2nd and 3rd genert. immigrants struggle to understand basic english, it is revealed
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2150667/Second-generation-migrants-struggle-understand-basic-instructions-English.html
http://uk.onlinenigeria.com/news/37668-second-and-third-generation-migrants-struggle-to-understand-even-basic-instructions-in-english.html
They were born in the UK, but many second and third generation immigrants speak or understand hardly any English, it was revealed today.
Their poor understanding of the language means they are unable to take notes or understand basic instructions on training courses ranging from engineering to electronics.
Experts warn that low standards of English in some minority groups have been blamed for widening ethnic divisions and creating communities where it is the second language.
It was also reported that:
Schools were blamed for failing to teach the language to children well enough. And;
Families deliberately discouraged children from learning English to protect their culture and ensure they could talk to their grandparents.
Philida Schellekens, author of the national standards for translators, warned about English standards last week at a conference run by Cambridge Assessment, the exam board:
She said: 'It upsets me to go into further education colleges and you see Oxbridge material sitting there and, because they {the students} don't have the language to express themselves, they are stuck ... it's not good for them as individuals, but for society as a whole it's a tragedy.'
According to the Sunday Times, Ms Schellekens first analysed the issue of poor English skills among migrant students in 2005 in a study at a Birmingham college and said the same problems were still prevalent today.
'What happened was that these were kids born in the UK [but] their parents or even their grandparents came from abroad, ' she said.
'There were second language speakers where a less-than-sure command of English really [did] hold them back ...their tutors were really concerned.
'[The students] couldn't read a manual, couldn't get the meaning of what they had to do and follow instructions. They couldn't listen and take notes at the same time.'
As a result, students were not able to go on work placements because they could not understand what employers were telling them.
Phil Woolas, the former immigration minister and Labour MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth backed Ms Schellekens.
He told the Sunday Times that poor English was a significant cause of segregated communities in northern towns.
A government spokeswoman said English language courses were available for the jobless and there was £10m to support English teaching in 'areas facing the most significant integration challenges'.
How on earth has this managed to come about, where there are 3rd generation immigrants that STILL cannot properly co operate using English? What solutions can we bring to this, maybe more english teaching courses in minority areas if you were to take the liberal approach? Further cost to the taxpayer which he didnt ask for, having to pay to educate half the 3rd world and their offspring, if you were to look at it from another point of view. 3rd generation and they havnt even got the audacity in this time to learn/teach the language of the country they live in properly.
http://uk.onlinenigeria.com/news/37668-second-and-third-generation-migrants-struggle-to-understand-even-basic-instructions-in-english.html
They were born in the UK, but many second and third generation immigrants speak or understand hardly any English, it was revealed today.
Their poor understanding of the language means they are unable to take notes or understand basic instructions on training courses ranging from engineering to electronics.
Experts warn that low standards of English in some minority groups have been blamed for widening ethnic divisions and creating communities where it is the second language.
It was also reported that:
Schools were blamed for failing to teach the language to children well enough. And;
Families deliberately discouraged children from learning English to protect their culture and ensure they could talk to their grandparents.
Philida Schellekens, author of the national standards for translators, warned about English standards last week at a conference run by Cambridge Assessment, the exam board:
She said: 'It upsets me to go into further education colleges and you see Oxbridge material sitting there and, because they {the students} don't have the language to express themselves, they are stuck ... it's not good for them as individuals, but for society as a whole it's a tragedy.'
According to the Sunday Times, Ms Schellekens first analysed the issue of poor English skills among migrant students in 2005 in a study at a Birmingham college and said the same problems were still prevalent today.
'What happened was that these were kids born in the UK [but] their parents or even their grandparents came from abroad, ' she said.
'There were second language speakers where a less-than-sure command of English really [did] hold them back ...their tutors were really concerned.
'[The students] couldn't read a manual, couldn't get the meaning of what they had to do and follow instructions. They couldn't listen and take notes at the same time.'
As a result, students were not able to go on work placements because they could not understand what employers were telling them.
Phil Woolas, the former immigration minister and Labour MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth backed Ms Schellekens.
He told the Sunday Times that poor English was a significant cause of segregated communities in northern towns.
A government spokeswoman said English language courses were available for the jobless and there was £10m to support English teaching in 'areas facing the most significant integration challenges'.
How on earth has this managed to come about, where there are 3rd generation immigrants that STILL cannot properly co operate using English? What solutions can we bring to this, maybe more english teaching courses in minority areas if you were to take the liberal approach? Further cost to the taxpayer which he didnt ask for, having to pay to educate half the 3rd world and their offspring, if you were to look at it from another point of view. 3rd generation and they havnt even got the audacity in this time to learn/teach the language of the country they live in properly.
(edited 11 years ago)
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Original post by Mufasaa
Ahh, 'Daily Mail Reporter', the most truthful and accurate reporter in the world. Good to see them sticking to their policy of providing no stats or figures in their articles.
There is two sources though I too would like to see some stats and figures as I've never encountered this despite both my primary school and secondary school had more ethnic minorities than white British children.
Original post by Nightstar-27
There is two sources though I too would like to see some stats and figures as I've never encountered this despite both my primary school and secondary school had more ethnic minorities than white British children.
Sources =/= evidence though. I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find any 'problem' I wanted to.
One thing I've noticed about westerners, is that when we encounter a problem. We assign blame rather than fixing the problem. This just exacerbates social divisions. Have you ever lived abroad and tried to pick up the local language, OP? It's extremely difficult. Especially if you can't afford lessons and are trying to do it by immersion alone.
Surely it says something about our education system, that a 2nd/3rd generation migrant can go through the entire education system, leave school and still not have picked up English.
Surely it says something about our education system, that a 2nd/3rd generation migrant can go through the entire education system, leave school and still not have picked up English.
Original post by screenager2004
One thing I've noticed about westerners, is that when we encounter a problem. We assign blame rather than fixing the problem. This just exacerbates social divisions. Have you ever lived abroad and tried to pick up the local language, OP? It's extremely difficult. Especially if you can't afford lessons and are trying to do it by immersion alone.
Surely it says something about our education system, that a 2nd/3rd generation migrant can go through the entire education system, leave school and still not have picked up English.
Surely it says something about our education system, that a 2nd/3rd generation migrant can go through the entire education system, leave school and still not have picked up English.
Why should we have to pick up the problem?
How ironic that you say we "assign blame rather than fixing the problem" and what you had just done is blame ourselves; seemingly it is our responsibility (and our education system) that has failed these 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants.
Bull****, if they want to stay here they should be EXPECTED to learn and use English or they can move. How about a policy of being fluent in English in order to receive benefits?
Original post by im so academic
Why should we have to pick up the problem?
How ironic that you say we "assign blame rather than fixing the problem" and what you had just done is blame ourselves; seemingly it is our responsibility (and our education system) that has failed these 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants.
Bull****, if they want to stay here they should be EXPECTED to learn and use English or they can move. How about a policy of being fluent in English in order to receive benefits?
How ironic that you say we "assign blame rather than fixing the problem" and what you had just done is blame ourselves; seemingly it is our responsibility (and our education system) that has failed these 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants.
Bull****, if they want to stay here they should be EXPECTED to learn and use English or they can move. How about a policy of being fluent in English in order to receive benefits?
Responsibility =/= blame.
Its a problem in our society, it is our responsibility to deal with it. Doesn't mean we are solely to blame for it though. Sometimes problems just happen. It needs to be tackled though.
Clearly you have never lived abroad or had to learn a second language.
oh I like how I am being called a 2nd generation immigrant..... this is terrible, I've seen british kids who are unable to speak english properly aswell, but oh they are'nt immigrants are they.... wow, how low can you go.
Oh and just so you know, my parents moved from India at an early age and their english is as though they were born and brought up here, so dont post up rubbish, its a problem of education in certain areas...
Oh and just so you know, my parents moved from India at an early age and their english is as though they were born and brought up here, so dont post up rubbish, its a problem of education in certain areas...
Original post by badcheesecrispy
How on earth has this managed to come about, where there are 3rd generation immigrants that STILL cannot properly co operate using English? What solutions can we bring to this, maybe more english teaching courses in minority areas if you were to take the liberal approach? Further cost to the taxpayer which he didnt ask for, having to pay to educate half the 3rd world and their offspring, if you were to look at it from another point of view. 3rd generation and they havnt even got the audacity in this time to learn/teach the language of the country they live in properly.
How on earth has this managed to come about, where there are 3rd generation immigrants that STILL cannot properly co operate using English? What solutions can we bring to this, maybe more english teaching courses in minority areas if you were to take the liberal approach? Further cost to the taxpayer which he didnt ask for, having to pay to educate half the 3rd world and their offspring, if you were to look at it from another point of view. 3rd generation and they havnt even got the audacity in this time to learn/teach the language of the country they live in properly.
oh my bad... didnt read this bit, get off your high horse mate, "they havnt even got the audacity in this time to learn/teach the language of the country they live in properly." actually the majority do, if you havent noticed most are actually high flying big hitters in exams too, I see you're just fishing for neg rep, how sad, find something better to do with your life. Moron.
Yeah first off, stop putting the blame on us '' Immigrants.'' We are rightfully citizens of the country. May I also remind you that the Daily Mail is a racist newspaper.
In my school, White British children don't want to learn. They are less concerned of their future and can't even read a book, let alone the apostrophes. They laugh every time the teacher is trying to learn the lesson. I tell you, how about those British children that don't give a damn about their future?
In my school, White British children don't want to learn. They are less concerned of their future and can't even read a book, let alone the apostrophes. They laugh every time the teacher is trying to learn the lesson. I tell you, how about those British children that don't give a damn about their future?
Original post by The Marshall
They laugh every time the teacher is trying to learn the lesson. I tell you, how about those British children that don't give a damn about their future?
Original post by screenager2004
One thing I've noticed about westerners humans, is that when we encounter a problem. We assign blame rather than fixing the problem. This just exacerbates social divisions. Have you ever lived abroad and tried to pick up the local language, OP? It's extremely difficult. Especially if you can't afford lessons and are trying to do it by immersion alone.
Surely it says something about our education system, that a 2nd/3rd generation migrant can go through the entire education system, leave school and still not have picked up English.
Surely it says something about our education system, that a 2nd/3rd generation migrant can go through the entire education system, leave school and still not have picked up English.
I don't think it's specifically a western thing to assign blame rather than to just try and fix the problem. It's a universal thing.
But I agree it does say something about our education system. How have they got to further education (presumably A-levels or equivalent) without being able to speak English properly? Does that mean a standard level of English isn't required to get decent GCSEs?
This is absolutely ridiculous.
I think you'll find that there are plenty of native Englishmen who can't understand English either. Channel4 did a documentary about it a while ago:
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v15337868mRAhMpnp?h1=Can%27t+Read%2C+Can%27t+Write+[Part+1]
But don't let the truth get in the away of your racist ramblings!
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v15337868mRAhMpnp?h1=Can%27t+Read%2C+Can%27t+Write+[Part+1]
But don't let the truth get in the away of your racist ramblings!
lol there are no sources in that Daily Mail article, they just say "experts say..." and "it was revealed today that..." without citing any sources.
Anyway the good news folks is that as all these immigrant children can't speak English they won't be able to get jobs so the myth of immigration taking away job opportunities from the natives is exposed once and for all.
In other news it was revealed today that experts say my nine inch cock is the secret of my high pos rep on TSR
Anyway the good news folks is that as all these immigrant children can't speak English they won't be able to get jobs so the myth of immigration taking away job opportunities from the natives is exposed once and for all.
In other news it was revealed today that experts say my nine inch cock is the secret of my high pos rep on TSR
Original post by screenager2004
One thing I've noticed about westerners, is that when we encounter a problem. We assign blame rather than fixing the problem. This just exacerbates social divisions. Have you ever lived abroad and tried to pick up the local language, OP? It's extremely difficult. Especially if you can't afford lessons and are trying to do it by immersion alone.
Surely it says something about our education system, that a 2nd/3rd generation migrant can go through the entire education system, leave school and still not have picked up English.
Surely it says something about our education system, that a 2nd/3rd generation migrant can go through the entire education system, leave school and still not have picked up English.
For a 1st gen or fresh off the boat i agree with you. I would also agree with you in regards to schooling up to a point, however thier comes a point when the indavidual in question must take the blame. Blame cuts both ways.
and for second and third generations - native britains to not be able to speak the second most spoken language in the world is disgraceful for both the education system and the family he comes from.
however considering it is from the Daily Mail i wouldnt be too inclined to take it seriously.
and that being said how many british people living in Spain or Duabi who cant speak the host language?
As has been said before, trusting the Daily Mail is really cautioned. I myself am a first generation immigrant, as are some of my cousins. Be rest assured that we all can speak fluent English - everyone who is able to go to university has gone to university (in England). For most part, we get on pretty well with our neighbours - and we live in the North. There obviously may be exceptions, but I think this is just a lot of tosh.
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