[daydreamnation]

(Original post by ronald_mcdonald)
Exactly aljolson, I'm glad that someone agrees with me. We need to stand together and act against people like this "Aphatic Cosmos" who think that murdering babies is okay.

the mob justice of the catholic church in britain is, thankfully, past its prime

[Bardamu]

I think people need to calm down for a moment. Evidently, none of you are Catholic. That doesn't mean that you can't consider the Catholic viewpoint.

Those twins were nine year old girls too. Not literally, but the sanctity of life is inviolable. The three lives were of equal value. Just for a moment, pretend that you have the two nine year old girls on one hand, and one nine year old girl on the other. What would you do, within the context of this hypothetical situation?

[Tullia]

(Original post by Bardamu)
Just for a moment, pretend that you have the two nine year old girls on one hand, and one nine year old girl on the other. What would you do, within the context of this hypothetical situation?

Outstanding hypothetical situation. Unfortunately, they couldn't philosophise and had to act.

[Bardamu]

(Original post by Tullia)
Outstanding hypothetical situation. Unfortunately, they couldn't philosophise and had to act.

Catholic “philosophising” is supposed to inform action.

[RebeccaLM]

I'm Catholic, and I don't agree with abortion, but this just seems so wrong. God forgives, why can't they?

[Goody2Shoes-x]

(Original post by ronald_mcdonald)
But that does not change that TWO BEAUTIFUL TWINS HAD THEIR LIVES TAKEN.

The mother was also 9, which would probably give her an even closer connection to the twins. She could have been both a sister and a mother to the girls. After death of course.

You don't understand the sanctity of life. We have no right over it, no matter the circumstances. You have a sick mind to think we can abort two beautiful twins in order to save a girl.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12
"11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

You realise the twins would likely have died as well anyway? Twins don't carry to term in normal pregnancies, there is no way they'd have lasted in this case.... So you would rather THREE blameless, dead children?

Abortion is a very tricky subject and everybody is entitled to their opinion - but I thought the entire point of Christianity was to emphasise forgiveness and compassion. So it seems the actual perpetrator of violence, the rapist, is being forgiven, as he has not been excommunicated, but the victims of his cruelties, and in some cases, the saviour of this nine year old girls' life, are being punished? Would you please explain the reasoning behind this?

Or is it just a case of "You had an abortion, never mind the factors behind it, you're evvvvvvvil, no going to Heaven for you!"

[daydreamnation]

(Original post by Bardamu)
I think people need to calm down for a moment. Evidently, none of you are Catholic. That doesn't mean that you can't consider the Catholic viewpoint.

Those twins were nine year old girls too. Not literally, but the sanctity of life is inviolable. The three lives were of equal value. Just for a moment, pretend that you have the two nine year old girls on one hand, and one nine year old girl on the other. What would you do, within the context of this hypothetical situation?

lol at someone who follows the most sensationalising religion in the world telling people to 'calm down'. evidently im not catholic. i HAVE considered the catholic view point. its completely RADGED. that's why im not catholic.

[Trolololololol]

Good for them. At least there are still some sane people in the world. I'm not a Catholic but I applaud their efforts to reign in the loss of morals.

[Bardamu]

(Original post by daydreamnation)
lol at someone who follows the most sensationalising religion in the world telling people to 'calm down'. evidently im not catholic. i HAVE considered the catholic view point. its completely RADGED. that's why im not catholic.

Of course. How I dare I try to have a reasonable discussion, rather than trying to whip up hysteria in an already intolerant age.
Yes, I said that.
You may have considered it, but I doubt that you've understood it.

[Mazzini]

Yet another PR fail by the Vatican.

[simonbellringer]

(Original post by ronald_mcdonald)
The Catholic Church was in the right here. No matter the circumstances you cannot excuse the sanctity of life.

As a great man once said, "A person's a person, no matter how small".

Sure her stepfather raped her, but what is more shocking is the fact that these beautiful twins have had their lives taken away from them horribly. It is inexcusable and the Pope has my full support. No matter how cruelly you distort life, it is even worse to take it away.

so you'd have let the 9-year old die and have the twins live, even though they mightn't have? Something is wrong with you. And was the Church in the right not to excommunicate the rapist?!

[daydreamnation]

(Original post by Bardamu)
Of course. How I dare I try to have a reasonable discussion, rather than trying to whip up hysteria in an already intolerant age.
Yes, I said that.
You may have considered it, but I doubt that you've understood it.

yeah, any age where the catholic church had the monopoly on morality was so much more reasonable and tolerant than today. are you tripping or what.
oh no, someone gets the gist of your backwards ideas but doesnt agree with them...it just means we 'dont understand' them! please.
the foundations of your religions ability to go forth and multiply to bring more idiots into the church is that you recruit people in the third world with barely enough education to spell their own name and you get them to breed like rabbits and you do it en masse, laying waste to countries and civilisations. you are the lingering farts of the roman empire. you are the recurring fungal infection of the mafia. you hold on to your traditions and superstitions like somebody with diarhhea sitting on a perfectly good toilet. let them go.

[Bardamu]

(Original post by daydreamnation)
yeah, any age where the catholic church had the monopoly on morality was so much more reasonable and tolerant than today. are you tripping or what.
oh no, someone gets the gist of your backwards ideas but doesnt agree with them...it just means we 'dont understand' them! please.
the foundations of your religions ability to go forth and multiply to bring more idiots into the church is that you recruit people in the third world with barely enough education to spell their own name and you get them to breed like rabbits and you do it en masse, laying waste to countries and civilisations. you are the lingering farts of the roman empire. you are the recurring fungal infection of the mafia. you hold on to your traditions and superstitions like somebody with diarhhea sitting on a perfectly good toilet. let them go.

I didn't say that, or even that I agree with Catholic teachings, which proves my point about hysteria and intolerance. You just dived on me. Your rabid attack is exactly what I'm talking about.

“The gist” is not enough. There aren't vast swathes of theological texts written for fun. You don't understand, as you've shown. You disagree about abortion, so obviously Catholicism is morally bankrupt... Your mind is as closed as any fundamentalist's. You don't care about truth or reason or debate. You only seem to be interested in peddling your own form of dogma. Atheism's simply a more fashionable religion at the moment, so you're buying into it and flaunting it like some glittering bauble, some pretty little intellectual accessory.

Taking God's word to those that need it most is a good thing, spin it how you will.

Poor quality writing. Surely constipation would be a more effective metaphor?

[ronald_mcdonald]

(Original post by simonbellringer)
so you'd have let the 9-year old die and have the twins live, even though they mightn't have? Something is wrong with you. And was the Church in the right not to excommunicate the rapist?!

Don't blame me for your mind's inability to comprehend justice.

[Bardamu]

(Original post by simonbellringer)
so you'd have let the 9-year old die and have the twins live, even though they mightn't have? Something is wrong with you. And was the Church in the right not to excommunicate the rapist?!

Alleged rapist. Innocent until proven guilty, no?

[Tullia]

(Original post by Bardamu)
Catholic “philosophising” is supposed to inform action.

Evidently, you were correct about me not being Catholic, and so you must also be correct about this.

[The_Lonely_Goatherd]

I'm quite bemused by this whole situation, I have to say. If continuing the pregnancy was endangering the life of the mother, then under the CCC it is permissible to have an abortion, due to the doctrine of double effect (which I believe was instituted by St Thomas Aquinas). Clearly either some misinformation floating about or (more likely) some very distorted form of Catholicism being practised here

[daydreamnation]

(Original post by Bardamu)
Alleged rapist. Innocent until proven guilty, no?

he confessed. this outstanding member of the catholic church confessed after being caught running away.

whats your definition of 'those who need it most'? it seems to me they just happen to be the weakest and most vulnerable, easily swayed by the few crumbs thrown their way that the church calls 'charity'.

there have been atheists before christianity and there will be atheists long after its buggered off. atheism is 'fashionable' now because in the past you got murdered, persecuted etc for suggesting god didnt exist. you got the same if you were of any religion other than the 'fashionable' one, which in the west for a good few thousand years has been catholicism. to the catholic church it seems heinous crimes against humanity are only acceptable if done in the name of god.
also those swathes of theological texts are not written or quoted for the sake of your average person. theyre still written and read in latin ffs. its just bureaucracy for the sake of a few who can pat each other on the back and know nothing about being a good person without a list as long as your arm telling them what to do. what did jesus know about theological texts? he didnt write anything down. i doubt he gave a **** about them. i doubt he thought thered be a bunch of bastards that arent even jews bending his words on an international scale thousands of years later to justify all manner of bull****.

[Bardamu]

(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
I'm quite bemused by this whole situation, I have to say. If continuing the pregnancy was endangering the life of the mother, then under the CCC it is permissible to have an abortion, due to the doctrine of double effect (which I believe was instituted by St Thomas Aquinas). Clearly either some misinformation floating about or (more likely) some very distorted form of Catholicism being practised here

CCC 2271: Since the first century the Chirch has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willied either as an ends or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law: You shall bot kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.

CCC 2272: Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offence. The Church attaches the canonical crime of excommunication to this crime against human life.

CCC 2274: Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo mist be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

The doctrine of double effect applies to a morally good act with evil consequences, as well as good (double effect, see?). Abortion is murder, therefore evil, and thus DDE is not applicable. It's good to see a more reasoned approach though.

[Bardamu]

(Original post by daydreamnation)
he confessed. this outstanding member of the catholic church confessed after being caught running away.

whats your definition of 'those who need it most'? it seems to me they just happen to be the weakest and most vulnerable, easily swayed by the few crumbs thrown their way that the church calls 'charity'.

there have been atheists before christianity and there will be atheists long after its buggered off. atheism is 'fashionable' now because in the past you got murdered, persecuted etc for suggesting god didnt exist. you got the same if you were of any religion other than the 'fashionable' one, which in the west for a good few thousand years has been catholicism. to the catholic church it seems heinous crimes against humanity are only acceptable if done in the name of god.
also those swathes of theological texts are not written or quoted for the sake of your average person. theyre still written and read in latin ffs. its just bureaucracy for the sake of a few who can pat each other on the back and know nothing about being a good person without a list as long as your arm telling them what to do. what did jesus know about theological texts? he didnt write anything down. i doubt he gave a **** about them. i doubt he thought thered be a bunch of bastards that arent even jews bending his words on an international scale thousands of years later to justify all manner of bull****.

The article doesn't say that. It says that he was arrested “apparently” trying to escape the country and that he is now in custody.

Well, everyone. The weak and the vulnerable are certainly in need.

Atheism is fashionable now because it's often seen as a way to rebel against your parents and easily take the intellectual high ground. Catholics have been persecuted in many parts of the West for hundreds of years. Of course, that's a matter of fashion. What are you talking about? Almost all works are available in English... They're almost all on Amazon.

And you know how to be good because... you've absorbed, through a sort of cultural osmosis, Judeo-Christian ethics, whether you like it or not. Without God, there is no morality.

The texts are necessary to relay and intepret the teachings of Jesus. Word of mouth doesn't cut it when we're talking about thousands of years.