PhD without scholarship...Is it possible?

I expressly said if you can afford it, do it. Only the person undertaking the PhD knows if they can afford it. I am not saying that everybody should just be gung-ho and throw themselves in without careful financial planning but the OP should not write themselves off due to a lack of funding. It is not an indication as to how good they are.

My husband would have completed the PhD without funding if he had never received it and I appreciate that we are in a fortunate position because we have both worked very hard in the private sector for several years and have put money aside. If I don't get funding I will probably have to find some part-time work to supplement my husband's income but my point overall is that you cannot say "do not do the PhD if you don't have funding" because this is as much of a generalisation as saying that because one person can / might be able to afford it, so can everybody. This is getting garbled now but I just think we need to be careful of telling people that they are not good enough because they did not get funding, or that it is not possible or even worthwhile to self-fund a PhD. As I said, it is possible to get funding a second or even third time around. I am sorry about what happened to your friends and nobody knows what the future holds but frankly, it is even possible to get into financial trouble with funding.

It also seems odd that you are advising people not to do something because it might affect their emotional / psychological health and relationships. Yes, it might. But it might not! I suffered a nervous breakdown in November last year only 6 months into a well-paying new job. Money did not cause the breakdown. And I know that in some cases it might, but it just seems like odd advice. Perhaps not doing a PhD and taking a job that they hate just for the money might cause resentment in the relationship and lead to a breakdown. Who knows? This is a very personal thing to advise people on.

In the end, I always find this type of post strange. Should I go to x university? Should I do a PhD? Can I afford to leave work? Ultimately, only you know. Some unknown person sitting somewhere on a PC cannot know what is going on in your life or what is best for you.

Xena

Completely agree. I am rather confused about all this £100000+ costs... As far as I can see no uni charges more than a few thousand in the UK for PhDs. Living expenses might cost £10-15k per year but that is (somewhat) irrelevant because you would have to spend that living cost anyway - still this is less than half the number bantered around. The cost should not be measured in loss of earnings as, if you do something you are passionate about, for your own reasons, then there is no loss per sé. Part time PhDs are also available for those that want to work. Funding is generally unavailable in the UK but that's not to say it's impossible, particularly relevant if you join a team with funding - although you'll give up your own personal project to be part of that team...fair enough. Anyone ONLY considering PhDs that are funded might fall into two camps - those whose projects cannot be researched without funding, or those that don't consider their project to be worthy of their funding it themselves - for whatever reason - financial or otherwise. There are also those that merely want to take up the challenge for personal reasons. These people are not less valuable and their PhDs valued less because all is relative to their research project, the subject area, existing material and where they wish to take it...if the programme is something of value to a potential PhD student, and funding isn't necessarily available, it is not a complete dead end.

Since you mentioned IT, I'm gonna take a guess...is it a CS (or any related field - statistics, math, computational science, etc) PhD that you're shooting for?

My understanding *you* get paid to do the PhD, at least, that's how it works in the US. And unfunded positions are rarely given. At least, that's for anything science-related.

x

why are people coming here posting completely irrelevant stuff like "oh in the US you get paid". It's not the US here is it?? How does 'what happens in the US' have anything to do with what happens in the UK where funding is much more scarce?

PhD students in Europe and elsewhere are generally awarded stipends, which while not much, is enough to live on. If there are tuition fees, they are generally waived. If not that, then the stipend is usually larger and one can pay off the tuition with that money. That's how it seems to work in Canada.

I find it illogical to do a PhD in country Z if one cannot secure funding there. Even more so if funding is available elsewhere in the world, with people conducting research in the same topic.

Well, I'm glad Ghost irritated you enough to get you to post I think your posts make a lot of sense, hope you hang around!!

What European countries are you talking about? I know for a fact that the UK, Greece, Italy, Germany, France (these are the countries I either personally or through Friends know about) only give bursaries to the students who win scholarships which of course are rair. Indeed most EU countries don't charge fees but admittedly some of the best unis in the world are in the UK. Also in order to study in most of these countries you need to be fluent in the language and this makes it evenore difficult for UK students to leave England.

I find it illogical to do a PhD in country Z if one cannot secure funding there. Even more so if funding is available elsewhere in the world, with people conducting research in the same topic.

You might find it illogical, but presumably you are young and single with no ties. How many of those stipends could fund a family that one might have to bring along - particularly if the funded PhD is in a country where the spouse may not work due to being the "wrong" nationality?

You might find it illogical, but presumably you are young and single with no ties. How many of those stipends could fund a family that one might have to bring along - particularly if the funded PhD is in a country where the spouse may not work due to being the "wrong" nationality?

I think we are getting confused here... to put my thoughts simply: yes, ideally we would all choose a place with funding, but unfortunately this is not always possible for various reasons. I don't know what your situation is, I just remembered you saying you don't have funding, but maybe you are doing it in your home city and it works out cheaper for you, I don't know. Obviously you didn't mention you wanted to go overseas, that was my point after all, that even though it is a sound advice not everyone is willing to do it. I still think that if someone has the money to afford it (or is willing to take a loan) then they should not be labelled delusional.

Also, why would this topic be emotional for me? I just don't like that many people here (Not you, or Lilium) are so insulting towards people who self fund and it makes me a bit angry because I know how difficult it is to secure funding (even though I am lucky enough to have managed to) and I know how emotionally straining it can be without adding the opinions of people who tell you you aren't capable of doing a PhD.

I expressly said if you can afford it, do it. Only the person undertaking the PhD knows if they can afford it. I am not saying that everybody should just be gung-ho and throw themselves in without careful financial planning but the OP should not write themselves off due to a lack of funding. It is not an indication as to how good they are.

My husband would have completed the PhD without funding if he had never received it and I appreciate that we are in a fortunate position because we have both worked very hard in the private sector for several years and have put money aside. If I don't get funding I will probably have to find some part-time work to supplement my husband's income but my point overall is that you cannot say "do not do the PhD if you don't have funding" because this is as much of a generalisation as saying that because one person can / might be able to afford it, so can everybody. This is getting garbled now but I just think we need to be careful of telling people that they are not good enough because they did not get funding, or that it is not possible or even worthwhile to self-fund a PhD. As I said, it is possible to get funding a second or even third time around.

I am sorry about what happened to your friends and nobody knows what the future holds but frankly, it is even possible to get into financial trouble with funding.

It also seems odd that you are advising people not to do something because it might affect their emotional / psychological health and relationships. Yes, it might. But it might not! I suffered a nervous breakdown in November last year only 6 months into a well-paying new job. Money did not cause the breakdown. And I know that in some cases it might, but it just seems like odd advice. Perhaps not doing a PhD and taking a job that they hate just for the money might cause resentment in the relationship and lead to a breakdown. Who knows? This is a very personal thing to advise people on.

In the end, I always find this type of post strange. Should I go to x university? Should I do a PhD? Can I afford to leave work? Ultimately, only you know. Some unknown person sitting somewhere on a PC cannot know what is going on in your life or what is best for you.

Xena

Yes. Familial constraints will make the life of anyone wanting a PhD hard(er).

I know of one person who has been able to pull it (PhD while taking care of their family) off. He's now a retired math professor. I suppose that his partner was working as well.

I find it illogical to do a PhD in country Z if one cannot secure funding there. Even more so if funding is available elsewhere in the world, with people conducting research in the same topic.

This is not true. I am sick and tired of constantly arguing with you about this thing! (and I'm not the only one who does so) You should not be so quick to judge and dishearten people. There are a million things that matter in who gets the funding and ability is NOT the main one. Research proposal is probably the most important one and for this you HAVE to be lucky to happen to propose something that the people in the committee find interesting. Another thing is the FACT that funding is RIDICULOUSLY scarce!! My department at Oxford had to cut it's scholarships from 4 to 2!! Are you implying that the 2 people who, when they applied in 2011, where ranked 3rd and 4th were fine but the people applying in 2012 ranked 3rd and 4th (and because of the cuts received no money) are not "suitable"????

I know of one person who has been able to pull it (PhD while taking care of their family) off. He's now a retired math professor. I suppose that his partner was working as well.

Yes. Familial constraints will make the life of anyone wanting a PhD hard(er).

I know of one person who has been able to pull it (PhD while taking care of their family) off. He's now a retired math professor. I suppose that his partner was working as well.

I don't think this is actually true. It's counter-intuitive, but a functional marriage will probably help rather than hinder.

It's very, very easy, as a single male to piss around doing nothing.

I don't think this is actually true. It's counter-intuitive, but a functional marriage will probably help rather than hinder.

It's very, very easy, as a single male to piss around doing nothing.