[Beebumble]

(Original post by HeyyImRyan)
Evidence from the May elections and opinion polls says otherwise, more and more people want an EU referendum and know that no other party will give them it.

They may have done better than they have done better than they have before in their council elections but they have come nowhere near winning a general election. In London they came fifth just after the BNP whilst the Greens done better than ever by coming third they didn't do so well in Liverpool either. The only mayor election they did marginally well is in Salford again hardly enough to win an election.

Of course Greens don't stand much chance either but they are a slightly ahead of UKIP so by saying they're a party no on takes seriously you're basically saying UKIP are too. It's a vocal minority who feel that strongly on an EU referendum they'll make it their sole reason for voting for a party especially seeing as there are talks of Labour offering it now.

The only place I've seen where there even slightly popular is on here and even so The Conservatives, Labour and the Lib Dems are more popular.

Unfortunately, we'll only see Labour and The Conservatives at the helm for a very long time especially seeing as now the Lib Dems have screwed themselves over. The only chance UKIP have is a possible coalition with the Conservatives but even that's a very long shot and probably have the same chance as the Greens have of building a coalition with Labour.

[Teaddict]

(Original post by far far away)
So why is there a Green MP and not a UKIP one?

The reason behind that is quite simple. Although UKIP receive an incredibly higher share of the vote, like the Conservatives, they tend to have broader appeal in that their vote is rather spread, whereas the Greens, similar to Labour, have concentrated votes. For the Greens, their votes tend to be quite strongly concentrated in Norwich and Brighton. UKIP are polling brilliantly in many seats, coming second and in many cases enough to keep the Tories from actually winning a seat, however, because their vote is spread, the majoritarian electoral system prevents them winning a seat.

The UKIP vote is about four times that of the Green vote.

(Original post by Bornblue)
Says the UKIP supporter......
How many more MP's do you have than the Greens?
Even Galloway has more seats that your joke of a party.
However you are splitting the Tory vote so good job.

Why do people keep ignoring electoral mechanics when discussing smaller parties? UKIP consistently polls and receives considerably larger shares of the vote than the Greens in ALL elections. UKIP, like the Greens, are disadvantaged by the electoral system, but further weakened by the lack of concentrated votes which the Greens have in the likes of Brighton and Norwich.

(Original post by internetguru)
I only like it because other parties are bail out morons. I would much rather take a real conservative approach and allow them to simply fail. You have two credible options regulation so they cannot fail or allowing them to fail. The current bail out nonsense is the most corrupt and money wasting option available.

You do realise that there was an anti-bail out element to the Conservative Party? Mainly located in the Tory Right interestingly enough. I totally agree that to bail out any business is absolutely wrong, they should be allowed to fail, or if they are economically important, they should be nationalised outright.

(Original post by Carecup)
You've pretty much summed up the only thing that's stopping me from voting green.

The lack of academic credibility?

(Original post by Beebumble)
They may have done better than they have done better than they have before in their council elections but they have come nowhere near winning a general election. In London they came fifth just after the BNP whilst the Greens done better than ever by coming third they didn't do so well in Liverpool either. The only mayor election they did marginally well is in Salford again hardly enough to win an election.

Electoral mechanics, however, broadly, UKIP garner far more support across the board than the Greens experience. UKIP is more Libertarian-Right than the Conservative Party, they are not going to do well in historically left-leaning constituencies.

Of course Greens don't stand much chance either but they are a slightly ahead of UKIP so by saying they're a party no on takes seriously you're basically saying UKIP are too. It's a vocal minority who feel that strongly on an EU referendum they'll make it their sole reason for voting for a party especially seeing as there are talks of Labour offering it now.

How are they ahead? By what measure?

Unfortunately, we'll only see Labour and The Conservatives at the helm for a very long time especially seeing as now the Lib Dems have screwed themselves over. The only chance UKIP have is a possible coalition with the Conservatives but even that's a very long shot and probably have the same chance as the Greens have of building a coalition with Labour

Interestingly enough, however, I bet a significant minority of the Conservative backbenchers would be quite willing to work with UKIP.

[Carter78]

(Original post by HeyyImRyan)
Germany's control over Europe is also escalating through the EU too - Just look at Angela Merkel known as the "de factor leader of the EU", and the European Central Bank, which controls the Euro, being in Frankfurt, Germany. History shows that Germany definitely enjoy their power, and it's really unsurprising that they're really creeping back into it despite the hindsight which other nations now have regarding Germany and power

I'm surprised no one else on this forum challenged this statement but please drop the idea about Germany as a dominating power because of their history. Have you ever lived in Germany? The country is beautiful, the people are lovely and do not seek to dominate anyone. If anything their angst because of their history goes too far sometimes. (Their reluctance to have ever shared the load of the work in Afghanistan for example).

The reason Germany is so committed to the EU is entirely because of their history. They see their redemption from history as being intrinsically tied up with the EU's success. Germans know full well that whilst Germany enjoys a lot of success from the EU, the relationship goes both ways. The EU as a political entity would not be able to pour money into redevelopment projects within Eastern Europe (or into Spain, Portugal & Greece back in the 80's) if it wasn't for Germany's economic strength.


The central bank is based in Frankfurt because Frankfurt is the largest banking hub within the Eurozone, not because it is a German city. If the UK had joined the Eurozone on its formation then London would've had a very large shot at being the location for the headquarters of the Central Bank.

(Original post by HeyyImRyan)
I want the UK to remain the UK, our own country which looks and feels like the UK, not the same buildings, rules, customs and regulations as every other country in Europe!

From having traveled around Europe I can only say that the UK looks hideous in comparison to other European countries. Plymouth, Birmingham, Sunderland etc are ugly cities in comparison to Munich, Venice etc. But that has more to do with sub-standard redevelopment projects after WW2 than with the EU. Germany in particular spent billions on restoring the character of destroyed cities whilst the UK opted for asbestos ridden flat pack office blocks. Classy? I think not.

Plus, try spending some time in other European countries. I live in Germany and just spent a few days camping in the mountains of Bavaria. I can assure you that the stereotypical idea of Germans - lederhosen wearing, beer drinking mountain dwellers is still going strong despite their advanced membership of the EU (which is deeper and wider in scope than Britain's membership).

I take it that you are a UKIP supporter? I once voted for UKIP in a local election and attended a few meetings but was generally disappointed by the level of jingoism spouted by their typical member. There are many legitimate reasons to oppose the EU, many of which are triumphed by the UKIP official line. But I would take a gamble that when someone goes to the polls to vote UKIP it is not because of any notion of fraudulent budgeting or democratic deficit of the EU commission. It's more likely that your view of "wanting the UK to remain like the UK" is why they vote for UKIP, which in my view is not a legitimate fear of the EU to have.