[barnetbuzzzz]

(Original post by KingZizou)
have you watched the video? most of the things he does doesn't even depend on his opposition.

and yeah, based on that and the fact that he alone took france to the world cup final after retirement, making ribery and malouda stars in the process

So you're telling me that all those nutmegs and passes would have no better chance of being intercepted by, say, Busquets and Dani Alves than they would by Ben Shepherd and Jonathan Wilkes?

[michaelhaych]

(Original post by KingZizou)
i'm saying that the players that played in the zidane era are A LOT better than the players playing in today's game in general.

i said xavi and iniesta carry barca, yes.. where's the contradiction?

zidane + figo > xavi + iniesta, very easily..

But Luis Figo has never won a World Cup. Xavi and Iniesta have. Iniesta scored the winning goal in the final. According to your logic, Figo can't be considered as one of the greatest players ever for that reason. There's your contradiction.

[Dalek1099]

(Original post by wibewy)
pele, maradona, fat ronaldo and zidane are all better than messi

what has messi done outside of the best team of all time? if messi played in the same era as zidane, fat ronaldo, bergkamp, ronaldinho, henry etc. you would see that it is a joke to call this guy the best of all time. in terms of goals/assists, he is the best on paper, yes.. but football isn't played on paper. remember barca vs chelsea? he tried to run past their defence, ended up losing the ball and conceding a goal. things like this don't get added to the stat book.

then you look at zidane - he is literally impossible to dispossess and made the right choice every time. the guy has a poor goal/assist record yet has won everything you can possibly win. his game simply could not be measured by statistics. he came out of retirement as an old man and single-handedly carried his team to the world cup final - something that messi is struggling to do at his peak.

this guy is the best of all time:



scored the best champions league goal in history. scored the most world cup final goals. played 2 world cups, won one and was a finalist in the other. the guy controlled games like there was no tomorrow. comparing messi to zizou is an insult.

OP is trying to claim how Messi is the best player at the moment and deserves to win the Ballon D'Or and is not trying to compare him to better players,who lived in past era who were better than him and Ronaldo isn't better than him.

[tommm]

(Original post by KingZizou)
"Replay suggests a bad decision"

stfu.

56 minutes, not 42.

[KingZizou]

(Original post by Jordan_1)
According to your logic Xavi and Iniesta should be compared to legends since they have won everything and 'carry Barcelona' as you say, a team known as the greatest in history by some.

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
So you're telling me that all those nutmegs and passes would have no better chance of being intercepted by, say, Busquets and Dani Alves than they would by Ben Shepherd and Jonathan Wilkes?

lol @ thinking alves is some sort of defensive beast. if no defensive player could handle zidane back in those days what makes you think busquests and alvez can deal with him? chelsea stuck 5 players around messi and stopped him from doing anything, if you put 5 players around zidane you will get punished.

there are some insane passes in that video, and they're insane because the pass is beautiful and inch-perfect, not because the defending is poor.

lol zidane nutmegging rookies doesn't make him a bad player. he is still not losing the ball, still has the perfect first touch/ball control and his passing is still perfect. it has nothing to do with how poor the opposition is. stick a 39 year old messi in that soccer aid match and we'll see if he can pull off the same kind of performance.

[KingZizou]

(Original post by michaelhaych)
But Luis Figo has never won a World Cup. Xavi and Iniesta have. Iniesta scored the winning goal in the final. According to your logic, Figo can't be considered as one of the greatest players ever for that reason. There's your contradiction.

neither figo, xavi, or iniesta should be considered one of the greatest of all time.

what i said was the zidane + figo partnership was a lot more effective than xavi + iniesta.

xavi and iniesta are a marriage, they play together. zidane and figo could control that midfield by themselves, and when playing together were absolute beasts.

edit: zidane has scored the most goals in world cup finals, and he is a midfielder. fat ronaldo has scored the most ever world cup goals. iniesta scoring the winning goal in a WC final doesn't mean ****. zidane and ronaldo have already done that.

[barnetbuzzzz]

(Original post by KingZizou)
lol @ thinking alves is some sort of defensive beast. if no defensive player could handle zidane back in those days what makes you think busquests and alvez can deal with him? chelsea stuck 5 players around messi and stopped him from doing anything, if you put 5 players around zidane you will get punished.

there are some insane passes in that video, and they're insane because the pass is beautiful and inch-perfect, not because the defending is poor.

lol zidane nutmegging rookies doesn't make him a bad player. he is still not losing the ball, still has the perfect first touch/ball control and his passing is still perfect. it has nothing to do with how poor the opposition is. stick a 39 year old messi in that soccer aid match and we'll see if he can pull off the same kind of performance.

Of course, no defender was ever able to control Zidane.
That's why his team scored a grand total of 0 goals in the 2002 World Cup.

Would Zidane have had the space to make those passes if he were playing against actual professional footballers?

I think pretty much any attacking player at a big European club would have been able to control that game in the same way Zidane did because the opposition AREN'T EVEN PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLERS FFS.

[michaelhaych]

And while we're at it, Zidane did not "carry" the French team in 2006. This is a team that contained Thierry Henry and Patrick Vieira at their peaks. Henry had just scored 28 league goals for Arsenal and Trezeguet had scored 23 for Juventus. It had Gallas and Thuram, two of the best defenders of their generation, at the back who were in turn covered by Makélélé and Vieira, two of the best holding players of all time.

Zidane scored 3 goals, 2 of which were penalties.

[KingZizou]

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
Of course, no defender was ever able to control Zidane.
That's why his team scored a grand total of 0 goals in the 2002 World Cup..

was zidane playing in that world cup? no.

was zidane playing in the 2010 world cup? no.

without zidane france are nothing. he did it all alone

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
Would Zidane have had the space to make those passes if he were playing against actual professional footballers?

no, but that has nothing to do with how good the pass was. if messi had that much space he would not have been able to pull off those passes.

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
I think pretty much any attacking player at a big European club would have been able to control that game in the same way Zidane did because the opposition AREN'T EVEN PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLERS FFS.

but he isn't a profesional footballer. he is a RETIRED FOOTBALLER, just like half of his opposition were. they're all on the same boat.



can they control it like that?

[barnetbuzzzz]

(Original post by KingZizou)
no, but that has nothing to do with how good the pass was. if messi had that much space he would not have been able to pull off those passes.

He probably still could. But what he would actually have done is dribble through the entire defence and score. BECAUSE HE'S A ****ING WORLD CLASS PLAYER.
Stop talking nonsense. Messi and Zidane are completely different players anyway so comparing them is ridiculous.

[KingZizou]

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
He probably still could.

haha that's bullocks. while people will still argue who is the best player of all time there's no doubt that zidane is the best passer in the game.

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
But what he would actually have done is dribble through the entire defence and score. BECAUSE HE'S A ****ING WORLD CLASS PLAYER..

well yeah, that's what he would have attempted, and then probably lose the ball and attempt it another 5 times until it eventually works. do you even think messi can do that at the age of 39? his game relies on speed, which he will lose as he grows up.

why dribble past 5 players and risk losing possession when it could all be done with one beautiful pass? zidane was an intelligent player, when he did try to dribble past players it worked 100% of the time. he did everything right and made no mistakes.

and yes, messi is world class, but nothing more. zidane is a LEGEND, like pele, fat ronaldo and maradona.

[KingZizou]

best goal in champions league history (rated by EUFA), and it was in the final:



best penaulty you'll ever see taken. and it was done in the WORLD CUP FINAL, at 0-0 against the best goalkeeper in the world at the time:



zidane only needs to touch the ball once to make people get out of their seats and applaud. don't ever compare messi to this guy

i'm done here

[KingZizou]

(Original post by michaelhaych)
And while we're at it, Zidane did not "carry" the French team in 2006. This is a team that contained Thierry Henry and Patrick Vieira at their peaks. Henry had just scored 28 league goals for Arsenal and Trezeguet had scored 23 for Juventus. It had Gallas and Thuram, two of the best defenders of their generation, at the back who were in turn covered by Makélélé and Vieira, two of the best holding players of all time.

Zidane scored 3 goals, 2 of which were penalties.

haha, are you serious? is that why france lose the WC final after zidane gets sent off?

i supported france because of zidane in that world cup, i watched all of their matches. you're just looking at statistics (that aren't even world cup related). yes he DID carry france. france's finishing was poor, he made so many good would-be assists.

do you not remember how he absolutely raped brazil? he set up henry twice and henry missed both times, then he took a free kick which put the goal on a plate for henry to win them the match. here's his performance vs brazil, how can you say he didn't single-handedly carry france to the WC final? are you insane? he threw performances like this in every WC match:



his world cup performance in a nutshell, look at how he controls every player on the pitch:



shut up about zidane not carrying france in that world cup man i should slap you. yes they had amazing players, but he still carried them and without him they wouldn't have reached the final.

france had zidane in 1998 - they won the world cup.
france had no zidane in 2002 - they scored no goals.
france had a retired zidane in 2006 - they reach the final, and zidane wins the golden ball
france had no zidane in 2010 - they get knocked out in the group stages

[wenger16]

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
Of course, no defender was ever able to control Zidane.
That's why his team scored a grand total of 0 goals in the 2002 World Cup.

Would Zidane have had the space to make those passes if he were playing against actual professional footballers?

I think pretty much any attacking player at a big European club would have been able to control that game in the same way Zidane did because the opposition AREN'T EVEN PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLERS FFS.

Zidane was injured for 2002 world cup; he did not play in first 2 group games and still suffering from injury he was rushed back for 3rd game.

He was the most magical and magnificent player i have ever seen. And btw he did "carry" the french team for 2006 world cup. His performances were just extraordinary he just made football excellent to watch.

I wish people would stop stating goals, assists and pass completion rates. They don't matter actually watch the player and the effect he has on the game. zidane> messi.

[CB91]

(Original post by KingZizou)
this is the thing.. zidane was so great that there is no such thing as "zidane in his prime". even after retiring for 5 years he's still doing everything right and hasn't lost any of his skill.

He was retired from international football, not club football. And even then, from 03 onwards he slowly started to decline and had less effect on games. He just pulled out a few good performances at the 06 WC.

Zidane is rated right up there with the best ever, but for me, Ronaldo was the player of that generation.

[barnetbuzzzz]

(Original post by wenger16)
Zidane was injured for 2002 world cup; he did not play in first 2 group games and still suffering from injury he was rushed back for 3rd game.

He was the most magical and magnificent player i have ever seen. And btw he did "carry" the french team for 2006 world cup. His performances were just extraordinary he just made football excellent to watch.

I wish people would stop stating goals, assists and pass completion rates. They don't matter actually watch the player and the effect he has on the game. zidane> messi.

If you think Zidane is better than Messi, fair enough. I don't think anyone actually has an issue with that.

What annoys me are the constant stream of idiots who set up a thread every couple of days saying "OMG messi isnt the best eva till he wins the wc" which is a totally moronic argument as teams not players win World Cups. NO player can win a tournament single handedly. There was sufficient quality in France's 1998 and 2006 squads for them to do well. Of course Zidane played a very important role but he is a different type of player to Messi and the tactics used to control key players vary from team to team. For example in 2010 Greece basically gave Papastathopoulos the task of following Messi around the pitch for the entire game, so he was always going to have a tough time, did any team ever do that to Zidane?

Also the Argentina 2010 squad was very weak defensively, some of the selections were plain bizarre (leaving out Zanetti and Cambiasso, playing Jonas Gutierrez at RB) so Messi would have had a monumental task on his hands, Zidane couldn't have won the WC for such a shambolic team.

[Xotol]

(Original post by CB91)
Zidane is rated right up there with the best ever, but for me, Ronaldo was the player of that generation.

I would agree with this if Ronaldo didn't suffer those injuries when he was young. I've watched a few matches of him in Barca and he was nothing short of sensational. In all honesty, if he didn't suffer those injuries, he would have easily been the greatest of his generation (I still think Zidane was better as it stands) and was on track to being the GOAT.

[KingZizou]

(Original post by michaelhaych)
remember the 2002 World Cup when a Zidane-led France finished bottom of their group with 1 point? He wasn't that good then, was he?

ah yes i do remember. i forgot how many of those group matches zizou played in, and whether or not he recovered from his bad injury at the time. can you remind me?

[KingZizou]

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
If you think Zidane is better than Messi, fair enough. I don't think anyone actually has an issue with that.

nono, i KNOW zidane is better than messi. comparing the 2 is ridiculous

you can compare fat ronaldo to zidane, that's perfectly acceptable, but messi? come on..

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
What annoys me are the constant stream of idiots who set up a thread every couple of days saying "OMG messi isnt the best eva till he wins the wc" which is a totally moronic argument as teams not players win World Cups. NO player can win a tournament single handedly. There was sufficient quality in France's 1998 and 2006 squads for them to do well. Of course Zidane played a very important role but he is a different type of player to Messi and the tactics used to control key players vary from team to team.

they did have quality in their team in 1998 and 2006, but they never had the BEST team.

do you remember the brazil team in 2006? they were stupid good, and had the best players. zidane ALONE made them look like 10 year olds, he bossed em all over the pitch. he got henry through to the keeper (1 on 1) twice in the match and henry failed to convert both, then zidane's freekick which put the goal on a plate for henry won them the match.

i remember watching every france match with my dad and older brother (we're not french). the man did it all by himself. he made the entire team perform better and turned ribery and malouda into stars.

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
For example in 2010 Greece basically gave Papastathopoulos the task of following Messi around the pitch for the entire game, so he was always going to have a tough time, did any team ever do that to Zidane?

yes, here's the video again. every time he has the ball there are 3 players swarming him:

the difference is that when teams tried to mark zidane he punished them even more and took those players out of the game. teams gave up, they knew that all you can do is sit back when zidane has the ball.

you saw chelsea stick 5 players around messi and that kept him out of the game. messi couldn't do jack, he just accepted that there was nothing he could do. it works against him - zidane on the other hand could not be dealt with. i think it was makelele that said when you're trying to defend against zidane you became a spectator, there was nothing you could do to dispossess him.

(Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
Also the Argentina 2010 squad was very weak defensively, some of the selections were plain bizarre (leaving out Zanetti and Cambiasso, playing Jonas Gutierrez at RB) so Messi would have had a monumental task on his hands, Zidane couldn't have won the WC for such a shambolic team.

lool messi wasn't even the best player for argentina though, tevez was. if the argentina squad was so bad why didn't messi stand out? how can he be considered the best of all time when he can't even put in a half-decent performance internationally.

[desijut]

(Original post by KingZizou)
ah yes i do remember. i forgot how many of those group matches zizou played in, and whether or not he recovered from his bad injury at the time. can you remind me?

I was gonna bring that up. All the other "superstar" players of france (trezeguet, henry, thuram, etc) were there then. And they didnt score a goal. They were even european champions in 2000. The only international competition where France didnt make it to the final was euro 2004, (people still remember the england game? lol)

(Original post by DaveSmith99)
Also this




Messi is the best player of our generation no doubt, but its practically impossible to compare generations.

I love how he's getting HACKED and he still gets on with it.