[Ghost6]

(Original post by *Corinna*)
The reason I disagree with you and you always infuriate me and I wish I had more negs to give you is because you claim that not getting funding means you should not be doing a PhD, that you aren't good enough for it.

Umadbro?

[Ghost6]

(Original post by Ancathdubh)
Thanks all for your comments...
Btw I want to clarify few things about my question. I am EU citizen so i have no restriction to work in UK.
I am a PhD student (funded) in the USA, but I am academically not satisfied, so I have now an offer from a UK University, which I love, but which gives me no money
I can partially agree with you (Ghost). This is what I have noticed. There is a big difference if we are talking about USA or UK.

I am aware of the differences that exist between countries, but assume that people that are serious about doing a PhD have extensively researched the opportunities that exist in the world and are ready to go where the money is. It does not matter if some people start raging behind their computers, the truth is some smart people get their PhD's from prestigious institutions for free, and graduate without debt, and some others don't. I really hope the latter are not doing a PhD in economics.

[kka25]

(Original post by Ghost6)
I am aware of the differences that exist between countries, but assume that people that are serious about doing a PhD have extensively researched the opportunities that exist in the world and are ready to go where the money is. It does not matter if some people start raging behind their computers, the truth is some smart people get their PhD's from prestigious institutions for free, and graduate without debt, and some others don't. I really hope the latter are not doing a PhD in economics.

I'm curious; with all this talk about PhDs and PGs in general, have you done one?

[Craghyrax]

(Original post by Ghost6)
to put it bluntly not being awarded funding often implicitly means you shouldn't be doing a PhD.

That's complete bull crap.
I'm fully funded, so I'm not saying this out of defensiveness
In the current economic climate where University funding has been slashed so extremely, its very obvious that a lack of securing funding reflects the lack of there being any available, not the calibre of applicants.
Furthermore, Higher Education in the UK has drastically expanded over the last decade, which results in more people applying for graduate studies than ever before. There is considerably more competition for the same funding than there was before. If anything I would have thought that there are lots more intelligent, competent and highly deserving candidates applying for PhD funding than otherwise.

And that's before you even look at how arbitrary funding decisions can be. Nowhere's perfect, but funding decisions are often made based on whether a department has somebody that would match the student's project, and whether anyone actually really likes their idea. There are also certain topics that funding councils like to fund over others. This means that there are plenty of capable, super intelligent people out there who might not get funding purely because their particular research interest isn't fashionable.

Really, Ghost6. With the amount of negative reputation you've amassed I'm surprised you're still bothering to post in the Postgraduate forums. Everybody thinks your opinions are rubbish! Give it a rest.

[Craghyrax]

(Original post by Ancathdubh)
Hi all, I was just wondering if any of you is starting a PhD without funding and how you plan to cover expenses. I do not know about the results of all scholarships i applied for, and if they are unsuccessful I don't know what I should do.
Do you think it's worth to ask a loan or spend so much from your own pocket? Is it possible to combine part time work with PhD studies...? Thanks you so much!

London is the most expensive place in the UK to live. Research councils pay a higher stipend to PhDs at London Universities than they do to PhDs at other Universities around the country because its so much more expensive.
My guess would be that you could probably make ends meet (if you were really really careful with budgeting and didn't allow yourself any extras) on about £8000 a year (excluding tuition fees). However that's based on you living in a reasonably inexpensive location. Most of the South of England is quite expensive, so I'd say you'd need £10,000 a year in a lot of the South. London you'd need more.
But really I wouldn't recommend this. Particularly if you've never lived on a low income before. Its hard. I think it would be far more sensible if you want to self-fund, to register as a part time student and support yourself with a job.

[sj27]

(Original post by Ghost6)
I am aware of the differences that exist between countries, but assume that people that are serious about doing a PhD have extensively researched the opportunities that exist in the world and are ready to go where the money is. It does not matter if some people start raging behind their computers, the truth is some smart people get their PhD's from prestigious institutions for free, and graduate without debt, and some others don't. I really hope the latter are not doing a PhD in economics.

Again, you are being far too simplistic. Let's say X gets a funded offer to do a PhD in the US...but X also has a spouse and one or two children. His/her spouse may not work while they are there. PhD stipends are not enough to cover living costs for a family for 5 years. X then either has to go into debt anyway to be able to do the PhD there, or do it in his/her home country where funding is less easily available and at least partly self-fund. Maybe when you're not fresh out of undergrad anymore you'll understand a bit more about the constraints people face.

And your last sentence is just silly, considering a PhD in economics is one of those where you could well end up with a salary in seven figures in the private sector.

[kka25]

(Original post by sj27)
Again, you are being far too simplistic. Let's say X gets a funded offer to do a PhD in the US...but X also has a spouse and one or two children. His/her spouse may not work while they are there. PhD stipends are not enough to cover living costs for a family for 5 years. X then either has to go into debt anyway to be able to do the PhD there, or do it in his/her home country where funding is less easily available and at least partly self-fund. Maybe when you're not fresh out of undergrad anymore you'll understand a bit more about the constraints people face.

Exactly.

I think Ghost is still in his UG or just finished (I might be wrong though). Those who are doing PGs wouldn't be so haste to conclude as he did.

Ghost, is not as easy as that. You need to do more research before you conclude something. Don't just take things at face value.

[*Corinna*]

(Original post by Ghost6)
Umadbro?

nope, I'm not mad, you just annoy me because I disagree with you and that's not because I don't have funding as you might want to assume, it's simply cause you are wrong.

[QHF]

My two small coins of low denomination: it's certainly possible, and I know people who are doing it. But from everything they tell me it's very hard! In the cases I know some details of, they used savings to demonstrate ability to pay, and are working quite hard in jobs around a full-time PhD to actually pay.

And I think it requires a certain cast-iron confidence that you will get some sort of personal satisfaction from the qualification even if it doesn't lead to a career or boost your earning power in any way.

As to what, if anything, securing funding might mean, at most (if we ignore how arbitrary these decisions can be) it might indicate that you're good -- at securing funding! From what I've seen this is, yes, an important skill for an academic career. But there's a big difference between knowing where to get the low-down on what sort of thing might look like a good prospect for funding, and actually being a capable PhD student.

[Ghost6]

(Original post by Craghyrax)
Really, Ghost6. With the amount of negative reputation you've amassed I'm surprised you're still bothering to post in the Postgraduate forums.

Look, I don't give two ****s about reputation. And if I thought it mattered, I would have opened a second profile with a brand new reputation. The lower my reputation, the more attention and answers I get.

My point has always been the same: do not pay universities for something they should be paying you. By doing a PhD in some meaningful subject, you are doing society a favor and you should be rewarded accordingly. I would never, ever, do an unfunded PhD and nobody else should. Ironically, those that object seem to be fully-funded at top universities. Do as I say, not as I do

[Craghyrax]

(Original post by Ghost6)
Look, I don't give two ****s about reputation. And if I thought it mattered, I would have opened a second profile with a brand new reputation.

My point has always been the same: do not pay universities for something they should be paying you. By doing a PhD in some meaningful subject, you are doing society a favor and you should be rewarded accordingly. I would never, ever, do an unfunded PhD and nobody else should. Ironically, those that object seem to be fully-funded at top universities. Do as I say, not as I do

I'm not at a top University, and if I could afford to fund my own PhD I would certainly have done so if I didn't win funding.

[*Corinna*]

(Original post by Ghost6)
Look, I don't give two ****s about reputation. And if I thought it mattered, I would have opened a second profile with a brand new reputation. The lower my reputation, the more attention and answers I get.

My point has always been the same: do not pay universities for something they should be paying you. By doing a PhD in some meaningful subject, you are doing society a favor and you should be rewarded accordingly. I would never, ever, do an unfunded PhD and nobody else should. Ironically, those that object seem to be fully-funded at top universities. Do as I say, not as I do

how is this ironic? also you haven't told us, are you a fully funded PhD student at Oxbridge?

[The_Lonely_Goatherd]

I'm thinking about doing a PhD and am quite happy to work (as far as I'm able, given my health) for as many years as it takes to eventually self-fund a part-time PhD. It won't be AHRC funded because my undergraduate transcript is too poor (for reasons far beyond my control) for me to be a competitive applicant for funding but I've floated a PhD idea around a few unis and it's generated a lot of interest. I feel it's something I would benefit from and something that's worth doing.

So forgive me if I pay more attention to the advice of my world-famous supervisors, rather than one or two random people on the Internet

[sj27]

(Original post by Ghost6)
Ironically, those that object seem to be fully-funded at top universities. Do as I say, not as I do

There's nothing "ironic" about it. Firstly, no-one's going to turn down funding if they get offered it just so they can self-fund. Secondly, having funded students answer you immediately removes the counter-argument that might otherwise be used of people just trying to defend their own decisions.

By the way, do you honestly think more red gems gets you more attention? That's just...sad, like some toddler throwing a tantrum to get attention. It doesn't generally work in either case. You get answered because of what you say, not that. The flip side is that should you ever happen to come on here with a genuine question about something you're far less likely to get anyone trying to help.

[sj27]

(Original post by *Corinna*)
how is this ironic? also you haven't told us, are you a fully funded PhD student at Oxbridge?

I seem to recall he's said before he's coming to the UK to do a master's to strengthen his PhD applications in the US. Not one of those super smart US kids that manages to get a fully funded PhD straight out of undergrad, in other words.

[*Corinna*]

(Original post by sj27)
I seem to recall he's said before he's coming to the UK to do a master's to strengthen his PhD applications in the US. Not one of those super smart US kids that manages to get a fully funded PhD straight out of undergrad, in other words.

I've been trying to rep you for 3 days and it finally allowed me too. I think TSR agrees with me that this post deserves the rep

[sj27]

(Original post by *Corinna*)
I've been trying to rep you for 3 days and it finally allowed me too. I think TSR agrees with me that this post deserves the rep

Lol. I'm still PRSOM on you unfortunately!

[Ghost6]

(Original post by sj27)
I seem to recall he's said before he's coming to the UK to do a master's to strengthen his PhD applications in the US. Not one of those super smart US kids that manages to get a fully funded PhD straight out of undergrad, in other words.

That's right, I will be doing a master's at Cambridge. I could have easily gotten some funded PhD offers at say, 10-30 ranked schools, but will use the master's to try to crack the top 10. The program I will be doing is seen as the golden standard taught degree in the field. But I am not completely set on a PhD and a prestigious master's with the added international experience will make me competitive for high-paying jobs in the private sector too, if I eventually decided against a PhD.

[*Corinna*]

(Original post by Ghost6)
That's right, I will be doing a master's at Cambridge. I could have easily gotten some funded PhD offers at say, 10-30 ranked schools, but will use the master's to try to crack the top 10. The program I will be doing is seen as the golden standard taught degree in the field. But I am not completely set on a PhD and a prestigious master's with the added international experience will make me competitive for high-paying jobs in the private sector too, if I eventually decided against a PhD.

Good luck. A person I know from Oxford did the same thing. Didn't work out for them.

[gumball]

To be honest, I'm somewhat surprised you aren't taking Oxford's Rhodes scholarship. Then again, Oxford might not be the highest ranked university in your field.

I did hear that if you didn't get the Rhodes scholarship, you might as well not do a PhD.