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£50k in benefits?? Well here's how.... all you need is headaches and a bunch of brats

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    (Original post by Herr)
    Evidence for that 70b figure please.Preferably academic or from ONS or a reputable source.
    I first came across the figure in a book (Owen Jones' "Chavs", in case anyone's interested). While it may not be from the ONS, here: http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...lion-a-year-2/
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    (Original post by alexsasg)
    I first came across the figure in a book (Owen Jones' "Chavs", in case anyone's interested). While it may not be from the ONS, here: http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...lion-a-year-2/
    Speculative writings mostly. If he knew there was 70b in tax evasion he should be furnishing the proof to HMRC and not just writing about it.
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    (Original post by redpanda41)
    So you propose taking children away from low earners?
    Newsflash.... most people on benefits are working...
    No only from parents who's sole income comes from benefits, but who have no real reason why they cannot work.

    (Original post by Joinedup)
    i think your suggestion would be more of a punishment on the kids... and wouldn't save much money really unless you intend to starve them.
    Yeah I agree actually, it isn't very nice on the children either way, on the one hand being taken away from your parents isnt nice, but then neither is living on a pitance because your parent chose not to work. It wouldn't save any money, but it might disuade the group of people who think it is ok to have a child when they know they cant afford it, because the government will pay.

    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    So you think the solution is to put even more pressure on an already stretched social services system?
    The ideal solution would be to educate the women who are having children when they can't afford it. It would be better if women knew that they ought to take care of their bodies, and make wise contraception choices when they are not in a situation to pay for a child.

    Of course it is not possible to snatch children away from their parents, because their parents claim benefits rather than work. I understand the age-old argument of "I have two kids and live off benefits, but if I worked i would pay so much in childcare I would only make an extra £xx per month which isn't worth it". But if those women had chosen to wait until they had a stable home, patner and income before having children, then they wouldn't be in your stereotypical "young single-mum and on the dole" situation.

    But as with everything there is always exceptions, and the difficult thing about benefit rationing, is you cant have a one rule fits all policy, otherwise those that genuinely need it and have no other choice, will struggle to survive.
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    (Original post by f1mad)
    Bull ****.

    Pics or such an event did not occur, nor does it exist.
    Apologies for the belated reply. I have been away. Anyway........

    You are asking me to post pictures of my friend's family living in a particular house? How about no? Good luck in your stalking goals of 2012.

    However the stock of NHHT (for example) and their locations is freely available to view online and you can crosscheck the roads on Zoopla etc. This is not my friend's HA but it will show you that 800k isn't that rare for council properties in London.

    What if one has a family of 4+ in SW5? No chance you will get anything less than like 750k+.
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    (Original post by Tycho)
    The tax system is quite unfair anyway, so I'm not surprised some people want to dodge taxes - and I'm not talking about the rich. Any small private limited company now no longer receives a tax-free allowance on corporation tax. That's 20% of any profits immediately, which really screws their growth. On top of that the company Directors then need to pay another 20% on anything they personally take from the business. So basically, any company Director - even those in small companies - has to pay 40% tax before he gets anything in his own pocket.

    That's robbery.
    I like this example, so I'll run with it.

    Say the business is run by its owner (as is common with small businesses.) His company makes £500k of extra profit one year, and he decides to take 10% of that as a bonus to get himself a new car.

    So £50k then.
    No.

    Of that £500k, £100k goes straight to the taxman in corporation tax. So £40k for the car, not too shabby. Except our businessman has yet to pay income tax on his bonus. Say goodbye to another £16k then NI at 12%, taking another £4800. So he ends up with £19,200 of his notional £50k bonus while the taxman takes the remaining £30,800.

    To take it back to the car analogy, and Audi specifically, instead of him driving a new A8, he's in an A3 and the taxman has enough for an A6.

    Effective tax rate: 61.6%.

    Is it any wonder people avoid tax?
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    (Original post by Herr)
    Little wonder the HM Government has such a huge budget deficit.

    Pictures here
    It's hardly the fault of ALL THESE FAMILIES with their 50K benefits that the government has a huge budget deficit. :rolleyes:
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    That case is a very extreme example of what the Government would like you to believe occurs in every family that claim benefits.

    A substantial percentage of people who receive housing benefit do actually work (on minimum wage i mean), but with a flat from a private landlord costing £100 p/w to rent, people simply can't afford them.

    I'm not excusing that case^, but as someone mentioned above, tax aversion is as much a problem, yet the Government (i.e. Conservatives) don't put as much emphasis on it. :curious: Both are problems that need resolving.
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    Listen you middle class twonks that probably don't live anywhere near a council estate, let alone being surrounded by them like in the North. In my honest opinion, I would say that 50% of the people on benefits, and in government housing on the estate 75 yards from me. My grandad has also lived on an estate for years, except he isn't on benefits, and actually bought the house from the government in the 70's, and he says almost ever person he sees coming and going are complete liars. Over about 5 years he's had 3 neighbours, all of them on benefits, lots of kids, have fance gadgets, massive TV's, SKY, a reasonable mid priced car .. yeah they really fit the stereotype, and all of them have claimed they have some physical problem and can't work, yet my grandad sees them, they are all as fit as a fiddle, can walk, run, ride bikes, then when it comes to a government visit, then the crutches, bent backs and limping come out.

    If you claim that "the majority aren't even cheating", I will agree with you, but what I will say is the % figure is far higher than what the government claim.
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    (Original post by prog2djent)
    Listen you middle class twonks that probably don't live anywhere near a council estate, let alone being surrounded by them like in the North. In my honest opinion, I would say that 50% of the people on benefits, and in government housing on the estate 75 yards from me. My grandad has also lived on an estate for years, except he isn't on benefits, and actually bought the house from the government in the 70's, and he says almost ever person he sees coming and going are complete liars. Over about 5 years he's had 3 neighbours, all of them on benefits, lots of kids, have fance gadgets, massive TV's, SKY, a reasonable mid priced car .. yeah they really fit the stereotype, and all of them have claimed they have some physical problem and can't work, yet my grandad sees them, they are all as fit as a fiddle, can walk, run, ride bikes, then when it comes to a government visit, then the crutches, bent backs and limping come out.

    If you claim that "the majority aren't even cheating", I will agree with you, but what I will say is the % figure is far higher than what the government claim.
    Why aggro at the middle class? I'd expect it to be the other working class who'd be defending them?
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    (Original post by dinrah04)
    Why aggro at the middle class? I'd expect it to be the other working class who'd be defending them?
    The working class certainly don't defend them, the only people that do are typically middle class snooty "liberals" (don't really like to throw that term around a lot since most aren't actually liberals) who live nowhere near these people and are happy in their out of town suburbs in detached or semi detached houses, or are in the city in some snazzy apartment (otherwise known as Guardian journalists hahahaahaha), especially in the south. In my expirience, the working class despise these people beacuse, whilst they are working hard, everyday, often both parents, to just to survive, people on benefits can do it for free, yet both live in similar houses, have similar cars and similar material possessions. I guess its because some portion of the working class still hold the honesty and dignity to heart. And you find that many working class are the ones moaning about them, and complaining the daily mail or the Sun. That's right, I just said that, the DM and the SUN are primarily read by working class people, its only middle class snooty "liberals" who think these papers are read by middle class englandeers, scared of immigrants and working class people. Could you picture dave the mechanic (my local mechanic is actually called dave haha) tucking into a full english and opening up the Guardian wondering about how its so sad that everyone except middle class snooty liberals are racist, or benefit cheats don't exist, and its bad to criticise those on benefits, because they are (somehow) a victim of the system?
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    Socialism :adore:
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    (Original post by prog2djent)
    The working class certainly don't defend them, the only people that do are typically middle class snooty "liberals" (don't really like to throw that term around a lot since most aren't actually liberals) who live nowhere near these people and are happy in their out of town suburbs in detached or semi detached houses, or are in the city in some snazzy apartment (otherwise known as Guardian journalists hahahaahaha), especially in the south. In my expirience, the working class despise these people beacuse, whilst they are working hard, everyday, often both parents, to just to survive, people on benefits can do it for free, yet both live in similar houses, have similar cars and similar material possessions. I guess its because some portion of the working class still hold the honesty and dignity to heart. And you find that many working class are the ones moaning about them, and complaining the daily mail or the Sun. That's right, I just said that, the DM and the SUN are primarily read by working class people, its only middle class snooty "liberals" who think these papers are read by middle class englandeers, scared of immigrants and working class people. Could you picture dave the mechanic (my local mechanic is actually called dave haha) tucking into a full english and opening up the Guardian wondering about how its so sad that everyone except middle class snooty liberals are racist, or benefit cheats don't exist, and its bad to criticise those on benefits, because they are (somehow) a victim of the system?
    It must be pretty different up North, but I was under most of the middle class were right wingers (at least people I know). I thought it was a general consensus that tabloid papers were commonly read by the Working Class. Hmm that's just my knowledge of it though.
    Even the name annoys me, as if the Middle Class don't work hard?
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    (Original post by dinrah04)
    It must be pretty different up North, but I was under most of the middle class were right wingers (at least people I know). I thought it was a general consensus that tabloid papers were commonly read by the Working Class. Hmm that's just my knowledge of it though.
    Even the name annoys me, as if the Middle Class don't work hard?
    Really, this is speaking from expirience of course, so I am generalising for the whole of it.

    My college is known to be very liberal-left (Greenhead), and almost everyone that went was like this, the only people I knew who were obviuosly right wing were those in my Economics and Business studies classes, whereas Sociology, Politics, Geography and (apparently) History was full of self-styled revolutionary socialists, or atleast middle class lefty liberals.

    In my area, my friends, and my family and their friends, are all pretty much working, or lower middle class, are centre-left or centre-right, and all socially conservative, atleast a little.

    Which is another thing the snooty liberal middle class don't get, that quite a large chunk of the working class, especially in the North and in industrialised areas, is that they are conservative, the working class are naturally conservative. They don't necassarily vote for the tories, in fact, hardly any do, for obvious reasons, but they don't want social change, they don't like mass immigration, they are suspicious of people who aren't like them, they like the police, army, and traditionalist institutions, dislike socialists and socialism, but also dislike big business and "the city", despise political correctness, are patriotic, and value honesty, hard work and reward (money, material items, holidays etc).
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    (Original post by . . .)
    Some people have kids when they are financially able they then lose their job and cannot afford to bring them up so they need help. They cannot look into the future they don't know if they will lose their job or not.
    this can be solved by only giving the child related money to people who have contributed enough

    bingo

    im a parent and me and my gf cant afford to have another child and provide it with all we do our girl now, aswell as the amount of time we think we would need to be a good parent to both

    this is due to working and providing for our family ourselves

    it annoys me that i can afford one child but others like this who do sod all have 10

    they should have some of their kids taken into care, 12 people in a 5 bedroom house is way too crowded and no way should they be given a bigger house
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    (Original post by Bright.Inspiration.)
    Yes the system is at fault. But they CHOSE to go on benefits.
    My parents are both educated and could easily have gone on benefits when we were going through a tough time, but they chose to get small jobs at shops etc to get by, after which they went on to get good jobs thankfully. But through the tough time, they never even condsidered going on benefits becasue they have self respect and a proper work ethic.
    It's not quite that simple: your parents are professional people, so it is better for them to get their money by continuing to work, and plugging the gap in their CV. Conversely, a lifelong benefit claimant, even one with the best intentions, is never going to get a job past a certain age as they will have had so little work experience. So it's more like your parents have invested in this one social-financial model and the parents in the article have invested in another.

    Of course, their situation is much more precarious, because at any time the government could reduce their allocations, see next year's incoming reforms for more information. So they are taking on a high value of risk in exchange for a cushier deal here and now.

    Let's remember how 50k divided by 12 is only 4k, hardly enough to bring up kids on, though there will be lots of reuse of items to save money, it's hardly luxury, is it? It's also not like they will have the large five-bedroom house to show for it at the end, like your parents will, because they're renting off the council.
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    You know the benefits system is ****ed up when all the boys are wearing WWE t-shirts which are around 40 quid a pop.
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    (Original post by Arekkusu)

    Let's remember how 50k divided by 12 is only 4k, hardly enough to bring up kids on, though there will be lots of reuse of items to save money, it's hardly luxury, is it? It's also not like they will have the large five-bedroom house to show for it at the end, like your parents will, because they're renting off the council.
    if they're in a 5 bedroom house, chances are the rent and council tax is high. So after the council tax and rent, it may only be 2.5k per person, which isn't a lot.

    The thread title is misleading. You can't get benefits for a headache. You can get benefits due to migraine. And yes, I know someone who does get benefits for migraine. But it is nigh on impossible (been there, done that) to work during an attack. I can't even stay awake, let alone work.
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    As someone who lives on a council area and has been on JSA (Not through choice I assure you) I can vouch for the fact that the vast majority of JSA are either the real vicky pollard types or (like I was) over priviliged kids from middle classes that think certain jobs are beneath them.

    And don't get me started on DLA...

    The welfare system needs a much more drastic reform, with greater cuts. And this is someone who's working in the disability sector.
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    The sad thing is that the family can't afford to live on minimum wages so they'll lose pretty much all the children because they can't afford to maintain it. Even if she works 80 hour weeks, she'll only net 25k? If that... At least she is doing charity work, which shows she isn't just drinking her earnings away. Don't get me wrong, I hate people like this and I de-friended a friend because he's been on the dole for 5 years and I'm fed up of paying so much tax for these wastes. It's more the govenments fault.
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    Don't hate the player hate the game. It's totally outrageous our so called 'right wing' gov allows this to happen. The only benefits should be given to those in need. If all benefits were scraped there would be a lot more people willing and now able to work...

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