Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Why are doctors seemingly so incompetent?

Announcements Posted on
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RollerBall)
    He didn't miss the point, you just don't have one. Anyone with an understanding knows this, you're just too ignorant. Not only are cons in America the same age as the ones in the UK the age you start doesn't make a difference.

    There are post grads in my year and I was straight from school, even at this stage (second year) I've had my consultants score me higher than post-grads.
    I said it originally on the basis of personality - imo selecting the small bunch of people who work hard and do a load of work experience when they are 15-17 will lead to a bunch of rather closed off people as doctors - as many people testify to! In fact one of the main grips about 'why are doctors seemingly so incompetent' is that they don't listen to patients, don't take them seriously and are very unsympathetic and consequently giving people the wrong treatment/not treating them at all. Essentially not having much idea about the real world.

    Indeed, how your peers are rated by other consultants is largely irrelevant, because it is those doctors who are already rated highly and who are qualified that are providing what seems to many people an incompetent service.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jamie)
    But in america the doctors in charge of your care are younger than those in the uk. because the training is so much shorter.
    hence i don't get your point.
    My point: 16-17 is too young to select someone for medical training.

    Its not as if I'm saying I think doctors would be better if they trained till they were 28 - I'm saying that they would be better if they were selected on their academic work and personality when they were 20-21 rather than pretty young immature teenagers (16-17).

    Medical skill is here and there - there is no reason to suppose that the actual learning element of a medical degree wouldn't be doable by any reasonably academic person. The key is having the insight and the personality to use the bare bones facts to diagnose and treat effectively, both empirically and as defined by the patient.

    Hence the idea that doctors chosen for medical school should be chosen when they are actually adults :rolleyes:
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RollerBall)
    He didn't miss the point, you just don't have one. Anyone with an understanding knows this, you're just too ignorant. Not only are cons in America the same age as the ones in the UK the age you start doesn't make a difference.

    There are post grads in my year and I was straight from school, even at this stage (second year) I've had my consultants score me higher than post-grads.

    I probably havent read enough however what do grades have to do with it?

    As to whoever was argueing whether its right to take 18 year olds into medicine? It depends on the individual. I think if i had been in medicine at 18 i would have cracked up, i needed to go insane and do some crazy stuff first and i didnt want medicine to be the only thing i ever did. However alot of people who i know have taken to being a doctor at a young age amazingly.

    Medicine probably wont be the last thing i do, i'll probably change career 10-15 years in.
    #6

    South Asian doctors seem to be the worst and the NHS has so many of them.

    It's like they never got trained in bedside manner and the number of bad experiences I've had with them is just ridiculous, especially relating to mental health. It's like mental health problems don't exist in their countries. My friend got told she's depressed because she wasn't married and my mental health problems are brushed off as being in my imagination. It amazes me these people aren't fired. But then, it is the NHS, you probably have to kill dozens of people to lose your job. :rolleyes:
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by t0ffee)
    I said it originally on the basis of personality - imo selecting the small bunch of people who work hard and do a load of work experience when they are 15-17 will lead to a bunch of rather closed off people as doctors - as many people testify to! In fact one of the main grips about 'why are doctors seemingly so incompetent' is that they don't listen to patients, don't take them seriously and are very unsympathetic and consequently giving people the wrong treatment/not treating them at all. Essentially not having much idea about the real world.

    Indeed, how your peers are rated by other consultants is largely irrelevant, because it is those doctors who are already rated highly and who are qualified that are providing what seems to many people an incompetent service.
    So, basically you're saying that the reason all your doctors are unsympathetic/poor treatment decisions/ignoring patients is that they went into medicine at a young age? So, do you know what age they all went into medicine? Are all the "good" doctors all postgrads?

    Jeez, this post is so full of holes. You don't know how we're marked, you don't know what consulants are marking us, you don't know what age the good/bad consulants entered medicine, you don't know how certain age groups deal with medicine, you literally don't know jack ****. One of the biggest factors in medical applications now (In fact, I was asked at EVERY interview) was how I dealt with stress/how I escaped from medicine/gauging how well rounded I am/do I have other interests that developed me thus far.

    I would hardly describe the extra three years in university getting ****ered and messing around as "real world experience" that is essential when they're going to be doing another five years anyway. Medical students don't live in some sort of bubble where all you do is work/sleep/eat, we get drunk, we screw about, we do sports, we socialise just like every other degree. What sort of justification is there that you require an eight years as opposed to five to gain this magical "insight"? Do you think every student who does a regular three year degree is incompetent and without insight into the "real world" until they turn 27? I mean, you must think every professional that does a 3 year degree is lacking insight since they haven't had eight years in university! What about dentists? Are they all useless too? If a student at 18 can demonstrate they have the abilities and skills that a 21 year old does what difference does that make?

    Frankly, your ignorance is impressive.

    (Original post by fairy spangles)
    I probably havent read enough however what do grades have to do with it?

    As to whoever was argueing whether its right to take 18 year olds into medicine? It depends on the individual. I think if i had been in medicine at 18 i would have cracked up, i needed to go insane and do some crazy stuff first and i didnt want medicine to be the only thing i ever did. However alot of people who i know have taken to being a doctor at a young age amazingly.

    Medicine probably wont be the last thing i do, i'll probably change career 10-15 years in.
    I wasn't just talking about grades. We're rated on attitude, empathy, knowledge, maturity, etc.

    Hence, it was relevent to compare undergrads to postgrads in medicine when they take stuff like this into account.
    • 10 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by t0ffee)
    In fact one of the main grips about 'why are doctors seemingly so incompetent' is that they don't listen to patients, don't take them seriously and are very unsympathetic and consequently giving people the wrong treatment/not treating them at all. Essentially not having much idea about the real world.
    That's sod all to do with age. One of the nicest doctors I've had dealing with is young.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RollerBall)
    So, basically you're saying that the reason all your doctors are unsympathetic/poor treatment decisions/ignoring patients is that they went into medicine at a young age? So, do you know what age they all went into medicine? Are all the "good" doctors all postgrads?

    Jeez, this post is so full of holes. You don't know how we're marked, you don't know what consulants are marking us, you don't know what age the good/bad consulants entered medicine, you don't know how certain age groups deal with medicine, you literally don't know jack ****. One of the biggest factors in medical applications now (In fact, I was asked at EVERY interview) was how I dealt with stress/how I escaped from medicine/gauging how well rounded I am/do I have other interests that developed me thus far.

    I would hardly describe the extra three years in university getting ****ered and messing around as "real world experience" that is essential when they're going to be doing another five years anyway. Medical students don't live in some sort of bubble where all you do is work/sleep/eat, we get drunk, we screw about, we do sports, we socialise just like every other degree. What sort of justification is there that you require an eight years as opposed to five to gain this magical "insight"? Do you think every student who does a regular three year degree is incompetent and without insight into the "real world" until they turn 27? I mean, you must think every professional that does a 3 year degree is lacking insight since they haven't had eight years in university! What about dentists? Are they all useless too? If a student at 18 can demonstrate they have the abilities and skills that a 21 year old does what difference does that make?

    Frankly, your ignorance is impressive.
    Basically having some experience in a normal lifestyle to get your head sorted out - barring that extensive and long term work in a caring role outside the doctor patient environment.

    Perhaps, to take it to extremes, all doctors should do a nursing degree before a medical one to develop their sense of empathy and their sense of working in a caring role.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OU Student)
    That's sod all to do with age. One of the nicest doctors I've had dealing with is young.
    Its due to personality types. Actually my point was those who excel in med school admissions at 17 (which is very competitive) may not actually be the best caring systematic people for medical school - and that the system misses out tons of great people because they don't have the gcse performance or depressing work experience crammed in between 15 and 17 (that in many cases, only a pretty weird person would do).

    As such if you weight till people have done an undergrad degree, far more people can come through and hopefully the best doctors and people can be selected, rather than the rather crazy teenagers who just work themselves to the bone then down some more.
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    My experience of doctors and what I have seen from a family perspective is almost all positive, and this with a cousin who is a nurse.

    My main issues with the medical profession have been getting appointments.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I'm not too sure about this seething age debate...

    Is it possible to select those capable of becoming exceptional dctors at age 18? Obviously yes.

    Should there be a place for graduate entry? Most definitely.

    Are two two mutually exclusive? Erm...no.
    • 10 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by barnetlad)
    My main issues with the medical profession have been getting appointments.
    Same. I'm not fussy who I see either. A relative tried to book a doctors appointment last week (or the end of the week before) and has to wait until June 15th. Mad.
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by t0ffee)
    Basically having some experience in a normal lifestyle to get your head sorted out - barring that extensive and long term work in a caring role outside the doctor patient environment.

    Perhaps, to take it to extremes, all doctors should do a nursing degree before a medical one to develop their sense of empathy and their sense of working in a caring role.
    Troll.

    Either that or you need to take a while to understand that you're entirely ignorant on this topic and you're arguing with somebody who is experiencing it themselves every day. You're just coming across as stupid.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Just as a nugget of experience, one of my friends is a kick boxer and he hurt his ribs after a big training accident so he went to see his GP. The GP just said that it was regular pain, gave him some pain relief and dismissed him, it wasn't until he next saw his Personal Trainer who told him he had dislocated it and had to manipulate it back into place.

    Figured I'd throw it out there, I've not really had much problem with my Doctors.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RollerBall)
    Troll.

    Either that or you need to take a while to understand that you're entirely ignorant on this topic and you're arguing with somebody who is experiencing it themselves every day. You're just coming across as stupid.
    Simply because he's disagreeing with you does not make him stupid! He's entitled to his opinion whatever you may think of it.
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Deeduldum)
    Simply because he's disagreeing with you does not make him stupid! He's entitled to his opinion whatever you may think of it.
    I never said he was stupid. I said his opinion is making him come across that way. Sure, he's entitled to his opinion, like I can say that a dictatorship is way better than democracy. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it but it would still make me look like a ****ing moron.
    • 5 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rookai)
    Just as a nugget of experience, one of my friends is a kick boxer and he hurt his ribs after a big training accident so he went to see his GP. The GP just said that it was regular pain, gave him some pain relief and dismissed him, it wasn't until he next saw his Personal Trainer who told him he had dislocated it and had to manipulate it back into place.

    Figured I'd throw it out there, I've not really had much problem with my Doctors.
    Type in dislocated rib into google and look at the first 30 pages.
    I didn't see a proper medical page in there (one foreign paper). But lots of chiropracters and sports physios.

    Which likely means that such a thing either doesn't exist.

    Which explains why I've never seen one...
    • 28 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I once had a doctor let in his daughter in the middle of the appointment who just sat there waiting for us to finish talking. Gross breach of proper practice there I think.

    I've seen quite a few obvious mistakes made by doctors. It's no reflection on the profession generally, but I do occasionally wonder how some doctors I see got to where they are.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jamie)
    Type in dislocated rib into google and look at the first 30 pages.
    I didn't see a proper medical page in there (one foreign paper). But lots of chiropracters and sports physios.

    Which likely means that such a thing either doesn't exist.

    Which explains why I've never seen one...
    I found three references to 'dislocated rib' in titles of journal articles on the first page of a Pub Med search.
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Deeduldum)
    I found three references to 'dislocated rib' in titles of journal articles on the first page of a Pub Med search.
    Read the papers, they're all related to thoracic/rib fractures.

    Looking at journal titles as a legitimate source. Pleaaaaaase.
    • 5 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Deeduldum)
    I found three references to 'dislocated rib' in titles of journal articles on the first page of a Pub Med search.
    I said google, and in any case looking at those papers would suggest that the cause of these 'dislocations' is well above and beyond simple trauma. The trauma one is a slight mistranslation of the word dislocation and actually means displaced. [hence why the paper is in german].

    Kudos for looking though, it has made my point.

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: June 5, 2012
New on TSR

Student in a Million awards

All the results from our prize-giving night

Article updates
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.