[-Simon-]

Throw Dawkins books at him?

[DolallyDucky]

(Original post by Sir Fox)
Had a close female friend who is religious, and by religious I mean really religious, no sex before marriage, praying every day etc. I'm the complete opposite, I believe in nothing and nobody, am very sceptical in terms of religions and usually feel the urgent desire to facepalm whenever I come across religious people. So basically close to the two outer ends of the scale. We had a lot of really interesting discussions, I made a lot of fun of her but in the end there were just no arguments and points left. She kept believing in her grown-ups fairytales, I kept rejecting every bit of it.

You can't argue with religious people, as soon as you win the upper hand by arguments (which I usually did and she admitted it) they hide behind their god's omnipotence and just claim it's all beyond verifiable claims and science.

What I actually highly esteemed about her was that she followed her belief strictly - not the kind of 'self-service' religion most people pracitce today, choosing only the aspects they like about their religion and simply rejecting the rest out of convenience.

I've had the same experience! My best friend, I've known her since I was a baby, have both always had the same views on pretty much everything and suddenly she became a proper hardcore Christian. At first we all shunned her, it was scary and we didn't understand what the hell was going through her mind. But over time I've realised it can be interesting to have a new take on things and question you're thoughts on things i.e she was telling me about a Christian couple she knew whose first KISS was on their wedding day *I still can't get my head around that*

I think you have to be very very accepting and just really try to make the effort at first but it does become easier! It may be a good idea though to set boundaries to ensure he doesn't try to convert you or anything, having that talk with my best friend was one of the scariest things I had to do, but as a very strong athiest, it was very important personally to me, that she didn't shove her religion in my face.

There is more to a person than their religion, you just have to accept it is a part of them now but they are still the person you became friends with. Good luck

(Sorry to the person I quoted for having to be notified of this ramble :L:L)

[AdvanceAndVanquish]

(Original post by Chrizzle94)
What the hell do you do?

My best friend and I used to debate and criticise all sorts of philosophies and religions. It was interesting because neither of us were religious.

But now my friend has read the Bible and accepts Jesus and God. He prays every night and goes to church several times a week.

I don't want to let religion get between us but it seems almost impossible because our opinions differ so much now (atheism/humanism and christianity)

EDIT: I really hope I don't sound intolerant here because I have tried so, SO hard to accept it. I just can't, though.

Wth any luck it might just be a phase. Young people experiment with lots of different philosophies and identities.

[Hylean]

Topic, people, stay on it. Live it, love it, be it.

(Original post by electriic_ink)
*snips*

And unless you have proof that the OP's mate's church is demanding money out of him or damaging him physically or mentally, you can save the anti-religion rant for another thread. If no harm is being done to the person and they are not causing harm to others, then we should be happy for them as they have obviously found something they felt they were missing.

[hannaaahlima]

I think u should neither un-friend him neither try and change his mind because he is now following a religion. I have some religious friends and the debates we have are very interesting. but we always set up a limit. for example, we should not be disrespectful and as soon as the debate is over, we come back to normal. it's all about respecting each other and you don't even have to discuss religion with him if you don't want to. just talk about other things. of course, you may lose a bit of contact because he will probably not want to go out clubbing and drinking if that's the case, but other than this, i think u should try and keep your friend. do your part, and if he doesn't do his, then it was not worth it!

[electriic_ink]

(Original post by Hylean)
Topic, people, stay on it. Live it, love it, be it.


And unless you have proof that the OP's mate's church is demanding money out of him or damaging him physically or mentally, you can save the anti-religion rant for another thread. If no harm is being done to the person and they are not causing harm to others, then we should be happy for them as they have obviously found something they felt they were missing.

Please don't misrepresent what I said. It wasn't an anti-religious rant. I was addressing your point that the OP should be happy that his friend had joined a religion.

But, if it makes you happy I will tow the official line and retract everything I said. It's a wonderful thing that OP has become a Christian and we should respect religious belief as a legitimate alternative to scientific thought

[TheHistoryStudent]

(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
You're welcome. I'm a practicing (albeit liberal) Catholic with a very strong faith and I have friends who are militant atheists. We do occasionally fight and I did stop talking to one of them at one point but we talked it through and my friend agreed to not be so deliberately obnoxious, and I agreed I would try and lighten up a bit. Our friendship is better than ever and we talk about religion a lot

If only the whole "religion v atheism" debate could just play out like that... the world would be a much easier/better place to live in.

[mimx]

... I find a new friend?

[Hylean]

(Original post by electriic_ink)
Please don't misrepresent what I said. It wasn't an anti-religious rant. I was addressing your point that the OP should be happy that his friend had joined a religion.

But, if it makes you happy I will tow the official line and retract everything I said. It's a wonderful thing that OP has become a Christian and we should respect religious belief as a legitimate alternative to scientific thought

It was an anti-religion rant. It was in response to my post, and as I stated, unless you can prove that all you said applies to the church, it doesn't really matter, as all you've got is supposition and a chip on your shoulder.

And the petty shot at the end is beneath you.

[Evangelica]

(Original post by Chrizzle94)
I'll be brutally honest here. I have a problem with it. And I don't think I'm proud of that.

What specifically is your problem with it? Is it that he has suddenly changed? Does he no longer act like he is your friend? Does he no longer love and respect you? If that's the case then yes, I get being bothered by it. If it's because his views no longer match up with yours, then it's a good time to start learning acceptance, not in just what matches your opinions but in others' opinions too.

Please don't think I'm specifically aiming this at you, but in general, when we think of bigots we think of racists, homophobes or sexists but swapping one form of prejudice for another isn't going to help. Shunning someone for their religious beliefs is just another form of being bigoted. I think tolerance in cases like these is essential, and acceptance often better.

N.B. My closest friends all have differing opinions on whether there is or is not a God and to different degrees; it doesn't stop us being close.

[electriic_ink]

(Original post by Hylean)
It was an anti-religion rant. It was in response to my post, and as I stated, unless you can prove that all you said applies to the church, it doesn't really matter, as all you've got is supposition and a chip on your shoulder.

I'm sorry if I have a chip on my shoulder about an organisation whose sole purpose is to propagate uncertainties as fact.

I said that the church will try their best to get money out of the OP's friend, citing collection plates. I said that the church will try and encourage him to raise any children of his into the faith (this is mental abuse since it doesn't give the child a fair choice). I said that the church deliberately mislead people who attend their services by preaching their doctrine as fact. I don't understand which part of this you think is conjecture. I don't understand why you think this is irrelevant to the OP's situation: him joining the Church will affect his finances and will be a negative influence on his children's lives. I do not regard it as a cause for celebration.

And the petty shot at the end is beneath you.

I'm glad you think so much of me.

[Hylean]

(Original post by electriic_ink)
I'm sorry if I have a chip on my shoulder about an organisation whose sole purpose is to propagate uncertainties as fact.

I said that the church will try their best to get money out of the OP's friend, citing collection plates. I said that the church will try and encourage him to raise any children of his into the faith (this is mental abuse since it doesn't give the child a fair choice). I said that the church deliberately mislead people who attend their services by preaching their doctrine as fact. I don't understand which part of this you think is conjecture.

I'm glad you think so much of me.

Well all of it, as not all churches use collection plates and it is not required for members to donate; not every domination puts emphasis on children, Baptists refuse to baptise people under twelve for example (and let's ignore the woefully uninformed comment about child abuse, unless your parents abused you as a child by teaching you just about anything); they do not deliberately mislead as funnily enough they also believe their doctrine is fact and unfortunately for all of us, you can't prove it isn't fact and you can't "deliberately mislead" people if you are convinced you're going in the right direction. So, ultimately, unless you have some proof he is being physically or mentally harmed, coerced or forced to harm others, what exactly is wrong with him finding religion? Zero.

So really, it's all conjecture mixed with some anti-religion zeal.

[electriic_ink]

(Original post by Hylean)
Well all of it, as not all churches use collection plates and it is not required for members to donate

If you become a regular attendee of any church, it is definitely "encouraged".

not every domination puts emphasis on children, Baptists refuse to baptise people under twelve for example (and let's ignore the woefully uninformed comment about child abuse, unless your parents abused you as a child by teaching you just about anything);

Nice try.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bapt...a&channel=fflb

Baptists do try to influence children.

And of course it's child abuse. To teach any child anything as fact which may not be true is damaging, particular if it's someone the child looks up to who's doing it.

they do not deliberately mislead as funnily enough they also believe their doctrine is fact

Of course they believe it to be fact but they know that it is just a belief so there's a chance that it isn't fact. I believe that God doesn't exist but I know that there's a chance he does.

and unfortunately for all of us, you can't prove it isn't fact

Argument from ignorance.

So, ultimately, unless you have some proof he is being physically or mentally harmed, coerced or forced to harm others, what exactly is wrong with him finding religion? Zero.

Religion necessarily harms people since it teaches them to suspend rational judgement on the questions concerning the supernatural.

[Chrizzle94]

(Original post by Evangelica)
What specifically is your problem with it? Is it that he has suddenly changed?

It's mostly that he's suddenly changed that gets me

(Original post by Evangelica)
Please don't think I'm specifically aiming this at you, but in general, when we think of bigots we think of racists, homophobes or sexists but swapping one form of prejudice for another isn't going to help. Shunning someone for their religious beliefs is just another form of being bigoted. I think tolerance in cases like these is essential, and acceptance often better.

I completely agree with you, sure, but it's more the fact that he's changed.

(Original post by electriic_ink)
Religion necessarily harms people since it teaches them to suspend rational judgement on the questions concerning the supernatural.

I'm sorry but is this really necessary? This is not a chance for you to debate religion on this thread; I just wanted opinions with how to deal with this situation and I've got a wide variety of responses...it's only you who is trying to spark up a debate.

[Bardamu]

(Original post by electriic_ink)
A cult is defined as:

"A group of people with a religious, philosophical or cultural identity sometimes viewed as a sect, often existing on the margins of society or exploitative towards its members.

That isn't a particularly good/useful definition. Atheism fits your definition of a cult.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[Chrizzle94]

(Original post by dreahxo)
I think if anything, it is a blessed thing for your friend to have found Jesus Christ, and I hope you will see the light too

Ha, yeah, and I hope you come back to planet Earth. Maybe we'll pass each other on the way?

(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
Well clearly he feels otherwise. That's not to say he's right, or that he's necessarily wrong. People don't just become religious for no reason, so it must be offering him something

Have you actually talked to him about it?

Yes I have but I'm yet to find out why. Basically there's a lot more to talk about and I don't know how things are going to turn out.

[Hylean]

(Original post by Chrizzle94)
Yes I have but I'm yet to find out why. Basically there's a lot more to talk about and I don't know how things are going to turn out.

Honestly, as long as you approach the subject politely and don't ridicule him, it should go fine. Just remember, you don't like religious people shoving their beliefs down your throat, so don't assume he will appreciate it if you do it. Don't try and convert him. Just talk it over and try to understand why he's gone the way he has. If he wants to debate, then debate, but don't set out trying to convert him.

[FrigidSymphony]

I find it impossible to be friends with overly religious people. Something in the way they think and look at the world just disgusts me on a profound level. If one of my friends turned to God (unlikely, as I pick my friends carefully and they're all quite committed to intelligence), I would probably, and very sadly, not be able to continue the rapport.