If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?
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If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?I was thinking about how the Nazis managed to control almost all of Europe, France in the west to Russia in the east, Norway in the north to Greece in the south and yet we, with our vastly superior technology cannot tame Afghanistan and are on the verge of pulling out and defeat to the Taliban. OK yes there were resitance groups in most of the countries the Germans occupied, but they were at no point ever posing a serious problem to them.
In the present day, where human rights are univerally accepted, due process is afforded to criminals, there's a whole raft of international law, the UN, does this make occupying a foreign country pretty much impossible? The Germans simply ignored all of that and I'm saying that's what got them results.
If we copied their blueprint and said that for every British/American soldier killed by the Taliban, we'd round up 50 civilians and have them shot, anyone who could potential be dangerous was sent away to a forced labour camp, for example Islamists and that any captured Taliban would be summarily executed, would we be in a position today where the Taliban had simply given up and the whole population was subservient?
Of course I don't advocate that policy because many innocent people would be killed, ironically most of them would probably have been oppressed by the Taliban, but was that the key to the Nazis success and can you not occupy a hostile country successfully and afford human rights at the same time? The evidence appears to be that you cannot.Last edited by 122025278; 29-05-2012 at 14:08. -
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?Yeh, because it all worked out so well for the Nazis?
We currently are occupying Afghanistan and Iraq while abiding by human rights so you clearly can. Would it be easier if we were willing to massacre civilians? No, the Nazis did not successfully enslave Europe, the resistances that fought against them played a vital role in their downfall and one thing that is a constant throughout history is that trying to enslave a foreign country by fear very rarely works out well. -
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?Well no, because the problem is that the Islamists are fighting far dirtier than any of the resistance forces did. They are planting mines and blowing themselves up in crowded market with absolutely zero respect for human/civilian life because whatever they do in the warped mind of Muslims and the left is our fault for being there in the first place. If the French had behaved like total mentalists then i'm sure the Nazi's tactics wouldn't have worked.
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?Yes in a military sense eventually we would prevail (But we need to fight a total war, with almost no regard for civilian's lives, so much worse than the Nazis). But politicians would lose the war far before that, and much of the reason we went there would be lost.
Last edited by S1L3NTPR3Y; 29-05-2012 at 14:32. -
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?(Original post by S1L3NTPR3Y)
Yes in a military sense eventually we would prevail (But we need to fight a total war, with almost no regard for civilian's lives, so much worse than the Nazis). But politicians would lose the war far before that, and much of the reason we went there would be lost.
The reason being...? -
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?Well if you bomb every single village in Afghanistan using chemical and biological weapons then you can win but, isn't a "hearts and minds program". And part of the reason we went into Afghanistan was for the human rights of the people.(Original post by sh'bobble_x)
The reason being...? -
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?Your way of thinking is actually sick. How can you possibly even condense the whole of the Islamic population to 'mentalists' who have 'zero respect for human life'?! What about the soldiers all of the world who rape and MURDER innocent little girls, becuase they know they can get away with it?! It is people like you who get me so angry!! No it is not all British or CHRISTIAN troops that do that, and so you cannot say that all afghan or MUSLIM troops are the same! I respect every troop until he attacks an innocent party. I am talking Muslim and non-muslim here, so DO NOT give me the example of 9/11 or 7/7, I am not defending them!!! But you cannot defend guilty members of a respected status!(Original post by Elipsis)
Well no, because the problem is that the Islamists are fighting far dirtier than any of the resistance forces did. They are planting mines and blowing themselves up in crowded market with absolutely zero respect for human/civilian life because whatever they do in the warped mind of Muslims and the left is our fault for being there in the first place. If the French had behaved like total mentalists then i'm sure the Nazi's tactics wouldn't have worked.
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?There was a TV programme on yesterday which gave a brilliant history of Afghanistan and previous occupations. You should attempt to find/watch it.(Original post by 122025278)
I was thinking about how the Nazis managed to control almost all of Europe, France in the west to Russia in the east, Norway in the north to Greece in the south and yet we, with our vastly superior technology cannot tame Afghanistan and are on the verge of pulling out and defeat to the Taliban. OK yes there were resitance groups in most of the countries the Germans occupied, but they were at no point ever posing a serious problem to them.
In the present day, where human rights are univerally accepted, due process is afforded to criminals, there's a whole raft of international law, the UN, does this make occupying a foreign country pretty much impossible? The Germans simply ignored all of that and I'm saying that's what got them results.
If we copied their blueprint and said that for every British/American soldier killed by the Taliban, we'd round up 50 civilians and have them shot, anyone who could potential be dangerous was sent away to a forced labour camp, for example Islamists and that any captured Taliban would be summarily executed, would we be in a position today where the Taliban had simply given up and the whole population was subservient?
Of course I don't advocate that policy because many innocent people would be killed, ironically most of them would probably have been oppressed by the Taliban, but was that the key to the Nazis success and can you not occupy a hostile country successfully and afford human rights at the same time? The evidence appears to be that you cannot.
The suggestion you make would never work and would just lead to even more violence and death.
Surely by your logic it would be easier to just send a nuclear attack over there? -
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?Was that not the goal for Iraq, where Saddam Hussein was? Afghanistan was pretty much okay. The Americans and UK governments CREATED the Taliban to fight off the Russians. WHen their use was no longer required, they caused the whole world to turn against them! WHen they needed the oil!(Original post by S1L3NTPR3Y)
Well if you bomb every single village in Afghanistan using chemical and biological weapons then you can win but, isn't a "hearts and minds program". And part of the reason we went into Afghanistan was for the human rights of the people.
I am not a supporter of wars and this is one of those wars that was completely unjust and has led to the killings of millions of innocent people! Regardless of their religion or race - it was not our call to make; it was wrong. -
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?Are you some kind of Islamist apologist? lol(Original post by sh'bobble_x)
Was that not the goal for Iraq, where Saddam Hussein was? Afghanistan was pretty much okay. The Americans and UK governments CREATED the Taliban to fight off the Russians. WHen their use was no longer required, they caused the whole world to turn against them! WHen they needed the oil!
I am not a supporter of wars and this is one of those wars that was completely unjust and has led to the killings of millions of innocent people! Regardless of their religion or race - it was not our call to make; it was wrong.
Oil in Afghanistan? Haha, it has no natural resources, no oil, hardly any fertile ground, landlocked, no minerals, the list goes on and on. Your just pedalling the Iraq myth. Next you'll be mentioning secret deals etc. and Bush! It's always Bush.
Millions of innocent people killed in Afghanistan? 99.9% of those killed in Afghanistan have been killed by Islamists and the Taliban, they don't mind killing their own people. If one car bomb injures an American/British soldier but kills 50 Afghans, that's a good return for them. BTW those 50 dead, are the Talibans fault NOT ours. -
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?I am an apologist of no kind. I just stand for human rights; I have not specified whether I am a Muslim or a Christian; whether I am white, black or asian, this is what I believe. There was a fair deal of oil, and gold in Afghanistan - of course there is nothing left, we and the Americans have worked our hardest, and successfully, to drain them of everything!(Original post by 122025278)
Are you some kind of Islamist apologist? lol
Oil in Afghanistan? Haha, it has no natural resources, no oil, hardly any fertile ground, landlocked, no minerals, the list goes on and on. Your just pedalling the Iraq myth. Next you'll be mentioning secret deals etc. and Bush! It's always Bush.
Millions of innocent people killed in Afghanistan? 99.9% of those killed in Afghanistan have been killed by Islamists and the Taliban, they don't mind killing their own people. If one car bomb injures an American/British soldier but kills 50 Afghans, that's a good return for them. BTW those 50 dead, are the Talibans fault NOT ours.
Myth?? It's not a myth, the evidence is there? WHat have we done for that country or any of those countries, other than turned them into war lands and turmoil!!
I don't understand you! How can you possibly even say that? THe nerve, that 99.9% were killed by the Taliban?! God knows what you've been watching, but you need to see the damage that we have caused! I'm am not wishing any harm upon any British/American soldier, but it is wrong to say that those 50 are worthy of dying! What have they ever done to ANY of us??!!
Okay, I'll agree with you for arguments sake, but if we weren't they wouldn't have died. SO directly or indirectly, it is OUR fault. -
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?This programme explained the background to the war, it's really interesting I suggest you watch it :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...art_Episode_1/ -
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?This was good - thanks(Original post by arnoob)
This programme explained the background to the war, it's really interesting I suggest you watch it :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...art_Episode_1/
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Re: If we ran Afghanistan like the Nazis ran Europe, would it be over?LOL We force the Taleban to set of car bombs which will kill their own people? Hahaha(Original post by sh'bobble_x)
I am an apologist of no kind. I just stand for human rights; I have not specified whether I am a Muslim or a Christian; whether I am white, black or asian, this is what I believe. There was a fair deal of oil, and gold in Afghanistan - of course there is nothing left, we and the Americans have worked our hardest, and successfully, to drain them of everything!
Myth?? It's not a myth, the evidence is there? WHat have we done for that country or any of those countries, other than turned them into war lands and turmoil!!
I don't understand you! How can you possibly even say that? THe nerve, that 99.9% were killed by the Taliban?! God knows what you've been watching, but you need to see the damage that we have caused! I'm am not wishing any harm upon any British/American soldier, but it is wrong to say that those 50 are worthy of dying! What have they ever done to ANY of us??!!
Okay, I'll agree with you for arguments sake, but if we weren't they wouldn't have died. SO directly or indirectly, it is OUR fault.
That's like saying it was Americas fault for 9/11, if only they hadn't built those towers so high, planes wouldn't have had to be flown into them!
