[Rhee_x]

I don't think quotes are necessarly, but to gain high marks you need to show detailed understanding of the text, and I suppose quotes are a very good way of showing to the examiner you know the text well.

They can't penalise you for not using them though, It just can't hurt to have them?

[ndx]

(Original post by Cania)
You're told to write quotes? My tutor hasn't mentioned a need to use quotes...

Is some last minute cramming in order, do you think?

Yeah, I'd definitely learn some quotes, my teacher said it really helps to have them if you want a good A/A*. About 2/3 for each should be enough. Here's one each from the plays, they're quite easy to memorise.

Oedipus - "I am on the edge of hearing horrors, yes, but I must hear."
Antigone - It would be "agony" for her to not be able to bury Polynices.
Medea - "I would rather stand 3 times in battle than bear one child."
Hippolyus - "Since I am pure, I will greet her (Aphrodite) at a distance."

[Cania]

(Original post by ndx)
But despite all this, he was entitled to have more than one family so the Greek, male audience would not have disliked him the way a modern audience would have. They would have seen his actions as justified.

It's really difficult to date the play, but I just thought I might add that Pericles passed a law in 450 requiring that both parents of a child had to be Athenian citizens for the child to gain citizenship, as opposed to just their father. Even if this hadn't come into force at the time of writing, if it was to be made law then we can say with some certainty that Athenians - for the most part - must have looked down on having a family with foreigners to some extent, which is why their offspring would be handicapped for it.

That's just a thought, though, you may not agree

Thanks for the summary, very helpful!

[Cania]

(Original post by Rhee_x)
I don't think quotes are necessarly, but to gain high marks you need to show detailed understanding of the text...

(Original post by ndx)
Yeah, I'd definitely learn some quotes...

Ah okay, I'll try and learn a few here and there. How very frustrating, I'd have started learning those weeks ago if I would have known. Thanks guys.

[ndx]

(Original post by Cania)
It's really difficult to date the play, but I just thought I might add that Pericles passed a law in 450 requiring that both parents of a child had to be Athenian citizens for the child to gain citizenship, as opposed to just their father. Even if this hadn't come into force at the time of writing, if it was to be made law then we can say with some certainty that Athenians - for the most part - must have looked down on having a family with foreigners to some extent, which is why their offspring would be handicapped for it.

That's just a thought, though, you may not agree

Thanks for the summary, very helpful!

That's a really good point! Medea does moan about being a metic, she actually says that as she's a foreigner she must "especially fall in line with the city's ways" (quite a good quote to remember). There really is a lot to say about Medea and all the plays, I wish we had more than 1hr 30 minutes.

[ndx]

Actually, I just wanted to make sure of something. According to Aristotle, does peripetia come before aganorisis or is it the other way around?

[louisb2692]

Thank you both of you!


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[louisb2692]

NDX what's mythology all about? If that comes up im seriously buggered!


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[Cania]

(Original post by ndx)
Actually, I just wanted to make sure of something. According to Aristotle, does peripetia come before aganorisis or is it the other way around?

"Aristotle considered anagnorisis, leading to peripeteia, the mark of a superior tragedy."

So discovery, then reversal.

[louisb2692]

Peripeteia comes before the anagnorisis. Eg. In oedipus when the messenger enters and reveals that Oedipus's 'real' father polybus has died from old age, Oedipus is relieved.Therefore the reversal of fortune occurs when Oedipus realises who his real father is.


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[Cania]

(Original post by louisb2692)
NDX what's mythology all about? If that comes up im seriously buggered!


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I think it would be evaluating the effect that the use of myth had on each of the plays. So, does it make it too predictable, how do Soph and Eurip avoid this... etc. Because the stories themselves would already be well known to an audience (with the exception of Medea - killing her children is commonly accepted to have been invented by Euripides.)



ETA: Oh gosh, just realised that you were actually asking ndx that question. I thought you'd just put a DX face and the n was a typo. Ignore me, must be tired...

[ndx]

Thanks guys!

Louis - Mythology could be a question like ‘The fact that the audience knew the plot of a tragedy was more of a help than a problem to Greek tragedians.’ How far you agree with this statement? I wrote about my answer to this before, I think on a different thread though

I basically said that in Oedipus, already knowing the myth built up tension which added to the catharsis. Also, you can say that the play using a familiar story enables Sophocles to be much more subtle. The use of tragic irony is very poetic. Similarly, in Antigone, tension is built up as we wait for Creon's punishment. You can also write about peripetia, anagnorisis and catastrophe in Sophocles.

In Medea, the audience know what she is capable of which gives a dangerous atomsphere. Euripides is also able to slightly manipulate the myth - we know she has supernatural powers and is evil yet he manages to make her character quite reasonable (to an extent). Can't remember what I wrote for Hippolytus but again, Euripides bases the story on a myth but manages to make the audience sympathise with Phaedra when you may not have thought this possible.

As for disadvantages, I suppose in Sophocles there's less of an element of surprise particulalry in comparison to Euripides. hat's all I can think of. Hope I've helped a bit, it's a horrible question. Really hope it doesn't come up!

[louisb2692]

Also guys what would you advise for last minute cramming material on tragedy?


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[louisb2692]

CANIA! Don't worry it's very helpful stuff! I need all the help I can get!


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[louisb2692]

Guys have a look at www.litcharts.com for oedipus and Antigone study guides. Good stuff!


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[Cania]

(Original post by louisb2692)
Also guys what would you advise for last minute cramming material on tragedy?


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I'm having another flick through Oedipus, because I think it's quite likely that it'll come up in part A, going over the conventions in Aristotle's "Poetics" and reminding myself of key themes within the plays.

Oh and praying for a 40 marker on women or the gods.
If it's a choice between messenger speeches and chorus, you guys will know I've got a D and probably passed out in the exam hall!

ETA: Thanks for the link, looks useful!

[Rhee_x]

(Original post by Cania)
If it's a choice between messenger speeches and chorus, you guys will know I've got a D and probably passed out in the exam hall!
!

I think I must be alone in wanting messenger speeches to come up :P

[Cania]

(Original post by Rhee_x)
I think I must be alone in wanting messenger speeches to come up :P

If you don't mind me asking, what would you say about them? I'm honestly clueless - I could get by with chorus but I've never really got my head around messenger speeches.

[ndx]

Messenger speeches would be okay, I think! Although, I don't think there's an actual messenger in Hippolytus? News is brought to Theseus of Pheadra's death by the chorus and Hippolyus's accident by the servant.

Oedipus- Messenger brings about his peripetia when he tells him that Polybus is not his real father. He also arranges for the shepherd to visit Oedipus which leads to his anagnorisis. The messenger also tells the chorus news of Jocasta's death and Oedipus stabbing his own eyes out.

Antigone - The messenger tells Eurydice about Creon's discovery of Antigone's body and Haemon's accidental suicide. His second appearance is to inform Creon of the death of his wife and the curse she's left on him.

Medea - The messenger brings her details of Glauce and Creon's death. We are brought news of the children's death because we hear them screaming for help off stage (pathos).

You would have to say they're particularly important because death couldn't be shown onstage so they would bring news of tragedy.

[Rhee_x]

(Original post by Cania)
If you don't mind me asking, what would you say about them? I'm honestly clueless - I could get by with chorus but I've never really got my head around messenger speeches.

In my view there is a very clear distnction between Sophocles' use of messenger speches and Euripidies. Sophocles employs messengers a lot, using them to advance the plot (think about the messenger's role in oedipus in revealing that he is not the son of Polybus), in Antigone, it the messenger that informs Eurydice that Haemon is dead by his own hand - thus prompting her to end her own life.

However, Euripidies does not use messenger speeches as much. In Hippolytus the only use of the messenger speech is to inform Theseus that Hippolytus is half way before living and dead, and to describe how the tragedy came about. In Medea, the messenger informs Medea that the princess and her father Creon are both dead, and then using graphic imagery in order to describe this.