PhD without scholarship...Is it possible?
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Original post by sj27
- you chase a fully funded PhD to a country where your spouse cannot work, you struggle to get by on the stipend and your spouse is frustrated because they have to twiddle their thumbs for 3-5 years rather than advancing their own career = family constraint that outweighs benefits of funded PhD.
- you chase a fully funded PhD to a country where your spouse cannot work, you struggle to get by on the stipend and your spouse is frustrated because they have to twiddle their thumbs for 3-5 years rather than advancing their own career = family constraint that outweighs benefits of funded PhD.
Owh, my God... that would be a horrible journey really
Original post by kka25
Some people just want the fame of the institution *cough* those on QS/THES *cough* so they are willing to do these sort of things... :/
Interestingly enough, as far as math/physics/stats/CS is concerned (apparently - people could just have had generally positive experiences but lots of discussions on science PhDs bring similar thoughts up), if the school is accredited and is awarding doctorates, you can't really *go wrong*. That is of course, assuming it is a good fit for you. Meaning that it's an environment in which you can work well.
According to TSR members from Germany and a few other persons I've spoken to, who are currently studying there or have just finished their studies, the lines between institutions in Germany are really blurred. It doesn't matter much if someone studied at the LMU or TU Dresden, so long as they did well. Likewise for France. (at the PhD level, at least - anything below that and it's usually a grande ecoles > universities thing)
Another important thing, at the PhD level, it's more "can this guy conduct research?" and "Yes? I should go check out some of his papers on arXiv and see for myself..." rather than "Oh, top 5 uni!! OM NOM OM NOM".
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
I don't think this is actually true. It's counter-intuitive, but a functional marriage will probably help rather than hinder.
It's very, very easy, as a single male to piss around doing nothing.
It's very, very easy, as a single male to piss around doing nothing.
Which brings us back to the story of the math prof I mentioned. At least, it's a sound enough assumption that this worked out well for him because of something like that.
The problem with having a family when doing a PhD, from what I understand, is that the hours are insane and the pay is low. Simply being married could work but raising kids at the same time could prove to be problematic.
Original post by Lilium
Interestingly enough, as far as math/physics/stats/CS is concerned (apparently - people could just have had generally positive experiences but lots of discussions on science PhDs bring similar thoughts up), if the school is accredited and is awarding doctorates, you can't really *go wrong*. That is of course, assuming it is a good fit for you. Meaning that it's an environment in which you can work well.
According to TSR members from Germany and a few other persons I've spoken to, who are currently studying there or have just finished their studies, the lines between institutions in Germany are really blurred. It doesn't matter much if someone studied at the LMU or TU Dresden, so long as they did well. Likewise for France. (at the PhD level, at least - anything below that and it's usually a grande ecoles > universities thing)
Another important thing, at the PhD level, it's more "can this guy conduct research?" and "Yes? I should go check out some of his papers on arXiv and see for myself..." rather than "Oh, top 5 uni!! OM NOM OM NOM".
According to TSR members from Germany and a few other persons I've spoken to, who are currently studying there or have just finished their studies, the lines between institutions in Germany are really blurred. It doesn't matter much if someone studied at the LMU or TU Dresden, so long as they did well. Likewise for France. (at the PhD level, at least - anything below that and it's usually a grande ecoles > universities thing)
Another important thing, at the PhD level, it's more "can this guy conduct research?" and "Yes? I should go check out some of his papers on arXiv and see for myself..." rather than "Oh, top 5 uni!! OM NOM OM NOM".
"Please rate some other members before rating this member again."
Exactly; and the last bolded part I just
Perfectly describes some people on this thread 
The problem with having a family when doing a PhD, from what I understand, is that the hours are insane and the pay is low. Simply being married could work but raising kids at the same time could prove to be problematic.
There is some truth in this; they could be a significant morale booster - or the inverse of that :/
Original post by kka25
There is some truth in this; they could be a significant morale booster - or the inverse of that :/
One thing I often forget, considering that I spend way too much time on my own, is that life is very, very random.
Also: YMMV. Some people strive on stress. I've heard people say they find "coding in C++ after work soothing" and after taking to an acquaintance of mine recently, they seem to not mind "barely sleeping" because of their one year old kid. In fact, they seem to love it.
I, on the other hand, am very volatile. So, maybe a PhD won't be too good for me. Unless it's in a rapidly growing field with so much stuff going on that it borders on being chaotic. Turns out that I like that kind of thing. At least, I do now. The idea with randomness is that five years from now when I have to say "yes or no" to a PhD, everything might have changed...
At any rate, I stand by my initial position that paying for PhD is usually not a good move.
Original post by Profesh
Surely if your chosen specialism is of no interest to anyone then your prospects of securing an academic posting would be slender-to-non-existent?
that's a very simplistic approach. I don't know how things are in your subject but in mine every few years "fashion" changes. A professor was telling me that e.g. for the past few years the ancient novel is in fashion and as a result my university is eager to fund proposals about it. This doesn't mean a. that no one else is interested in anything else and b. that this won't change in a few years' time. And surely we cannot all be doing the exact same thing. And also, it heavily depends on the department and the people who are in the committee deciding on funding.
Original post by Xena1983
Wow, some people on here are arrogant and ignorant and need to get off their high horses!! I'm so angry!!
Wow, some people on here are arrogant and ignorant and need to get off their high horses!! I'm so angry!!
You mad, bro? If you want to shell out £30,000 a year in fees and living expenses while at the same time other people are getting this for free, your problem really. By doing a PhD, you are doing society a favor, and you should be paid for your hard work. Are you going to be relying on your family's income for the rest of your life or will you start making sensible decisions one day?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Ghost6
You mad, bro? If you want to shell out £30,000 a year in fees and tuition expenses...
Are STEM subjects really that expensive?
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
Are STEM subjects really that expensive?
My bad, I meant fees and living expenses.
Original post by Ghost6
My bad, I meant fees and living expenses.
I still don't understand how that adds up to £30K each year though
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
I still don't understand how that adds up to £30K each year though
Easy: £15,000 in fees + £15,000 in living expenses. I have an international student in mind here, a UK student would be paying less fees, but £15,000 in living costs is a very conservative estimate given the cost of life in Southern England in any case. If you start factoring in things such as travel expenses and the like, because you will be returning home at least a couple times a year, and it becomes clearly insufficient.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Ghost6
Easy: £15,000 in fees + £15,000 in living expenses. I have an international student in mind here, a UK student would be paying less fees, but £15,000 in living costs is a very conservative estimate given the cost of life in Southern England in any case.
Oh right! I thought you were talking about a home student
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
Oh right! I thought you were talking about a home student
In any case, nobody should be paying for a PhD education. But visibly people don't seem to like sensible financial much in this part of the forum. I hope these people are not writing their dissertations on personal finance
Original post by Ghost6
In any case, nobody should be paying for a PhD education. But visibly people don't seem to like sensible financial much in this part of the forum. I hope these people are not writing their dissertations on personal finance
I think perhaps we're all just coming at it from different angles. You seem to like talking a lot about STEM subjects, where there is more funding and more directly applicable world use and value. I mean, do you really think the government or the AHRC should fund me just because I want to do a PhD on religious music in Catholicism and it's deemed a very interesting and unique topic within musical/interdisciplinary humanities academia?
Even I don't think the government should automatically pay for it (Though of course if they want to, I won't say no 
)
Original post by Ghost6
In any case, nobody should be paying for a PhD education. But visibly people don't seem to like sensible financial much in this part of the forum. I hope these people are not writing their dissertations on personal finance
Sorry, what did you not get about the maths where it could end up being cheaper for a family unit to have one person fund a PhD than go somewhere where the PhD is funded but the spouse can't work?
Original post by kka25
If the person is willing to take a loan, alright. But I would advice the person to check, check and check again if it's worth swirling yourself to too much debt :/ It's not worth it, in my opinion of course, to swirl yourself into bankruptcy just for a 3 letter certificate.
If the person is willing to take a loan, alright. But I would advice the person to check, check and check again if it's worth swirling yourself to too much debt :/ It's not worth it, in my opinion of course, to swirl yourself into bankruptcy just for a 3 letter certificate.
OK, I think it is important to understand that student loan is NOT the same as other types of loans. You CAN NOT go into bankruptcy with the student loan!
Student loans payments are ADJUSTED according to income. It is rather more like a tax. Have you ever heard of someone going into bankruptcy because taxes are too high? Think of it - what is a typical tax on middle size income? 25%? 35%? Lets say it is 35%. Loan will add another 10-15% to that, making it 45-50%.
This is the same as income tax in some Scandinavian countries! Did you ever hear of Scandinavians going into bankruptcy because of higher taxes? This is ridiculous! (and, by the way, this is how they fund free education).
I am not saying that you should borrow and borrow like there is no tomorrow, but please understand the difference between borrowing to buy a car or a house, and borrowing to fund your studies. It is two VEEERY different things. First one is called "spending" second is called "investment into your future".
Original post by Ghost6
Easy: £15,000 in fees + £15,000 in living expenses. I have an international student in mind here, a UK student would be paying less fees, but £15,000 in living costs is a very conservative estimate given the cost of life in Southern England in any case. If you start factoring in things such as travel expenses and the like, because you will be returning home at least a couple times a year, and it becomes clearly insufficient.
Research council funding in London amounts to approx £18,000 p/a...so it sounds like even with funding, it would be 'insufficient' for you studying here. Unless US scholarships pay signif more. Which wouldn't surprise me...
Original post by janjanmmm
OK, I think it is important to understand that student loan is NOT the same as other types of loans. You CAN NOT go into bankruptcy with the student loan!
Student loans payments are ADJUSTED according to income. It is rather more like a tax. Have you ever heard of someone going into bankruptcy because taxes are too high? Think of it - what is a typical tax on middle size income? 25%? 35%? Lets say it is 35%. Loan will add another 10-15% to that, making it 45-50%.
This is the same as income tax in some Scandinavian countries! Did you ever hear of Scandinavians going into bankruptcy because of higher taxes? This is ridiculous! (and, by the way, this is how they fund free education).
I am not saying that you should borrow and borrow like there is no tomorrow, but please understand the difference between borrowing to buy a car or a house, and borrowing to fund your studies. It is two VEEERY different things. First one is called "spending" second is called "investment into your future".
Student loans payments are ADJUSTED according to income. It is rather more like a tax. Have you ever heard of someone going into bankruptcy because taxes are too high? Think of it - what is a typical tax on middle size income? 25%? 35%? Lets say it is 35%. Loan will add another 10-15% to that, making it 45-50%.
This is the same as income tax in some Scandinavian countries! Did you ever hear of Scandinavians going into bankruptcy because of higher taxes? This is ridiculous! (and, by the way, this is how they fund free education).
I am not saying that you should borrow and borrow like there is no tomorrow, but please understand the difference between borrowing to buy a car or a house, and borrowing to fund your studies. It is two VEEERY different things. First one is called "spending" second is called "investment into your future".
...
Do you honestly believe that's the only loan I'm talking about? When I made the post, I covered not only unmarried people, but married ones as well. They would want to take other loans that could help them through the day. Furthermore, the loans might need to pay for something else back home e.g. cars; house mortgage; children's schools, medical bills, etc and as well as others.
Investment into your future as I said can also lead you to something dangerous if you don't plan, plan and plan. Which part of this you don't understand?
Before you get all hyped up and write things in uppercase letters, punctuation marks, etc, you might need to think it through.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Ghost6
Look, "good enough" will always be relative to your competition. The very best candidates, no matter which criteria are used, will get the funding and the others won't. My advice for the latter is very simple: forget the PhD. The academic job market is saturated and it is unreasonable to take out a £100,000+ loan for a piece of paper which may turn out to be worthless if you cannot land an academic job.
Maybe satured in the United States.
Academics will always be in high demand, specially in areas such as energy, environment and sustainability. You should not be really saying things like this as this is very misleading. The situation in the United States will be different from the rest of the world.
In terms of the financial aspect I tend to agree with you. The best candidates will definitely get the funding but that by all means does not mean that the market is saturated.
Original post by Ghost6
You mad, bro? If you want to shell out £30,000 a year in fees and living expenses while at the same time other people are getting this for free, your problem really. By doing a PhD, you are doing society a favor, and you should be paid for your hard work. Are you going to be relying on your family's income for the rest of your life or will you start making sensible decisions one day?
I'm sorry but I am nearly 29 years old, I am married and I have worked my a$$ off for the last 8 years. So if I now choose to let my husband support me financially in the event that I do not get funding (which I will not know about until this time next year anyway, so I might actually get it) what on Earth is the problem with that? If you bothered to read my post, you will realise that my husband funded himself for his first year (or rather, I funded him) and he is now fully funded and on course to start a post-doc with his supervisor at his current university. So how is this a mistake? There are many people who do not *have* to work, either because their partners earn a lot or because they have saved very hard or they have a lot of assets. If they don't get funding, what do you suggest they do, sit on their backsides and twiddle their thumbs? Go flying all over the world chasing funding without their spouses? Uproot their families? Why should they if there is no need?
As I previously insinuated, you have a chip on your shoulder about something. If I am in a fortunate position to undertake a self-funded PhD, that is my choice and not necessarily the wrong one! I know I am in a really fortunate position but I am not prepared to self-flagelate - I have worked really hard for this.
Do us all a favour and take your arrogance elsewhere. It really is not becoming.
Xena
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Ghost6
In any case, nobody should be paying for a PhD education. But visibly people don't seem to like sensible financial much in this part of the forum. I hope these people are not writing their dissertations on personal finance
So you honestly think that nobody anywhere can afford to self-fund? Is this where your chip comes from? Can you not accept that some people are well-off financially and do not need funding?
You seem to be implying that everybody undertaking postgraduate education is 21 and still living off their parents. What about people who have worked and are nearly 30? Or let me guess, people like me should be knuckling down to a sensible job in the financial sector?
Seems to me we might have uncovered the truth of it. You clearly have an issue with people who are able to afford to self-fund.
Xena
(edited 11 years ago)
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