billion muslims made efforts to implement the sharia system.
And we know even from spending a short time on TSR that various muslims here cant even agree on various points and interpretations of islamic rules and the quran.
So the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Islam doesnt actually exist. What does exist? Various people around the world practicing old rituals and traditions as they themselves see fit and convienient?
Im interested to hear other views, if you have an alternative opinion , you can articulate it on this thread. If you agree and cant think of an alternative logical argument to the contrary , feel free not to post but neg.
Also, there are only 4 "MAJOR" schools of law in Islam.Last edited by uxa595; 24-05-2012 at 21:23. -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?No. I said it was doubtful many people who practice, are by definition of what their tenets define as "Muslim" actually Muslims. You can't pick and choose with religion, you either follow it or you don't.(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
So your assertion is islam exists, but there are no muslims? -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?No religion really exists, they are just made up stories about an imaginery being too complicated for us life forms to understand. However, the choice to decide what you believe in remains yours, and yours only...
To sum up, Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism etc. don't exist because they are simply false.
peace out. -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?This is something we call 'religion'. For whatever reason, it's a bigger deal that it sounds.(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
What does exist? Various people around the world practicing old rituals and traditions as they themselves see fit and convienient?
Christianity is exactly the same, with multiple varieties, each one shaped by the desires and needs of the people (and rulers) in countries where they're practised. It's just not possible for a belief system to remain exactly as it originated over the periods of time involved. It may be a slow process, but in the long run religion fits itself to what people need rather than vice versa. -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?thats not necessarrily true or that simple- ie ahmadiyya, moorish science muslims etc are not universally agreed upon in terms of practicing islam or not.(Original post by Dhaal_Chawal)
Islam = belief that Allah is the only God and that Muhammad is his final prophet. So yes, it does exist as over a billion believe this. -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?(Original post by patrickinator)
No religion really exists, they are just made up stories about an imaginery being too complicated for us life forms to understand. However, the choice to decide what you believe in remains yours, and yours only...
To sum up, Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism etc. don't exist because they are simply false.
peace out.
uniform beliefs in higher powers can exist. The question is that if islam defines itslef as a idelogical structure that noone seemingly chooses to follow, does it exist anymore? -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?For those who do not believe - no explanation is possible. For those who believe - no explanation is necessary.
There are also many sects in christianity, it doesn't make it any less likely to be real I don't think.
Anyway, as long as they believe in it then who cares if it's real or not? If nobody believed in a God or an afterlife with a judgement day then I don't think the world would be a very nice place to live to be honest.
I should probably add that I'm agnostic. -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?So you are saying islam is now shaped by the desires of its rulers? Then surely it has ceased to be 'Islam'(Original post by Chumbaniya)
This is something we call 'religion'. For whatever reason, it's a bigger deal that it sounds.
Christianity is exactly the same, with multiple varieties, each one shaped by the desires and needs of the people (and rulers) in countries where they're practised. It's just not possible for a belief system to remain exactly as it originated over the periods of time involved. It may be a slow process, but in the long run religion fits itself to what people need rather than vice versa. -
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Re: Around 1.6 billion claim to be muslim - but does Islam even exist?Why is it Islam specifically that's your concern? There isn't a major religion in the world that isn't shaped by its rulers. This is how religion works.(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
So you are saying islam is now shaped by the desires of its rulers? Then surely it has ceased to be 'Islam'
