[Carl Sagan]

Is it from a ideological standpoint or from a practicality standpoint? Or a mix of both? Just curious.

[Aack]

Why do you associate people who want to leave the EU with right wing ideologies?

I would like to see us leave for the following reasons:

- It's undemocratic
- It's way to big for it's boots
- They appoint people to govern nations and support technocratic rule
- There is no accountability, especially not for the financial aspects
- It undermines democracy in individual countries
- No one in the UK has ever been asked if we want to be part of a political union
- All the economic benefits can be achieved through inter-governmental arrangements

Just you wait and see what happens in Greece - in exchange for a bailout, they will jump as soon as the EU demands.

....bring on the hate.

[chrisawhitmore]

(Original post by Aack)
Why do you associate people who want to leave the EU with right wing ideologies?

I would like to see us leave for the following reasons:

- It's undemocratic
- It's way to big for it's boots
- They appoint people to govern nations and support technocratic rule
- There is no accountability, especially not for the financial aspects
- It undermines democracy in individual countries
- No one in the UK has ever been asked if we want to be part of a political union
- All the economic benefits can be achieved through inter-governmental arrangements

Just you wait and see what happens in Greece - in exchange for a bailout, they will jump as soon as the EU demands.

....bring on the hate.

You missed-
-It is phenomenally expensive.
-The common aid programmes are far less efficient and more expensive than doing the same thing through the UK aid programmes.
-They not only lose over 200 million euros to fraud each year (by their own estimate) but actually claim that this is acceptable.
-They have ruined the UK fishing industry through the CFP.
-They have made the farming industry uncompetitive, driving up food prices and charging the taxpayer for the privilege through the CAP.
-The UK has no real voice in the EU. Our 1st and 2nd placed parties at the last EU election sit in groups considered to be opposition.
-The EU has deliberately sought to avoid listening to the British people, changing the form of the constitution to make the lisbon treaty, while keeping the vast majority of the content.
-Restrictive EU legislation costs businesses far more than the value of the common market.
-It feels it has the right to make people immune from prosecution. No politician or civil servant should be above the law.

[chefdave]

Conversely why were the Labour party happy to sign away our hard-won sovereign rights to the EU while simultaneously championing devolution at home?

As a right-winger I'd be entirely happy with a domestic federal setup, there's no contradiction here.

[Nick100]

It's mostly practical for me. If Scotland became independent its government would meddle in the economy more than the UK government does. If the EU gains more powers then it will use them to meddle in the economies of its member nations. If all the EU did was reduce the amount of power each national government had, without gaining any powers of its own, then I would be much more supportive of the EU. Likewise, if I thought an independent Scotland would be more liberal than Scotland as part of the UK (and I didn't think that liberalism could be spread south for some reason) then I would support Scottish independence.

[navarre]

Why do you assume this is just for those with a right wing view?

I'm not right wing, yet I would happily take most powers back from the EU and give it to the UK. Europe is the slowest growing economy in the world, and we should focus more on trading partners in emerging markets such as India, Australia, or Canada, markets that we share cultural and linguistic ties with as well as economic ties.

The world doesn't stop with Europe, and we should set our visors wider than simply the EU.

Plus, the shambolic EU Court of Human Rights annoys most people.

[TCD23]

Here's a little clue, most people Left, Center and Right who have a single clue about what the EU does actually does supports leaving it.

[Carl Sagan]

I realise it's not just right-wingers who want to leave the EU. That's just one part of the question I asked though isn't it?

[L i b]

I don't want to leave the EU.

Some, of course, will just be British nationalists.

(Original post by navarre)
Plus, the shambolic EU Court of Human Rights annoys most people.

The European Court of Human Rights has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU and, given its huge caseload, is far from shambolic.

[Dubliner]

(Original post by chrisawhitmore)
You missed-
-It is phenomenally expensive.
-The common aid programmes are far less efficient and more expensive than doing the same thing through the UK aid programmes.
-They not only lose over 200 million euros to fraud each year (by their own estimate) but actually claim that this is acceptable.
-They have ruined the UK fishing industry through the CFP.
-They have made the farming industry uncompetitive, driving up food prices and charging the taxpayer for the privilege through the CAP.
-The UK has no real voice in the EU. Our 1st and 2nd placed parties at the last EU election sit in groups considered to be opposition.
-The EU has deliberately sought to avoid listening to the British people, changing the form of the constitution to make the lisbon treaty, while keeping the vast majority of the content.
-Restrictive EU legislation costs businesses far more than the value of the common market.
-It feels it has the right to make people immune from prosecution. No politician or civil servant should be above the law.

This is largely a result of British policy though.

The UK could potentially be involved in running the show, given it is the 3rd largest (or basically joint second with France give or take) economy in the EU.

[chrisawhitmore]

(Original post by Dubliner)
This is largely a result of British policy though.

The UK could potentially be involved in running the show, given it is the 3rd largest (or basically joint second with France give or take) economy in the EU.

We could be involved in running the show, but the British public has made it overwhelmingly clear that it has no interest in running this particular show, but would rather see the curtain fall on our involvement with the EU, if you'll permit me to torture a metaphor. Our MEPs form the backbone of both antifederalist groups, the opposition in a parliament which will tolerate no opposition, and as the EU allows change in only one direction, that of more power to Brussels and less power to directly elected officials, we must end our membership.

[ukip72]

Is there something odd about leaving the EU while protecting the union?

[Teaddict]

I find it immensely curious that you have equated Euroscepticism with a right wing ideology. Lest not forget that during the 1980s, it was the left that was sceptical about the European project.

There are numerous reasons for the justification of Euroscepticism and I would argue that the majority of such scepticism is derived from the lack of democratic accountability over the European Union as well as the loss of sovereignty which is inherently linked into the decision making processes as with the democratic element.

Aside from the elements of the European Union, I think political reality is mostly to blame for British Euroscepticism and I do not mean that to suggest the European Union is inherently a bad thing, rather, that the majority of the British Public do not understand the European Union, or its institutions and policies, and the United Kingdom government does little to quash the massive surplus of incorrect information in the nations media.

However, should the British people understand the European Union, it is quite possible such Euroscepticism would still exist, weakened or exacerbated, due to the sovereignty and decision making issues.

It is perhaps worth noting that the European project is, at the moment, hardly enjoying a peak in success? The Union has proven itself for centuries, whilst the European Union is relatively young and appears to be crumbling at the first hurdle, whether this is superficial or indicative of a much larger reality is yet to be seen.

[Snagprophet]

Because whereas we vote for MPs and bring in experienced peers, the European Union uses a faceless commission to decide our laws.

[Patriot Rich]

Because I'm British. I may live in England but I have family from all over this Union, my first name is English and my second is Welsh. The United Kingdom is my country and I'm proud of it's history, I have no such attachment to the EU which seems to be ruled by unelected Bureaucrats such as Baroness Ashton who coincidentally only got her job because of her gender. As much as I like the Germans, the French etc. and I do genuinely have no objection to them, it is clear we have differing interests which are not met by all being in an every integrating EU.

[Mbob]

(Original post by Carl Sagan)
Is it from a ideological standpoint or from a practicality standpoint? Or a mix of both? Just curious.

I think it's primarily, although not entirely, due to practicality. At the moment being a member of the EU compels us to do a lot of things that many on the economic right wing don't like (immigration, social chapter, wealth redistribution between countries, etc.).

On the other hand, I rarely hear people complaining about the fact that we can't have import tariffs, despite the fact that that reduces our 'sovereignty' just as much as many other EU policies, and indeed many people who would like to leave/renegotiate our position would want to remain part of a free trade area.

In the past though it was different. In the 1980s it was the left wing (i.e. Labour) who wanted to withdraw because the EU was promoting free market principles.

[Carter78]

As others have also stated. Wanting to leave the EU should not be directly linked to whether you are a right of left winger. Labour are currently ideologically ambivalent towards European integration, and Gordon Brown's caution over the Euro would have put him alongside die-hard Eurosceptics in other EU countries.

I believe it has more to do with national identity.

There are many scandals of EU governance; the fraud, the unelected Commission (others have made these points before so I won't repeat them blow by blow)....but each EU states responds to these scandals in different way.

The UK regularly (through the national press and political debates) berates the EU for the deficiencies in its policy or governance. - And rightly so. Whilst other nations are barely aware of these deficiencies or actively choose to focus only on the positive aspects of EU membership. - Just think of the neighbouring countries such as Turkey who are literally begging for EU membership. Obviously the democratic deficit and fraudulent budgeting of the EU are of no concern to them.

A case in point: Here in Germany there is almost 0% antagonism towards the EU. There are some who call for a return to the Deutschmark but that is it. The EU is respected and appreciated as a political body, simply because it is within the German mindset to be "good Europeans" - in part because of their ambition to forget their painful history of trying to dominate Europe.

Germans after the Second World War saw their redemption as a nation in the form of forming a European community and acting collectively with other European states. Therefore today they are not instinctively antagonistic towards the EU, and recognise that membership of the Eurozone has brought them many economic benefits. This is despite Germany being subject to the same limitations of sovereignty as the UK.

Sovereignty, democratic deficit or economic mismanagement are never put forward by Germans as reasons to leave the EU. In-fact, these issues are only ever mentioned when efforts are discussed to increase the power of the EU.