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Some people just make me sick

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    (Original post by Melikeyflute)
    Does everyone think that all the fault lies on her? I mean come on, she's only 15. Obviously she should be able to distinguish between right and wrong but personally, I think the only reason most of us here didn't do a stupid thing like this was thanks to good (or not awful) parenting. That said, she should return all of the money. This reminds of me To kill a Mockingbird, I thought that sort of stuff was a thing of the past.
    She was 15 years old not 5, there is absolutely no room for any defence for this sort of action.
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    (Original post by Melikeyflute)
    Flipping heck, if you're going to quote me then at least do it correctly! I never contested the fact that she knew lying about rape is wrong... All i was saying was that all the blame shouldn't be on her! Also, what will jailing her her achieve? Has it occurred to you that the guy might not even want to put her in jail? It would just be spiteful to put her in jail and two wrongs don't make a right..



    Can you even comprehend what you just wrote? If that is truly ALL she has been taught how can you even expect her to behave any differently? I'd like to think the era of to kill a Mockingbird is over too but I'm not sure that is the case.. When Harper wrote the book she didn't just write to exemplify racism she also wrote to correct other types of ignorance, some of which are present nowadays.
    So wait, she committed a crime, and shouldn't be punished for it because it's 'spiteful'? Despite the fact that she was wrongly awarded 1.5 million? :rolleyes:

    Lol, alright then, go compare this some more to To Kill a Mockingbird why don't you?
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    (Original post by Melikeyflute)
    Flipping heck, if you're going to quote me then at least do it correctly! I never contested the fact that she knew lying about rape is wrong... All i was saying was that all the blame shouldn't be on her! Also, what will jailing her her achieve? Has it occurred to you that the guy might not even want to put her in jail? It would just be spiteful to put her in jail and two wrongs don't make a right.
    There may have been other factors like poor parenting involved, there might not have been and you can say that about any crime committed by anyone.

    Jailing someone achieves rehabilitation, punishment and prevention. Do you advocate using prison for any crime?

    There are plenty of examples where the victim of a crime forgives the offender, this doesn't mean they should be let off without punishment.

    Of course two wrongs don't make a right. Using your logic jailing people is wrong, so again you are advocating not jailing any criminals?
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    (Original post by TheHansa)
    The fact that society has progressed shows that people are not limited to how their parents think.
    Well yeah obviously... She wasn't limited to just how her parents think but I'd say at her age it'd account for far more than 50% if we were to use a random number. The progress in how society think weren't really made by 15 year olds were they. It's not until people are much older and experience different peoples' point of view that they develop their reasoning skills.

    Clearly, my reasoning isn't good enough to persuade people to change the way they think which is why i will stop posting for now. However, hopefully over time you will encounter more people like me which will make you understand where I am coming from!!!
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    (Original post by Melikeyflute)
    Can you even comprehend what you just wrote? If that is truly ALL she has been taught how can you even expect her to behave any differently? I'd like to think the era of to kill a Mockingbird is over too but I'm not sure that is the case.. When Harper wrote the book she didn't just write to exemplify racism she also wrote to correct other types of ignorance, some of which are present nowadays.
    So we are in the 2000s, and a 15 year old girl who falsely accused someone of rape could just have been ignorant? Yeah ok...

    Basically you are saying that she didn't know any better (which is what you mean by she has only been taught to think for herself). Thats just bull****. I can guarantee you she knew the consequences for the boy, she just didn't want own up and be ostrocised. No matter how much you want to compare it to Kill a Mockingbird you just can't. With the way the world works today (the media and all) our parents and teachers are not our only influences. No matter what she has been taught by her parents her actions cannot be justified. Even if they taught her to falsely accuse him of rape, she is 15 not 5 and will have known what she was doing is morally reprehensible.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    There may have been other factors like poor parenting involved, there might not have been and you can say that about any crime committed by anyone.

    Jailing someone achieves rehabilitation, punishment and prevention. Do you advocate using prison for any crime?

    There are plenty of examples where the victim of a crime forgives the offender, this doesn't mean they should be let off without punishment.

    Of course two wrongs don't make a right. Using your logic jailing people is wrong, so again you are advocating not jailing any criminals?
    You're right, I could and i probably would as long as the person was of fairly young age.

    I don't know if I would advocate jailing of criminals because I don't actually think it's a good method of helping the offenders. I heard something like 70% of people in jail are repeat offenders... Does that sound like they have been rehabilitated to you? The only grounds on which I can support jailing people is that i can't think of a more apt solution.

    I don't know if I agree with you on the third paragraph either. If you hit me with a bat with malevolent intent but then apologise to me later on and I forgive you (which I hope I would) then does that mean the government should intervene and punish you for your misdemeanour? It's just the same principle.
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    (Original post by Melikeyflute)
    You're right, I could and i probably would as long as the person was of fairly young age.

    I don't know if I would advocate jailing of criminals because I don't actually think it's a good method of helping the offenders. I heard something like 70% of people in jail are repeat offenders... Does that sound like they have been rehabilitated to you? The only grounds on which I can support jailing people is that i can't think of a more apt solution.

    I don't know if I agree with you on the third paragraph either. If you hit me with a bat with malevolent intent but then apologise to me later on and I forgive you (which I hope I would) then does that mean the government should intervene and punish you for your misdemeanour? It's just the same principle.
    I agree that our prisons are failing to rehabilitate criminals effectively, but letting criminals off scot free doesn't strike me as a suitable alternative.

    And yes, if I hit you with a bat then I should still be punished regardless of your forgiveness, if im not then what stops be doing the same thing next week?
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    (Original post by kka25)
    What's your point here?
    (Original post by fudgesundae)
    Irrelevant. There is no way to justify what she did. Any reasonable person would not have made such a claim in the first place.
    I agree that what she was unreasonable and what she did was wrong but after she her claim, what would have been the best way to rectify this. So many people lie and make up rumours (especially around the teen years) and lies can quickly blow up and become a much bigger situation than anyone imagined - once the ball starts rolling,many people believe the best thing is just to let it play out.

    There is no way to justify her actions but afterwards what would have been the best way to make amends... especially when he "admitted" to the crime and pleaded guilty.

    It probably wasn't the girl heself who asked for compensation but rather the prosecution/lawyers and even if she confided in someone, would they have believed her, and even so I can imagine that they would have told her just to forget about it and say nothing... I mean, the boy pleaded guilty.

    If it had gone to trial and she admitted to lying I wouldn't be surprised if she was just given a caution or let off . She started the issue but I don't think she can be held fully responsible for the whole sequence of events. Foolish mistake, sad advice from the attorney, poor scared boy who would rather go to jail and plead guilty than fight for his innocence and name.
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    (Original post by fudgesundae)
    So we are in the 2000s, and a 15 year old girl who falsely accused someone of rape could just have been ignorant? Yeah ok...

    Basically you are saying that she didn't know any better (which is what you mean by she has only been taught to think for herself). Thats just bull****. I can guarantee you she knew the consequences for the boy, she just didn't want own up and be ostrocised. No matter how much you want to compare it to Kill a Mockingbird you just can't. With the way the world works today (the media and all) our parents and teachers are not our only influences. No matter what she has been taught by her parents her actions cannot be justified. Even if they taught her to falsely accuse him of rape, she is 15 not 5 and will have known what she was doing is morally reprehensible.
    Maybe you're right. I personally don't think that even now (18) everything good (which is just the opposite of bad in case you were wondering the relevance) I do should be awarded to me. I believe it's a mixture of habit and environment, obviously with the prior coming from good parenting.

    But really, i don't want to argue with someone that thinks so dogmatically.
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    (Original post by fudgesundae)
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,2765187.story

    Before I start, I know that this is a case from the US, but this happens in every country and there have been some high profile cases over here.

    Baiscally 15 year old girl accuses 16 year old black high school football player of rape. He goes to prison for 5 years plus another 5 on probation, plus he had to register on the sex offenders register. She receives a $1.5 million dollar payout from the school district for not providing her with a "safe environment".

    So 10 years later she contacts him saying she wants to reconcile. Yet she refuses to admit her rape claim was false. He secretly records her confession and gets all his convictions quashed.

    He still dreams of playing professional football but it is definitely a long shot. She basically ruined his life as he was a very promising player in high school who definitely could have gone pro.

    Courts have said they will in all likelihood not prosecute her, and the school district said that they would not be able to get back the payments they made. This just disgusts me, she is one of the biggest pieces of scum I have ever heard of. Her actions are indefensible.

    She should have to spend at least as long in prison as he did and she should have to pay the $1.5 million she received to him as well. These cases just disgust me.
    There was a story of a teen in America who was persecuted for assault for protecting his younger sister.
    He smashed a bottle of someone who turned out to be the police chiefs son. At this trial evidence was deemed to be 'lost' or there were 'problems' with it.
    The guy then spent the next years in and out of prison for his charges and his family spent all their savings on lawyers. The guy is still in the system if I remember correctly.
    There is a big flaw with the American justice system, and it needs a revamp
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    Compensating rape victims with money is fundamentally flawed, and gives a incentive for false claims and makes it harder to admit to making a false accusation. The money for which the school was sued for should have been used to pay for any care and therapy that she needed, and then the excess could be paid to charity.
    It genuine rape cases I think it would be highly inappropriate to pay off the victim, effectively quantifying their suffering.
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    lol dumb bitch
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    I agree that our prisons are failing to rehabilitate criminals effectively, but letting criminals off scot free doesn't strike me as a suitable alternative.

    And yes, if I hit you with a bat then I should still be punished regardless of your forgiveness, if im not then what stops be doing the same thing next week?
    The first part is practically what i said! We're agreeing hurray!

    I don't know about you but if i hit someone with a bat and they I truly felt bad about it then I don't think i would hit that person again. Also, it seems that you're implying the only reason that you wouldn't hit me again is of fear that you would be punished again! That's interesting because lets say your punishment was to get hit twice as hard but then, you end up doing it again. Does that mean the punishment wasn't big enough? I think my method (carrot) is more effective than yours (stick) generally. I want to respect people, i don't want to hurt them! Also, I don't want people to not hit me because of the possible repercussions but because they don't want to hit me. Perhaps I'm being too idealistic though... Thanks for the interesting talk but I really need to revise for exams haha bye!
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    They probably took the testimony of this girl as the only evidence, a bit of mascara mixed with tears and everything was good to go.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    Relevance? :confused:
    Does it really matter if someone mentions that someone else is black? It's not abusive it's just acknowledgment. Don't say that you're one of these people that assumes you can't say the words black, White or Asian without it being racist.
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    Bitch should be arrested for starting up a miscarriage of justice haha.

    Guy should get 3x what she got- then he won't need to be a footballplayer.
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    (Original post by Melikeyflute)
    Maybe you're right. I personally don't think that even now (18) everything good (which is just the opposite of bad in case you were wondering the relevance) I do should be awarded to me. I believe it's a mixture of habit and environment, obviously with the prior coming from good parenting.

    But really, i don't want to argue with someone that thinks so dogmatically.
    Some things are a result of circumstance. And some things that happen to teenagers from disadvantaged backgrounds aren't entirely their fault. They make bad decisions based on what they see their role models doing (for example the gang culture in black ghettos in the US). They make the wrong decisions but due to their upbringing they don't see what they are doing as unusual or wrong, just the norm for someone from their area and of their age.

    But this case is different. She didn't falsely accuse him of rape because of what the people around her doing or because her parents never taught her it was the wrong thing to do. So I can see where you are coming from although I don't believe your point applies to this case.

    (Original post by Pin)
    I agree that what she was unreasonable and what she did was wrong but after she her claim, what would have been the best way to rectify this. So many people lie and make up rumours (especially around the teen years) and lies can quickly blow up and become a much bigger situation than anyone imagined - once the ball starts rolling,many people believe the best thing is just to let it play out.

    There is no way to justify her actions but afterwards what would have been the best way to make amends... especially when he "admitted" to the crime and pleaded guilty.

    It probably wasn't the girl heself who asked for compensation but rather the prosecution/lawyers and even if she confided in someone, would they have believed her, and even so I can imagine that they would have told her just to forget about it and say nothing... I mean, the boy pleaded guilty.

    If it had gone to trial and she admitted to lying I wouldn't be surprised if she was just given a caution or let off . She started the issue but I don't think she can be held fully responsible for the whole sequence of events. Foolish mistake, sad advice from the attorney, poor scared boy who would rather go to jail and plead guilty than fight for his innocence and name.
    He felt that he would rather go to jail for 5 years than go through a trial with an inherently racist justice system and face 20+ years in jail. I know that she isn't responsible for what happened after she made her claim, but there were 2 ways she could have stopped it. The first is never making such a claim knowing full well the damage it could have on a young boy's life. The second was just telling the truth. She may have been scared yes, but then that just proves that it was a cowardly move keeping it a secret.

    She should have felt bad enough telling a lie in the first place to send him to jail. The appeal for compensation was most likely at least a year after the event, maybe even a couple of years later. So it was her choice to go ahead with the lawsuit against the school district.

    Finally what should happen to her. Well she most likely has ruined this boy's life. So what normally happens when someone ruins someone else's life as the consequence of a crime? They go to jail. And that is what should happen to her. He had to face 5 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit. She should have to do at least that. The $1.5m award from the lawsuit, well everything she owns should have to be sold to recoup as much as they can, which can then be given to the victim.
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    (Original post by fudgesundae)
    He felt that he would rather go to jail for 5 years than go through a trial with an inherently racist justice system and face 20+ years in jail. I know that she isn't responsible for what happened after she made her claim, but there were 2 ways she could have stopped it. The first is never making such a claim knowing full well the damage it could have on a young boy's life. The second was just telling the truth. She may have been scared yes, but then that just proves that it was a cowardly move keeping it a secret.


    Finally what should happen to her. Well she most likely has ruined this boy's life. So what normally happens when someone ruins someone else's life as the consequence of a crime? They go to jail. And that is what should happen to her. He had to face 5 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit. She should have to do at least that. The $1.5m award from the lawsuit, well everything she owns should have to be sold to recoup as much as they can, which can then be given to the victim.
    I can completely understand why the boy decided to plead guilty however but he was given the sentence due to saying he was guilty therefore I don't thin it would be justice for the girl to serve the 5 years. Also from the girls perspective, imagine her surprise that he admitted he was guilty, how would you rationalise that. I can understand the American justice system is racist but imagine being a white 15 year old girl - you make up a lie and then the person says "yes i did" - it would be like wtf.

    Also, if she was charged, would you take into account her age at the time ie. charge her as a 15yr old or adult?

    You suggested a second course of action would be to tell the truth later. Who would believe her, I think the general public would find it difficult to imagine that many innocent people go around saying they are guilty.

    I feel the justice system has to be radically changed ie. stop being racist but I wonder what would be the pragmatic steps to actually reach this goal.
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    (Original post by Pin)
    I can completely understand why the boy decided to plead guilty however but he was given the sentence due to saying he was guilty therefore I don't thin it would be justice for the girl to serve the 5 years. Also from the girls perspective, imagine her surprise that he admitted he was guilty, how would you rationalise that. I can understand the American justice system is racist but imagine being a white 15 year old girl - you make up a lie and then the person says "yes i did" - it would be like wtf.

    Also, if she was charged, would you take into account her age at the time ie. charge her as a 15yr old or adult?
    Tried as whatever he was. He was probably tried as a minor seeing as he was only 16. Minors can still be given pretty harsh sentences.

    You suggested a second course of action would be to tell the truth later. Who would believe her, I think the general public would find it difficult to imagine that many innocent people go around saying they are guilty.

    I feel the justice system has to be radically changed ie. stop being racist but I wonder what would be the pragmatic steps to actually reach this goal.
    All it would require is a DNA test probably. They didn't take a DNA test as he pleaded no contest. No contest means the defendant neither admits nor disputes the charge, so the public would not find it difficult to imagine. In a wrongful murder case in this country a few years someone plead guilty after being pressured by the police. There didn't seem to be anyone thinking he still did it because he pleaded guilty after he was exonerated.

    I agree that the justice system needs to be changed. The problem is it is inherently racist. Which means it will take time as it will need new people in charge to bring new attitudes to the system.
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    People like that should be sentenced to spend the rest of their life with the taliban or a similar brutally sexist group imo.

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