[lp94]

There didn't seem to be a thread for our exam and I thought we deserved to have one. Post your advice/questions here and good luck in the exams on Tuesday and Thursday! Here's an emoticon which reminded me of Augustus . . .

[lp94]

I have a question anyhow and I hope to god someone can help me because I've been asking every possible person about it. Basically, how the **** do you answer this question in relation to Unit 3C Greek Tragedy:
Greek tragic playwrights normally used mythological stories to discuss issues of contemporary relevance. What do you think the advantages and disadvantages of this convention were, for both playwright and audience? You should support your discussion by reference to the texts of the four plays you have read.

Any help/notes/essay plans would be much appreciated. This question was on the 2007 specimen paper and as far as I know it hasn't been set yet.

[ndx]

(Original post by lp94)
I have a question anyhow and I hope to god someone can help me because I've been asking every possible person about it. Basically, how the **** do you answer this question in relation to Unit 3C Greek Tragedy:
Greek tragic playwrights normally used mythological stories to discuss issues of contemporary relevance. What do you think the advantages and disadvantages of this convention were, for both playwright and audience? You should support your discussion by reference to the texts of the four plays you have read.

Any help/notes/essay plans would be much appreciated. This question was on the 2007 specimen paper and as far as I know it hasn't been set yet.

My teacher actually set us something similar for homework - ‘The fact that the audience knew the plot of a tragedy was more of a help than a problem to Greek tragedians.’ How far you agree with this statement?

I don't have it on me (it's on my school computer) but I can briefly remember what I wrote. I basically said that in Oedipus, already knowing the myth built up tension which added to the catharsis. Also, you can say that the play using a familiar story enables Sophocles to be much more subtle. The use of tragic irony is very poetic. Similarly, in Antigone, tension is built up as we wait for Creon's punishment.

In Medea, the audience know what she is capable of which gives a dangerous atomsphere. Euripides is also able to slightly manipulate the myth - we know she has supernatural powers and is evil yet he manages to make her character quite reasonable (to an extent). Can't remember what I wrote for Hippolytus but again, Euripides bases the story on a myth but manages to make the audience sympathise with Phaedra when you may not have thought this possible.

As for disadvantages, I suppose in Sophocles there's less of an element of surprise and shock really adds to catharsis. That's all I can think of. Hope I've helped a bit, it's a horrible question. Really hope it doesn't come up!

[lp94]

(Original post by ndx)
My teacher actually set us something similar for homework - ‘The fact that the audience knew the plot of a tragedy was more of a help than a problem to Greek tragedians.’ How far you agree with this statement?

I don't have it on me (it's on my school computer) but I can briefly remember what I wrote. I basically said that in Oedipus, already knowing the myth built up tension which added to the catharsis. Also, you can say that the play using a familiar story enables Sophocles to be much more subtle. The use of tragic irony is very poetic. Similarly, in Antigone, tension is built up as we wait for Creon's punishment.

In Medea, the audience know what she is capable of which gives a dangerous atomsphere. Euripides is also able to slightly manipulate the myth - we know she has supernatural powers and is evil yet he manages to make her character quite reasonable (to an extent). Can't remember what I wrote for Hippolytus but again, Euripides bases the story on a myth but manages to make the audience sympathise with Phaedra when you may not have thought this possible.

As for disadvantages, I suppose in Sophocles there's less of an element of surprise and shock really adds to catharsis. That's all I can think of. Hope I've helped a bit, it's a horrible question. Really hope it doesn't come up!

Okay, thanks - that's definitely helpful. I kind of knew that you'd need to talk about dramatic irony and how it builds tension but I wasn't sure what else really - writing a 40 mark essay on this is a little daunting. I sincerely hope it isn't one of our questions . I might try and put together an essay plan based on what you've said. Thank you!

[lp94]

(Original post by ndx)
In Medea, the audience know what she is capable of which gives a dangerous atomsphere. Euripides is also able to slightly manipulate the myth - we know she has supernatural powers and is evil yet he manages to make her character quite reasonable (to an extent). Can't remember what I wrote for Hippolytus but again, Euripides bases the story on a myth but manages to make the audience sympathise with Phaedra when you may not have thought this possible.

Also, in the original myth Medea never kills her sons does she?
So you could say that by placing such an emphasis on the theme of children, Euripides explores the contemporary issues surrounding children/motherhood.

And in the original Phaedra story, Phaedra is presented as a wily, evil stepmother who tries to seduce Hippolytus - Euripides actually wrote the play like this but that version wasn't very popular so he rewrote the character of Phaedra into the version we've read. By presenting her as a more virtuous woman (with the exception of her allegations against Hippolytus), he increases our sympathies for her and highlights the gulf between the male and female worlds.

[ndx]

(Original post by lp94)
Also, in the original myth Medea never kills her sons does she?
So you could say that by placing such an emphasis on the theme of children, Euripides explores the contemporary issues surrounding children/motherhood.

And in the original Phaedra story, Phaedra is presented as a wily, evil stepmother who tries to seduce Hippolytus - Euripides actually wrote the play like this but that version wasn't very popular so he rewrote the character of Phaedra into the version we've read. By presenting her as a more virtuous woman (with the exception of her allegations against Hippolytus), he increases our sympathies for her and highlights the gulf between the male and female worlds.

Yeah, that's true. He also allows us to sympathise with Medea - she rationally complains about how difficult it is being a women, being a foreigner and giving birth etc which also increases sympathies for women.

I just hope that question doesn't come up. I hated doing it at school and found it really difficult to write. I hope there's just a nice theme question!

[lp94]

(Original post by ndx)
Yeah, that's true. He also allows us to sympathise with Medea - she rationally complains about how difficult it is being a women, being a foreigner and giving birth etc which also increases sympathies for women.

I just hope that question doesn't come up. I hated doing it at school and found it really difficult to write. I hope there's just a nice theme question!

Yeah, by emphasising her gender and her foreignness he explores them as contemporary issues in the society in which he was writing.

I don't know actually - I've made some notes on it and researched the original mythology of each of the plays and I'm finding it quite interesting! I just think it's a difficult question because you actually need to know what the original myth was and how the playwright changed it, which isn't actually on the specification as far as I know.

I'd love a nice question on the gods, which hasn't been set before. But I know in the past they've set both questions on the dramaturgy rather than content of the plays. I really hope we get one of each!

[Rhee_x]

I'm doing tragedy for CIV3 too! Seems to be one of the more popular options.

I'd really hate a question on the use of myths, possibly one of the worst things they could ask for me

I would really like a question on the gods, they've asked about sin and punishment in the past and also about fate. I think those would be alright questions. They've asked about the household a lot in the past but as that came up last year that probably won't come up.

I reckon they could ask us about the beginning/ending of the plays. In June 2010 they asked about the openings, and asked about endings on the old spec so they could ask it again this year?

For Section A - they've asked questions on Hippolytus two years in a row, I reckon we might get Medea and Oedipus (which also hasn't been up in the new spec).

Is anyone else doing Tiberius and Claudius for Unit 4?

[ndx]

It's so hard to predict what they'll ask for the essay question I could definitely see them doing a question on the ending which would be okay because you could write about catastrophe at the end of each play. A myth question would be awful and one I'd try to avoid. The question last year about the number of actors on the stage - horrible!

I noticed too that Hippolytus has come up in the last few years. I'm certain Oedipus is going to come up so I'm going to read it and write out the exact plot as many times as possible because they'll probably focus on his conversation with either Creon or Tiresias and ask maybe who he was speaking to and what circumstances have led to this. If Medea comes up, it could be her speaking her to literally anyone! Maybe it'll be her conversations with Creon or Aegeus?

[Rhee_x]

Last years was horrible! Atleast it's pretty likely we won't get that!
I much prefer the theme questions over the dramatic conventions one, hopefully they give us one of each :/

I think Oedipus will come up too. I'd like a question with Teiresias because then you could talk a lot about fate and divination. If Medea comes up I'm not sure what they'd use, In 2010 they used Creon's speech to Medea telling her she is to be banished. Maybe this year they might use one from Medea herself? Or maybe Jason? I don't think I'd like a question on Medea, I think I'd choose the other option if it came up!

They seem to ask a lot of questions of how charactersitic certain speeches are or 'turning-points' so maybe they will give us something along those lines.

I'm so glad we have a choice in both sections though!

[ndx]

With Oedipus, they could also ask of this speech reflected him as a character. That would be quite a good question because you could say he has a temper and is impulsive but then also praise the way he accepted his fate etc. The question about Medea was a turning point one I think? Yeah, I could see them using a speech from her or Jason which wouldn't be too bad. I wish Hippolytus was going to come up, its my favourtie!

So do I! There are so many possible questions, I'm going to end up spending all weekend writing them all up. Fun :/ Knowing my luck they'll ask 2 questions I didn't even think of!

[Rhee_x]

Hippolytus is my favourite too! It could still come up :/

I know! I've done all the major themes but I can just see them asking something completley out of the box and the other question being on myths or something equally as bad :/

It's so annoying how close the two exams are too

[ndx]

That's what annoys me! The tragedy paper is so unpredictable. My other paper is the Aeneid and you kind of have an idea of what they'll ask but its hard to guess what will come up on Tuesday.

Yeah that's so frustrating! And I'm finding that I'm spending much more time on the tragedies than the Aeneid because there's so much to plan.

[Rhee_x]

Yeah it really is :/ I'm doing Tiberius and Claudius for unit 4 and they always ask certain types of questions whereas with the tragedy there doesn't seem to be any pattern or only certain things they ask - they seem to ask on anything!

I've found the exact opposite I've been spending more time on Unit 4 because its so much more structured it's easier to revise whereas with tragedy I feel like there's so much and it's not structured in any way.

[ndx]

Yeah, it's really hard to balance your revision time

Was just wondering, how will people structure their essays? Like, if there was a question on the portrayal of women, would you do a paragraph on each play and comment on how women are portrayed in each play or would you do a more thematic approach and merge the plays together? I'm really confused I haven't done that much essay practice in tragedy.

[Rhee_x]

I've noticed I do a different approach depending on whether it is a theme question or a dramatic techniques question.
For the theme questions I tend to write in theme, using certain plays more than others, but in dramatic techniques questions (like openings/endings) I do it play by play.

I have no idea what you're supposed to do though

[ndx]

Yeah, that's similar to what I do. I don't know the correct approach to take though. I've emailed my old classics teacher (she's retired but I think she marks classics exams now) so I'll see what she says when she replies.

[Rhee_x]

Starting to get nervous

I was wondering, if the essay in section B is on women, what is there to write about Jocasta?

[ndx]

I guess for Jocasta, you could comment that she appears to be a supporting wife to Oedipus, as she would have been expected to be. When he argues with Creon, she tries to calm him down and tell him not to be so rash.

You could also say about how she continues to try to protect him, when he's discovering the truth from the messenger, she begs him to stop for his sake but he refuses. Then, when she kills herself, she shows how important her honour (or time) was to her. She felt so disgraced that she couldn't live anymore. I think the audience would have respected her. That's all I can think of...

A question on women would be really good. I'm hoping for the gods though, there's so much to say.

[Rhee_x]

Yeah, there's just isn't as much to say about her compared to the tons of stuff for the other three plays

I would like something on the Gods too, especially because you could contrast Euripides/Sophocles treatment of the gods.