[. . .]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
the quran and sunnah contain the template for the sharia system - but no muslim has ever implemented it - all 1.6 billion practice as 'muslims' under a non sharia framework

No but does it specifically say that you have to live in a country which implements sharia law.

[M Kh]

(Original post by . . .)
Interesting. But surely there must be a few out there who truly believe in it. I mean personally I believe that the vast majority are doing it for face value but there are a few out there who truly do believe.

This goes for all religions that believe in a heaven/hell afterlife not just Islam.

I practice ISLAM and I know many people who do.

[. . .]

(Original post by M Kh)
ME - I believe in ALLAH, PRAY 5 times a day, fast. I know many people who do practice ISLAM. Now you will decide if I am a muslim or not?? Are you the one who will reward us on the DAY OF JUDGEMENT?

Have you ever missed a prayer since you started being held accountable for your actions?

[DarkTitan]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
no clearly the quran and mohammed have decided what islam is - whoever actually intentionally follows them is a muslim. but who does?

How do you know they don't?

[M Kh]

(Original post by . . .)
Have you ever missed a prayer since you've hit puberty (or whenever you start being held accountable for them)?

Yes, due to unusual circumstances, I have. But I have always repented and then prayed the missing prayer in the earliest opportunity. My brothers pray 5 times a day at masjid (mosque). We all wake up for the morning prayer before dawn (at around 3:30 nowadays), pray and then sleep again. And by the way, I have to go and pray the evening prayer now.

[abdiz12]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
no clearly the quran and mohammed have decided what islam is - whoever actually intentionally follows them is a muslim. but who does?

A Muslim is whoever submits to the will of Allah willingly or unwillingly, but being a 'Believer' is something totally different in Islam and it's a higher level. I think that's what you were getting to, that a lot of the Muslims aren't at that stage, but it's never good to speak about a topic your ignorant in. Proof: The bedouins say: "We believe." Say: "You believe not but you only say, 'We have surrendered (in Islam),' for Faith has not yet entered your hearts. But if you obey Allah and His Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم), He will not decrease anything in reward for your deeds. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Al-Hujraat, Chapter #49, Verse #14. Submitted been translated here Surrendered. So therefore if a Muslim does the 5 pillars and stays from evil, he'll/she'll be admitted into Paradise. I hope you understand now.

[M Kh]

(Original post by abdiz12)
So it's you who decides if someone is a Muslim or not?

Very good point indeed.

[. . .]

(Original post by M Kh)
Yes, due to unusual circumstances, I have. But I have always repented and then prayed the missing prayer in the earliest opportunity. My brothers pray 5 times a day at masjid (mosque). We all wake up for the morning prayer before dawn (at around 3:30 nowadays), pray and then sleep again. And by the way, I have to go and pray the evening prayer now.

How many of the 1.6 billion Muslims do you think also do this. Just a guesstimate.

[M Kh]

(Original post by . . .)
Have you ever missed a prayer since you started being held accountable for your actions?

See previous post.

[Coffeegirl]

I don't think we have any right to judge a person's relationship with God. We cannot say whether the religion exists or not because that would be personal

[sabre2th1]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Although Islam has one all ruling book to follow, there are approx 34 differing schools of thought under the umbrellas of sunni, shia and sufi islam and then countless more other sects (fair estimate according to wiki is 15)

On TSR many muslims will explain that islam can only be practiced in correct form in a sharia state - however all aknowledge that no such system actually exists, or have any of the 1.6 billion muslims made efforts to implement the sharia system.

And we know even from spending a short time on TSR that various muslims here cant even agree on various points and interpretations of islamic rules and the quran.

So the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Islam doesnt actually exist. What does exist? Various people around the world practicing old rituals and traditions as they themselves see fit and convienient?

Im interested to hear other views, if you have an alternative opinion , you can articulate it on this thread. If you agree and cant think of an alternative logical argument to the contrary , feel free not to post but neg.

Well there is the famous hadith that says Islam will split into 73 (or 72 I forgot which one) sects and only one of them will be the correct one. Also you claiming no Muslims are trying to implement Shariah is a clear lie.

[. . .]

(Original post by M Kh)
See previous post.

Your previous post states "Very good point indeed."

[sabre2th1]

(Original post by . . .)
How many of the 1.6 billion Muslims do you think also do this. Just a guesstimate.

Any guesses would be highly unreliable.

[Perseveranze]

It's like talking to a 10 year old.

1. Islam is "a way of life", you can live in the UK and in any other and still practice Islam as the Prophet(pbuh) and the Qur'an teach. You don't need a Caliphate/Islamic state to not be able to practice Islam.

2. You make the best of your situation. If your in the middle of the forest and you don't know what time prayer is, you just guess and pray. It will still be accepted and does not detract from your practice of Islam. Intentions are what count the most in our faith.

[M Kh]

(Original post by . . .)
How many of the 1.6 billion Muslims do you think also do this. Just a guesstimate.

I know I do. My family does. In the country where I live, Friday prayer is the best time of the week. My brother says, when he goes to the masjid (mosque), there are many men wo come regularly for their prayers since about when he started going to the masjid. Women mostly pray at home so I am not sure about stranger women. I go to the masjid for the friday prayer only. I pray the rest of the prayers at home. Most of the women go to masjid for the Friday prayer only and pray the remaining prayers at home. When I go to the mosque for the Friday prayer, I know many women who are very regular in their prayers and they go to the masjid every friday since when I started going. In Arab countries, people are very very regular in their prayers as far as I have seen, especially in Saudi Arabia. When I visited the TWO HOLY MASJIDS there, hundreds of thousands of muslims used to go and pray there 5 times a day. I used to spend all day in THE HOLY MASJIDS with my mother and read the Qur'an and pray because I loved it there.

[. . .]

(Original post by sabre2th1)
Any guesses would be highly unreliable.

Good job. Dodge the question.

Lets be honest here quiet a few "Muslims" miss a lot of prayers in their lifetimes which they do not account for.

[M Kh]

(Original post by sabre2th1)
Well there is the famous hadith that says Islam will split into 73 (or 72 I forgot which one) sects and only one of them will be the correct one. Also you claiming no Muslims are trying to implement Shariah is a clear lie.

Thanks for clarifying.

[M Kh]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
It's like talking to a 10 year old.

1. Islam is "a way of life", you can live in the UK and in any other and still practice Islam as the Prophet(pbuh) and the Qur'an teach. You don't need a Caliphate/Islamic state to not be able to practice Islam.

2. You make the best of your situation. If your in the middle of the forest and you don't know what time prayer is, you just guess and pray. It will still be accepted and does not detract from your practice of Islam. Intentions are what count the most in our faith.

That's what was in my mind.

[. . .]

(Original post by M Kh)
I know I do. My family does. In the country where I live, Friday prayer is the best time of the week. My brother says, when he goes to the masjid (mosque), there are many men wo come regularly for their prayers since about when he started going to the masjid. Women mostly pray at home so I am not sure about stranger women. I go to the masjid for the friday prayer only. I pray the rest of the prayers at home. Most of the women go to masjid for the Friday prayer only and pray the remaining prayers at home. When I go to the mosque for the Friday prayer, I know many women who are very regular in their prayers and they go to the masjid every friday since when I started going. In Arab countries, people are very very regular in their prayers as far as I have seen, especially in Saudi Arabia. When I visited the TWO HOLY MASJIDS there, hundreds of thousands of muslims used to go and pray there 5 times a day. I used to spend all day in THE HOLY MASJIDS with my mother and read the Qur'an and pray because I loved it there.

Okay I get it nearly all the muslims do not miss a single prayer.

[blueray]

(Original post by Dhaal_Chawal)
Islam = belief that Allah is the only God and that Muhammad is his final prophet. So yes, it does exist as over a billion believe this.

No that's the sunni belief, not the ahmedy.